RoyMac5 Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 Just now, TexasRam said: So if you read what he says in the other tweet also then none of the bidders are actually in position to make a definitive bid? Not one. Its either MM and or WWFC & MFC still holding it all up. It’s about time we had complete clarity from the Admins on the position of the “bidders”, all this so called brinkmanship is now tiresome and a bit of bs. And the EFL. What happened to the 'compression' cross class Insolvency stuff that isn't in EFL regs because they aren't up to date? That is what stopped the PB being named a couple of weeks ago. Why not concentrate on getting them to update their rules? Black ('n' White) Sheep, Derby4Me, WharfedaleRam and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Spalding Ram Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 (edited) From Nixon’s Sun article @12.30. Mike Ashley is also frustrated after making an offer that meant both former owner Mel Morris and the administrators were given less. Ashley's best chance is waiting to see if the other pair fail to deliver or are fearful of the Boro and Wycombe claims as the admins seem unwilling to deal with him. …………………four more weeks of speculation, predictions, theories and just plain guesswork! Edited January 27, 2022 by Old Spalding Ram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth's left foot Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 I don’t believe for one second that we’ll go under, I too believe that there’s an agenda to get us relegated though. Expect some departures now especially Lawrence to save on his wages, apparently Bournemouth are after him. Indy, LeedsCityRam and RadioactiveWaste 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanjwitham Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 6 minutes ago, alexxxxx said: Frankly this statement concerns me. I don't think it is surprising that the efl gave us an extension. What concerns me is that all of the major hurdles are still there. Not sure why the stadium is a concern of the efl as it doesn't belong to Derby County Limited.. Unless its all horribly tied up somehow with the business? I thought they'd already agreed with hmrc so it begs the question what on earth Q have been doing. I also suspect that due to the joint statement there could be agreement on comms too going forward. The problem seems to be that Quantuma are basically stuck in the middle. It sounds like they've managed to negotiate something with Morris for the stadium and with HMRC, but the bidders have all rocked up and decided they won't pay one or both of them. Similar sort of issue with 'Boro/Wycombe. They're trying to do a massive multi-party deal with dozens of people involved, and there's just no consensus there at the moment. You get 3 to agree, then the 4th blows the whole thing up. I'm honestly not sure what Quantuma could actually do better - if HMRC won't accept less than 25%, and Ashley won't pay more than 15% (made up figures for illustrative purposes), then no amount of begging from Quantuma will bridge that gap. i-Ram, RadioactiveWaste, May Contain Nuts and 2 others 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strawhillram Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 20 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: Appleby - The money man wants the MFC/WWFC issues resolved before committing Binnies - Offer doesn't include stadium OR dealing with MFC/WWFC claims Ashley - Mel and admins have to take less than they want HMRC don't know how much they'll get without knowing what the two parasite clubs will get (if they're football creditors or not) Good simple summary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 1 minute ago, duncanjwitham said: The problem seems to be that Quantuma are basically stuck in the middle. It sounds like they've managed to negotiate something with Morris for the stadium and with HMRC, but the bidders have all rocked up and decided they won't pay one or both of them. Similar sort of issue with 'Boro/Wycombe. They're trying to do a massive multi-party deal with dozens of people involved, and there's just no consensus there at the moment. You get 3 to agree, then the 4th blows the whole thing up. I'm honestly not sure what Quantuma could actually do better - if HMRC won't accept less than 25%, and Ashley won't pay more than 15% (made up figures for illustrative purposes), then no amount of begging from Quantuma will bridge that gap. Well again the Boro/Wycombe claims could be 'compressed' to zero using the 2020 Insolvency Act - but the EFL haven't updated their regs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanjwitham Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 1 minute ago, Old Spalding Ram said: From Nixon’s Sun article @12.30. Mike Ashley is also frustrated after making an offer that meant both former owner Mel Morris and the administrators were given less. Ashley's best chance is waiting to see if the other pair fail to deliver or are fearful of the Boro and Wycombe claims as the admins seem unwilling to deal with him. …………………four more weeks of speculation, predictions, theories and just plain guesswork! I mean, if if it's genuinely the case that Ashley just isn't willing to pay what the administrators have negotiated with HMRC etc (and I'm assuming that's what Nixon means here by "administrators given less"), then is there really any point continuing with his bid? HMRC and the other creditors get to decide whether to accept the proposal or not, so why bother working with him if it'll never get past that stage? RadioactiveWaste, atherstoneram and Indy 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strawhillram Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 If the MFC and WW claims did not exist, then I think we’d have a PB and the take over be happening. HMRC debt and stadium transfer costs could be thrashed out then Sparkle and FlyBritishMidland 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanjwitham Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said: Well again the Boro/Wycombe claims could be 'compressed' to zero using the 2020 Insolvency Act - but the EFL haven't updated their regs! I'm still to see a logical reason why 