The Administration Thread

[RamBeauIV]

9 hours ago, Yani P said:

Would be great if the Cardiff game was a sellout..just to pay full respect to the great effort of our management and playing staff..wherever we are at that moment, relegated or still fighting it shouldn't matter..the effort and dedication shown this season deserves a full stadium to celebrate.

If it is a sellout it'll be pretty difficult to pack everyone in what with all the sombreros and Cardiff fans' snowmen's outfits.

[RipleyRich]

7 hours ago, kevinhectoring said:

Well you can assume he’s only willing to pay 30m if he’s got use of the ground. 
 

once use of the ground is factored in, the £30m is for a club that, well managed, has the potential and facilities to reach and thrive in the PL, a club which has an existing fan base of 20k and stadium capacity for a fan base of more than that. With the academy thrown in 

how is that ‘effectively nothing’ ?

I meant in terms of tangible assets.

If you go deeper the cost is significantly more than £30m due to the level of immediate investment required. And that`s what leads me into thinking about the 35% over 3 years part of my post to which your reference was just the lead in.

Taking the 35% route is a means, if the business plan works, of keeping the vast majority of his own money in his pocket.

[RipleyRich]

10 hours ago, jono said:

My only doubt about that is that the club has nothing right now, so are you suggesting that the club will be immediately profitable so it can “fund” ? 
To part with “funds” to pay something, you have to have those “funds” in the first place 

I`m no finance expert and don`t profess to be so, but the concept would appear to an idiot like me, a means of keeping more of his own money in his pocket. It obviously depends upon how payments have to be structured. Even if he only has to "top up" repayments, it maintains more of his budget for immediate investment or maybe as I suggested, doing a better deal for PP.

[angieram]

Good read, if you forgive the references to 'soccer'! 

A bit out of date already, but good to get an outside perspective. Probably more about Rooney than us, but shows what his value is on a worldwide stage.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/derby-county-engderby/story/4639853/wayne-rooney-may-manage-a-premier-league-club-one-day-right-nowhes-just-trying-to-keep-derby-county-in-business

[kevinhectoring]

1 hour ago, RipleyRich said:

I meant in terms of tangible assets.

If you go deeper the cost is significantly more than £30m due to the level of immediate investment required. And that`s what leads me into thinking about the 35% over 3 years part of my post to which your reference was just the lead in.

Taking the 35% route is a means, if the business plan works, of keeping the vast majority of his own money in his pocket.

Why is investment required, once the debts are compromised? Rooney has a handy knack of getting good players on frees, we have a strong group of youngsters whose wages won’t be busting the bank, and half the clubs in the leagues are struggling financially so the market for players’ wages has collapsed. The only cost item out of whack is Wayne’s salary and if Stretford is indeed advising CK I’m sure that will be finessed. The fan base puts us in a much stronger position relative to most championship sides, let alone div 1, once the legacy debts are addressed  

[duncanjwitham]

Under GSE, with costs cut to a very low level, we were still losing ~£7m a year.  And that was without the costs for a Cat 1 academy etc.  If we go down to League 1, that's something like a £6m drop in income purely from TV money. You probably have to assume attendances are going to be lower at that level too.  It's not rocket science to think a club of our size is going to be losing money at League 1 level, and require additional funding to cover that.  If the intention is to pay some of the debts over 3 years, then that's a cost that needs to be covered too.

It's okay saying you're paying £30m for potential, and that absolutely is why Kirchner is buying us, but that £30m alone will come nowhere close to realising that potential IMO. And that's not including signings or anything, that's purely to cover the costs of running a near-Premiership set of facilities at League 1, and even Championship level.

[kevinhectoring]

1 hour ago, angieram said:

Good read, if you forgive the references to 'soccer'! 

A bit out of date already, but good to get an outside perspective. Probably more about Rooney than us, but shows what his value is on a worldwide stage.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/derby-county-engderby/story/4639853/wayne-rooney-may-manage-a-premier-league-club-one-day-right-nowhes-just-trying-to-keep-derby-county-in-business

Interesting they say Rosenoir is behind our style of football. Strange comment in an article about Rooney even if it’s true 
 

Don’t think the comparison between Rooney and Hemingway would have occurred to many people 

[Amberram]

10 hours ago, europia said:

Oh dear.

Thats where Wisdom has been

Edited April 14, 2022 by Amberram

[Jimbo Ram]

16 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

Interesting they say Rosenoir is behind our style of football. Strange comment in an article about Rooney even if it’s true 
 

Don’t think the comparison between Rooney and Hemingway would have occurred to many people 

So it's Rosenior's fault......Hem (to his friends) needs to get us moving forward a tad quicker then.....

[Turk Thrust]

41 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

Under GSE, with costs cut to a very low level, we were still losing ~£7m a year.  And that was without the costs for a Cat 1 academy etc.  If we go down to League 1, that's something like a £6m drop in income purely from TV money. You probably have to assume attendances are going to be lower at that level too.  It's not rocket science to think a club of our size is going to be losing money at League 1 level, and require additional funding to cover that.  If the intention is to pay some of the debts over 3 years, then that's a cost that needs to be covered too.

