The Administration Thread

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

2 hours ago, i-Ram said:

Bottom line is Mel wants MSD repaid - be that £20m or £22m or even a bit more - from this administration process.

Ashley, nor any other serious businessperson imo, is going to pay large bucks for the club without taking full stadium ownership. So if Morris sells to the Council I think Ashley and others will walk away from the table (not that Ashley is overly close to the table at the minute). No matter what all the twisting and turning of this thread, the problem is Morris. He should personally settle the debts with MSD, and agree to hand ‘our stadium’ back, foc, as part of the sale. The Administrators can then actually complete their job which is to get the best recovery possible for the creditors, and to make sure who they select through the process, has the wherewithal to run the club after it comes out of administration. In short, cough up and duck off Morris.

 

This is 100% correct. To a potential purchaser the club is worth next to nothing if the stadium is not included. If the stadium is included they have a substantial asset to offset against the massive losses they have to pay the creditors.

Edited April 4, 2022 by The Scarlet Pimpernel

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

8 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

Problem is Q thought they’d sell for enough to clear MSD. So the deal they did early on with Morris was presumably: if you play ball with us, you don’t have to pay off MSD.   He’s now in the position where he’s paid off Gibbo, he’s allowed use of the stadium rent free,  and Q are now saying, oh dear we got it all wrong, we need you to pay another ?15m. 
Two things will really stick in his craw - first, Q have through gross incompetence, contributed to the shortfall including though their own mounting fees. And second, if he bails the club out one last time and if things go well in the next couple of seasons , he’s just made a parting gift to the new buyers. Or that’s how he’ll see it 

whatever, Mm needs to get on with it and agree a deal 
 

We owe him back rent per the EFL statement

Surely he negotiates a payment based on any new owner getting in the premier league as someone's effectively picking up his rather pricy Champagne bar tab and getting a bottle of Lambrusco as a thank you, pretty simple.  They won't be making any money for a long time.

[Oldben]

That's a shame, a council without a business head on.

There's profit in owning the stadium.

Plus derby receives 100 million a year from investment surrounding derby county fc, the city would lose that income if derby folds.

[Ramarena]

As others have said it doesn’t make much sense for a buyer if they don’t have the stadium.

We’re now at the point of pretty much everything hinging upon Mel sorting his debts out.

Will he do it, I’m not sure.

[hintonsboots]

1 minute ago, Ramarena said:

As others have said it doesn’t make much sense for a buyer if they don’t have the stadium.

We’re now at the point of pretty much everything hinging upon Mel sorting his debts out.

Will he do it, I’m not sure.

Can he do it ? Has he got the financial means ?

[Stive Pesley]

39 minutes ago, Rampant said:

What would happen if Mel were to pass away suddenly? Does the stadium pass to his next of kin or to MSD?

Not got the time to go digging right now, but I know that several of the companies in MMs rat's nest already had his son as the person in control

[Ramarena]

3 minutes ago, hintonsboots said:

Can he do it ? Has he got the financial means ?

Looks like we’ll find out in the coming weeks

[ram59]

34 minutes ago, Oldben said:

Your arguments flawed here, seriously giving to some rich guys the stadium, hardly giving at 20 million.

Plus mm is responsible at least to a major degree for the huge debt and the mess with the efl.

The mess with mb/w is also on him.

We owe hmrc 30 million largely because of him.

We owe arsenal fc 8 million largely on him, because of mm poor decision to bring in a player of that value.

We owe msd 30 million, largely on him.

Having placed the club into this much debt, and them what, he's right to blame buyers for leaving the club in administration and being responsible at least in part for the 21 points dished out by the efl.

Creating that much debt, creating an atmosphere of fear over will the club continue to exist.

Now it's OK for mm to get some money for the stadium.

Does the money for the stadium at least involve the repayment of the msd loan? No, it doesn't.

And for that matter who is mm other than a rich guy who played us for fools and bankrupted the club he says he loves.

 

My argument isn't flawed, maybe MM's is though. I can understand him begrudging another rich person getting the stadium on the cheap, in his opinion.

£20M is cheap, if you consider the cost of building a modern stadium, that needs very little spent on it to host premier league football. On the most recent ground completion, Brentford's new ground with half the capacity cost £71M and Everton's new ground with a 53,000 capacity has a projected cost of £500M. So, yes I can see why MM might feel that he's 'giving' the ground away at £20M. 

As you say, he is the reason that he's in this situation, but doesn't stop him wanting to limit the damage, just as one of us getting the sack for gross misconduct and having to sell your home, we wouldn't like to sell it for a fraction of it's worth, even though we're in that position because of our own actions, like MM is.

[EnigmaRam]

If a bidders offered £30 mil for the club including the stadium, why would they still pay £30 mil for the club without the stadium just because the council own it? 
 

If I was a bidder I’d either walk away or reduce my bid accordingly to reflect the assets they are purchasing, namely a 5 a side team.