'Boro and Wycombe couldn't just file new claims after we exited admin. The EFL seem very clear that there's no vetting process or anything over claims. If a club makes a claim, it either gets settled "out of court", or goes to arbitration. So what happens if they do that? We refuse to settle, go to arbitration? Can you guarantee that a LAP would accept the argument that their claims had been dealt with by compressing them to zero? I wouldn't risk £50m+ on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaffsRam Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 This feels like we’re a ****ing million miles away again. Far from the “significant progress” boIIox we were fed a few days ago. Archied, r_wilcockson and Chester40 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 So another 28 days of this mess, then probably another month extension at the end of Feb. If Morris is after more cash, it's a shame he wasn't more careful whilst bankrupting us with dire expensive signings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal is a Ram Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 24 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: Appleby - The money man wants the MFC/WWFC issues resolved before committing Binnies - Offer doesn't include stadium OR dealing with MFC/WWFC claims Ashley - Mel and admins have to take less than they want HMRC don't know how much they'll get without knowing what the two parasite clubs will get (if they're football creditors or not) Would add to this that any would still have to go through the OADT process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 4 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said: I mean, if if it's genuinely the case that Ashley just isn't willing to pay what the administrators have negotiated with HMRC etc (and I'm assuming that's what Nixon means here by "administrators given less"), then is there really any point continuing with his bid? HMRC and the other creditors get to decide whether to accept the proposal or not, so why bother working with him if it'll never get past that stage? Exactly. Whilst none of the parties want to put themselves at risk, given the insolvency framework and legal obligations on Quantuma, they are the least likely to go out on any sort of a limb to get a deal done. And the fact is Quantuma control DCFC. If it was an owner doing a deal with creditors and a bidder things could be more flexible. For Quantuma a failure to get a deal done resulting in liquidation would be a hit to their standing, however, allegations of improper action by them would be far worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 4 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said: I'm still to see a logical reason why 'Boro and Wycombe couldn't just file new claims after we exited admin. The EFL seem very clear that there's no vetting process or anything over claims. If a club makes a claim, it either gets settled "out of court", or goes to arbitration. So what happens if they do that? We refuse to settle, go to arbitration? Can you guarantee that a LAP would accept the argument that their claims had been dealt with by compressing them to zero? I wouldn't risk £50m+ on that. Well the Binnies are willing to risk it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 If Morris is meeting the council on friday as has been reported could there be a demonstration set up? Archied 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twelveincher Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 10 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said: I mean, if if it's genuinely the case that Ashley just isn't willing to pay what the administrators have negotiated with HMRC etc (and I'm assuming that's what Nixon means here by "administrators given less"), then is there really any point continuing with his bid? HMRC and the other creditors get to decide whether to accept the proposal or not, so why bother working with him if it'll never get past that stage? I take it to mean the fees for the admins services. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angieram Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 2 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said: If Morris is meeting the council on friday as has been reported could there be a demonstration set up? It's likely to be a virtual meeting rather than face to face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombo Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 It's entirely possible that the bidders are going through the owners and directors test and that is why the deadline is extended. If Quantuma have gone to the EFL and said "one of these parties is our proof of funding, when we name them preferred bidder". But they can't name one as a preferred bidder because they may not pass the test. And if they don't pass the test they're not a credible source of funding until the end of the season. So all parties go through the next hurdle, then we're in a position to make one PB by the end of Feb and use them as proof of funding. That's pure guesswork though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffLuff Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 (edited) It feels like we are where we were weeks ago. EFL need to be more pragmatic in finding a resolution with Boro and Wycombe. Stop scapegoating Derby and get them off their high horse. Administrators need to sort Mel out on the stadium. Get actual figures in place of what money is owed where so bidders know what they are buying, it’s the same thing all along It’s sh** or get off the toilet time! Edited January 27, 2022 by TuffLuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal is a Ram Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 Okay, as far as I see it: EFL - not helping by refusing to determine if Boro/Wycombe will be football creditors or not. Mel - not helping by being unwillling/unable to compromise on the stadium issue Boro/Wycombe - not helping by refusing to drop claims While I agree that Quantuma aren't being the best, they're being pulled 3 different ways by the above. dabber 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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