It's okay saying you're paying £30m for potential, and that absolutely is why Kirchner is buying us, but that £30m alone will come nowhere close to realising that potential IMO. And that's not including signings or anything, that's purely to cover the costs of running a near-Premiership set of facilities at League 1, and even Championship level.

Agree totally. And this why I don’t fully grasp why some posters say that CK’s wealth or lack of it doesn’t matter.

[RamBeauIV]

13 minutes ago, Turk Thrust said:

Agree totally. And this why I don’t fully grasp why some posters say that CK’s wealth or lack of it doesn’t matter.

Same here. 

You can't run DCFC without significant extra investment for the next few years.  The danger is that the Academy is downgraded or closed as part of the cost-cutting.  Can we afford £5M or so a year to keep it going?

[Rev]

1 minute ago, RamBeauIV said:

Same here. 

You can't run DCFC without significant extra investment for the next few years.  The danger is that the Academy is downgraded or closed as part of the cost-cutting.  Can we afford £5M or so a year to keep it going?

You do get an FA grant for running a Cat 1 academy, which narrows the difference in running costs between Cat 1 and Cat 2 significantly.

[The Key Club King]

57 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

Under GSE, with costs cut to a very low level, we were still losing ~£7m a year.  And that was without the costs for a Cat 1 academy etc.  If we go down to League 1, that's something like a £6m drop in income purely from TV money. You probably have to assume attendances are going to be lower at that level too.  It's not rocket science to think a club of our size is going to be losing money at League 1 level, and require additional funding to cover that.  If the intention is to pay some of the debts over 3 years, then that's a cost that needs to be covered too.

It's okay saying you're paying £30m for potential, and that absolutely is why Kirchner is buying us, but that £30m alone will come nowhere close to realising that potential IMO. And that's not including signings or anything, that's purely to cover the costs of running a near-Premiership set of facilities at League 1, and even Championship level.

Derby will lose money even if we sell the remaining big earner (Bielik). Rooney himself is the main problem for wages as his alone (£60k rumoured) will be half the average wage bill of a League One team. Sunderland get 30k gates and their turnover is less than £20m now the parachute payments have dried up. 

As much as GSE are now commended for running us (almost) sustainably there were protests against them for "lack of investment".  

[ram59]

57 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

Under GSE, with costs cut to a very low level, we were still losing ~£7m a year.  And that was without the costs for a Cat 1 academy etc.  If we go down to League 1, that's something like a £6m drop in income purely from TV money. You probably have to assume attendances are going to be lower at that level too.  It's not rocket science to think a club of our size is going to be losing money at League 1 level, and require additional funding to cover that.  If the intention is to pay some of the debts over 3 years, then that's a cost that needs to be covered too.

It's okay saying you're paying £30m for potential, and that absolutely is why Kirchner is buying us, but that £30m alone will come nowhere close to realising that potential IMO. And that's not including signings or anything, that's purely to cover the costs of running a near-Premiership set of facilities at League 1, and even Championship level.

It's quite a simplistic view to say that we were losing £7M per year then and comparing the situation with now. So many things have changed and the club and football going forward are 2 totally different beasts now. In 2012/13 season we lost £7M which was accounted for in net transfer fees and associated costs, I think that transfer fees will be a thing from the past for the next few years. Also, whilst costs were 'low' under GSE, they were still far higher than many in the championship with players wages probably still inflated from our brief trip to the Premier. Also registered as a loss in those accounts is a sum of around £2M to 3M for depreciation, which is kind of invisible.  Also those figures were when the club had a turnover of around £15M which has since increased to £30M pre-covid. 

Other more successful championship clubs are run on far lower costs than we are and I'm sure that prospective owners will feel that they will be able to trim down our costs, the major one being players' wages. In the past any player negotiating a contract would point to other players' wages within the club and would want them matching or bettering, in the future we will have few players to start with, so a new lower wage structure will have to be shared by all.

[Curtains]

I think CK has some wealth 

[Ellafella]

?

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, Curtains said:

I think CK has some wealth 

It appears he has personal wealth of at least £60m cash plus personal assets but don't be distracted by the golf sponsorship - this is sponsored by Slync.io, not by Chris Kirchner personally.

[ColonelBlimp]

On 12/04/2022 at 21:54, Brailsford Ram said:

If I was Chris Kirchner reading a lot of the views which have been expressed on here today, I would reconsider my ambitions for Derby County, realise that I had misunderstood the intelligence level of too many people who masquerade as DCFC fans, boarded my jet and flown away into the sunset, never to darken the doors of Derbyshire again because I am a winner in life but this is one place where the owner of the football club is never going to win.

I despair.

All right Mel, calm down mate.

[Curtains]

13 minutes ago, Ellafella said:

?

Interesting maybe 6 points agreed for this season not next then .

[Rammy03]

4 minutes ago, Brailsford Ram said:

It appears he has personal wealth of at least £60m cash plus personal assets but don't be distracted by the golf sponsorship - this is sponsored by Slync.io, not by Chris Kirchner personally.

No but he is the founder and CEO so he obviously is credible. I'm not concerned.