The debts far outweigh the current assets sadly. Mel either needs to pull his finger out or Q need to seriously call his bluff and start seriously mentioning liquidation

[ketteringram]

BBC radio five just referred to it as the ipro stadium?

[RadioactiveWaste]

It could always be worse...or should I say I'm sure the next bit of the story goes "...and then things got worse"

[Ram-Alf]

34 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Responding to rumours about Council planning to buy the stadium they could just have said no they are not. Then it would be that's all folks. BBC seem to think there is a fallback plan.

The BBC have fallen for the same spiel, Any Politician worth his salt will neither admit or deny something that "could" or "could not" be true, Votes are important to them, A denial in local elections on May 5th can lose them votes that could have consequences in a marginal seat, And they certainly wouldn't say they are going to buy PP for the same reason.

[strawhillram]

59 minutes ago, Rampant said:

What would happen if Mel were to pass away suddenly? Does the stadium pass to his next of kin or to MSD?

Careful what you/we wish for !

[Elwood P Dowd]

15 minutes ago, EnigmaRam said:

If a bidders offered £30 mil for the club including the stadium, why would they still pay £30 mil for the club without the stadium just because the council own it? 
 

 

This is an excellent and sensible question.

Take the stadium away and there’s little of anything of a tangible value left.

 

Edited April 4, 2022 by Elwood P Dowd
Spelling

[Tyler Durden]

23 minutes ago, EnigmaRam said:

If a bidders offered £30 mil for the club including the stadium, why would they still pay £30 mil for the club without the stadium just because the council own it? 
 

If I was a bidder I’d either walk away or reduce my bid accordingly to reflect the assets they are purchasing, namely a 5 a side team.

The debts far outweigh the current assets sadly. Mel either needs to pull his finger out or Q need to seriously call his bluff and start seriously mentioning liquidation

Exactly. I don't want to hear all this pony about what about our fanbase and support and revenue in League 1 as assets etc they're business people. What do they get for their money - a few players and the club name and the exciting opportunity to pay off Morris' debts. Bargain. 

[Oldben]

27 minutes ago, ram59 said:

My argument isn't flawed, maybe MM's is though. I can understand him begrudging another rich person getting the stadium on the cheap, in his opinion.

£20M is cheap, if you consider the cost of building a modern stadium, that needs very little spent on it to host premier league football. On the most recent ground completion, Brentford's new ground with half the capacity cost £71M and Everton's new ground with a 53,000 capacity has a projected cost of £500M. So, yes I can see why MM might feel that he's 'giving' the ground away at £20M. 

As you say, he is the reason that he's in this situation, but doesn't stop him wanting to limit the damage, just as one of us getting the sack for gross misconduct and having to sell your home, we wouldn't like to sell it for a fraction of it's worth, even though we're in that position because of our own actions, like MM is.

Largely irrelevant, because of the actions of MM on this the clubs now valued beyond what any league one club is worth and probably what most championship clubs are worth.

How is derby with as little as it currently has to offer, valued at 60 to 70 million. 

No wonder the club cant find a buyer.

[Miggins]

20 hours ago, Ram1988 said:

100% agree. I do start to wonder about some fans myself too, determined to find problems instead of supporting potential solutions.

I don't think they are. It's just that very little seems to go our way just lately and they might suspect that behind every silver lining there is a cloud. What a roller coaster we are on this season. Up one minute, down the next. Any good news is bound to be followed by disappointment. It's getting a bit late in the season now for potential solutions to be implemented and realized.

For me, well, less optimistic than I was but fighting to the end like our brave lads and doing a bit of whistling in the dark!! COYR!

[Tyler Durden]

36 minutes ago, ram59 said:

My argument isn't flawed, maybe MM's is though. I can understand him begrudging another rich person getting the stadium on the cheap, in his opinion.

£20M is cheap, if you consider the cost of building a modern stadium, that needs very little spent on it to host premier league football. On the most recent ground completion, Brentford's new ground with half the capacity cost £71M and Everton's new ground with a 53,000 capacity has a projected cost of £500M. So, yes I can see why MM might feel that he's 'giving' the ground away at £20M. 

As you say, he is the reason that he's in this situation, but doesn't stop him wanting to limit the damage, just as one of us getting the sack for gross misconduct and having to sell your home, we wouldn't like to sell it for a fraction of it's worth, even though we're in that position because of our own actions, like MM is.

Your analogy is really flawed. Morris isn't operating in a vacuum his actions directly influence other outcomes most importantly whether the club exists or not if he is holding out for as much money as he can for the stadium. 

[StarterForTen]

Buying a business is not (just) about asset values, it's about revenue potential. Derby County's biggest attraction is the 'brand loyalty' of its fanbase as that is what the owner will be looking to monetise.

[curb]

47 minutes ago, hintonsboots said:

Can he do it ? Has he got the financial means ?

If he had the financial means then why would he have taken on the MSD loans?