The Administration Thread

[SamUltraRam]

From 24th January

The EFL said on Monday: "Following positive developments over the course of the weekend, a proposed meeting involving the EFL and political stakeholders to discuss the ongoing challenges at Derby County set for later today has been postponed to allow for additional progress to be made by the administrators.

"It is now expected that the league and the administrators will sit down in the next 24 hours as we seek to resolve the outstanding issues to the satisfaction of all parties."

1 week later the transfer deadline happens, more DCFC playing staff leave

2 days after the transfer deadline comes this latest statement containing their belief that MFC & WWFC claims WILL be football debt, which they previously wouldn't rule on.

Suspicious ??

[Archie]

18 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Don't get the scenario......Mel has left us in this position, he should find a solution. Reducing the asking price for the stadium or not asking anything would be nice. And he should pay the fees of the Administrators too.....

They're different points. Agree, most of this is down to Morris's utter incompetence. You were suggesting handing over money to the two parasite clubs based on their ridiculous claims. I firmly believe we shouldn't. The claims are laughable to say the least. Paying these is an admission of guilt and sets a precedence for the whole of football. In effect hammering in the final nails in its coffin.

Edited February 4, 2022 by Archie

[jono]

Seriously, without our Rams scarfs on. What have Gibson and the others got on the EFL ? He has his view as we all do but I see nothing in the EFL’s pronouncements that sound remotely even handed. It just can’t be right, it just doesn’t add up

[RadioactiveWaste]

Having slept on it,

It might be the case the the EFL's point of view is that they can't have it accepted that administration is seen as a way to avoid having to fight/arbitrate/mediate claims for damages.

Which is why they mentioned the Boro claim was started prior to administration.

It's just that it was also launched when DCFC had only been found to have been guilty of inadequate notes in the accounts...far less than the systemically cheating for years claim of Stephen Mr Gibson Steve or a crime that directly denied Middlesbrough a play off place.

Now, taking my Derby County hat off, could the circumstances look like Mel Morris put the club into administration to avoid having to fight or settle the claims from Boro and Wycombe? It could read that way, and given Mel's Byzantine company structures and Stephen Pearce's accounting tricks, the "optics" aren't great - hence the big push to say it was the covid that done it - just as fans were being allowed back and costs were massively reduced at the club?

I think we can all buy it that Mel Morris has not been playing with a straight bat.

For new ownership, it's a matter of cost - they won't particularly care about Mel's misdeeds beyond what it cost them. For us, it's about the pride and reputation of our club.

I know I don't want a settlement out of not wanting the stain of legitimising Gibson's claims and the language around them. Settle and it's fans of every other club banging on about systemically cheating for years for decades.

God I hate Mel Morris, I hate Steve Gibson, I hate Stephen Pearce, I hate the EFL and I football. Couhig is just an annoyance, like when you get Steve Gibson on your shoe.

Still ducking love Derby.

 

[teddyb16]

Has anyone done the math on Boro's FFP for the last 3 years? They have had a splurge this year. Wouldn't surprise menif they need 5 mill from usbto bring them under the threshold. The Wycombe claim is purely him on the bandwagon. EFL are accountable there for not applying the points deduction 

[Gritstone Tup]

2 hours ago, Gaspode said:

Gibson demanded to be told details of how much money was proposed to go to creditors including HMRC in the statement put out by Boro (which is absolutely none of his business). Now the EFL want all main creditors and HMRC in a room with Boro to divvy up any money that’s available….

Those of a suspicious and cynical outlook may wonder if there has been an element of collusion between the two parties……

Its non of Boro’s business!?

Isn’t it? Or is it everyone’s business?

I believe the EFL are run like a committee. They represent the views of all its members on a majority basis. The rules and regulations are drawn up, altered and voted through by all of the member clubs. There won’t be total agreement all of the time but it will only need a majority or designated percentage to make a rule. At every meeting or ongoing dispute all members will be kept updated and in our case a daily blow by blow account. The EFL are its members nothing will be hidden from any of them. We had an opportunity through the administrators to start the relationship again, distance ourselves from Mel Morris, apologise, show some humility and say how can we make this right and regain the confidence of all the other members. The administrator didn’t take that opportunity and just kept on fighting and taking Mels arrogant stance because imho Mel is pulling the admins strings!

If you’re in a room with 72 people you’ve previously got on with and they all turn against you, it’s more than likely your fault!

[i-Ram]

11 minutes ago, Curtains said:

We will see. .

Got to say at the moment I don’t think EFL will take ant notice of a Court decision.

They will just do something else. 

Have a sing along Curtains ?

 

[Jimbo Ram]

2 minutes ago, Archie said:

They're different points. Agree, most of this is down to Morris's utter incompetence. You were suggesting handing over money to the two parasite clubs based on their ridiculous claims. I firmly believe we shouldn't. The claims are laughable to say the least. Paying these is an admission of guilt and sets a precedence for the whole of football. In effect hammering in the final nails in the coffin.

No I wasn't, their claims are totally ludicrous but we are where we are. The weak, incompetent and possibly corrupt EFL are going along with the nonsense so I was suggesting Mel be the bigger man and do a couple of things that could bring this time consuming, stressful and ridiculous saga to an end....

[Gaspode]

2 minutes ago, jono said:

Seriously, without our Rams scarfs on. What have Gibson and the others got on the EFL ? He has his view as we all do but I see nothing in the EFL’s pronouncements that sound remotely even handed. It just can’t be right, it just doesn’t add up

There were rumours that Gibson and Parry were best mates, but this seems (in both cases) that the clubs wanted compo from the EFL (as the EFL had done such a crap job of following their own rules) and the EFL response was to tell them they'd be better off attacking us.....

[RoyMac5]

5 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

...It might be the case the the EFL's point of view is that they can't have it accepted that administration is seen as a way to avoid having to fight/arbitrate/mediate claims for damages.

Which is why they mentioned the Boro claim was started prior to administration.

It's just that it was also launched when DCFC had only been found to have been guilty of inadequate notes in the accounts...far less than the systemically cheating for years claim of Stephen Mr Gibson Steve or a crime that directly denied Middlesbrough a play off place...

 

In which case, stop going against the laws of the land and change EFL Rules for going into administration!  

[Eatonram]

4 minutes ago, Gritstone Tup said:

Its non of Boro’s business!?

Isn’t it? Or is it everyone’s business?

I believe the EFL are run like a committee. They represent the views of all its members on a majority basis. The rules and regulations are drawn up, altered and voted through by all of the member clubs. There won’t be total agreement all of the time but it will only need a majority or designated percentage to make a rule. At every meeting or ongoing dispute all members will be kept updated and in our case a daily blow by blow account. The EFL are its members nothing will be hidden from any of them. We had an opportunity through the administrators to start the relationship again, distance ourselves from Mel Morris, apologise, show some humility and say how can we make this right and regain the confidence of all the other members. The administrator didn’t take that opportunity and just kept on fighting and taking Mels arrogant stance because imho Mel is pulling the admins strings!

If you’re in a room with 72 people you’ve previously got on with and they all turn against you, it’s more than likely your fault!

We know what the response to this would be......Give Boro and Wycombe some money. The Admins cannot legally do this unless they are legal creditors. 

[Crewton]

1 hour ago, StaffsRam said:

I like how Ryan suggests that the EFL want a “Game of Thrones style summit” - I wouldn’t be averse to the EFL encountering their own “Red Wedding” tbh…

I was thinking more along the lines of "Masque of the Red Death", what with the plague being in town ?

[kevinhectoring]

17 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Didn't someone say that Administrators have the right/power to jump the queue for High Court dates?

Far from clear that the High Court is the answer. Anyway, I'd think they can get dates at short notice in the ongoing admin proceedings, but some angles would require them to open separate (new) proceedings which could take an age. 

The dispute with M/W is arbitration - not High Court - but EFL have agreed to fast track. However there is plenty scope for Couhig and Gibson to drag their feet.  And Q has not yet taken up EFL's offer

[Eddie]

45 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

I think the big sticking point (amongst many, lol) is that if Q go to Court and ask to be able to apply Insolvency Laws then the EFL could respond by saying they'd take away our Golden Share as we're not playing by their Rules?

The problem there is that the EFL rules are not legal, and I'm not aware of any special dispensation that has been afforded to them for circumnavigating the insolvency laws.

[PistoldPete]

37 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

Time is against us, not against W/M. There are plenty of things W/M can do to take this forward or to protect their interests.  But they quite simply don’t need to just now. In trying to move this forward, Q is trying to push water uphill and so is EFl in their discussions with M/W

So EFl has said to Q: one way to address this is to have the claims heard. If you want that, we will try to fast track them

Q has not yet said ‘yes go for it’. Because they are risk averse and because if they lose it might be the end of our club and it might even be the end of their firm 

And because Q's legal duty is to protect the creditors. They don't have a choice.

[PistoldPete]

Just now, Eddie said:

The problem there is that the EFL rules are not legal, and I'm not aware of any special dispensation that has been afforded to them for circumnavigating the insolvency laws.

Exactly. I am not even sure they are applying their "rules".  They refer to "insolvency policy" , which to me sounds like guidance rather than rules. Anyway, insolvency law trumps the lot , I would hope. 

[1of4]

Can Derby County Football Club as a member of the ELF call for an extraordinary general meeting. Where the true facts of what's been happening can be given. Then the full membership can vote on how things should be progressed.

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

Far from clear that the High Court is the answer. Anyway, I'd think they can get dates at short notice in the ongoing admin proceedings, but some angles would require them to open separate (new) proceedings which could take an age. 

The dispute with M/W is arbitration - not High Court - but EFL have agreed to fast track. However there is plenty scope for Couhig and Gibson to drag their feet.  And Q has not yet taken up EFL's offer

 

Arbitration will resolve what exactly?

[Eddie]

39 minutes ago, WhiteHorseRam said:

Have to say I have a bad feeling about this now.

The salmon mousse?

[kevinhectoring]

16 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

And because Q's legal duty is to protect the creditors. They don't have a choice.

sure they have a choice. Q's decision whether to take EFL's offer of fast track is probably the hardest one they have faced. I'd guess they're currently trying to avoid having to take the decision - by attempting to persuade MM to indemnify buyers against the M/W claims. Let's hope he agrees to 'meddle' 

Edited February 4, 2022 by kevinhectoring