The Administration Thread

[kevinhectoring]

38 minutes ago, Phuket Ram said:

Jeez it’s astonishing how some people can grasp the point that’s being made re investors!

1. Clowse buys the ground and the club with his own cash - this saves the club, gets us out of administration and allows us to start trading, signing players, offering contracts etc.

2. AFTER he’s the new owner, he THEN need more investors to buy some of his shares off him, reduce his financial exposure, and share the losses. This can obviously take weeks, months or longer. But he’s prepared to stand the losses on his own for a period of time. We don’t know how long that period is, but I doubt it would be more than a year. Because although he’s a fan, he’s not stupid.

 

You’re saying he’s planning to sell down some of the club shares, after he completes the purchase of 100% of the club ?

Seems like a possibility. But if that’s the one and only plan, why didn’t he buy the club and the ground at the same time, so that we could get on with signing some players? 
 

(Sorry if any misunderstanding) 

[Ramos]

8 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

You’re saying he’s planning to sell down some of the club shares, after he completes the purchase of 100% of the club ?

Seems like a possibility. But if that’s the one and only plan, why didn’t he buy the club and the ground at the same time, so that we could get on with signing some players? 
 

(Sorry if any misunderstanding) 

Because originally he was only ever buying the ground. That has been progressing in the back ground for weeks. It wasn’t until the Kirchner deal fell through that a decision has been made to bid for the club too. It therefore then made sense to announce completion of the ground, a loan agreement put in place and the desire to bid for the club all at the same time. 

Edited June 26, 2022 by Ramos

[Curtains]

9 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

You’re saying he’s planning to sell down some of the club shares, after he completes the purchase of 100% of the club ?

Seems like a possibility. But if that’s the one and only plan, why didn’t he buy the club and the ground at the same time, so that we could get on with signing some players? 
 

(Sorry if any misunderstanding) 

Owners and directors test .

EFL are checking 

[Shadowplay]

8 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

You’re saying he’s planning to sell down some of the club shares, after he completes the purchase of 100% of the club ?

Seems like a possibility. But if that’s the one and only plan, why didn’t he buy the club and the ground at the same time, so that we could get on with signing some players? 
 

(Sorry if any misunderstanding) 

I guess it was easier to buy the ground first (the ground is not in admin and a deal with mm had already been agreed in principle).

[CBX1985]

8 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

You’re saying he’s planning to sell down some of the club shares, after he completes the purchase of 100% of the club ?

Seems like a possibility. But if that’s the one and only plan, why didn’t he buy the club and the ground at the same time, so that we could get on with signing some players? 
 

(Sorry if any misunderstanding) 

This might, of course, be correct.  I think what will happen is he buys club in full.  He will then sell a percentage if, and only if, a bidder who has something to offer comes forward.  For example, has a good knowledge of football; or has good ideas, or help the club forward.

I don't think it will be as simple as wanting to partially sell, but he is not in this for the money, so everything is on the table and he is not precious of it being "his".

[Van der MoodHoover]

36 minutes ago, Addingham Ram said:

I could be totally wrong, but does anybody actually know?

You're clearly a forum neophyte my friend. Initiation is submitting sincerely held but inexpert views for the chill winds of withering contempt from us regulars...... ?

[PistoldPete]

50 minutes ago, atherstoneram said:

We will be restricted by the EFL on what we can offer, the turnover situation doesn't come into it while we are paying the creditors.

Oh right. Turnover is not relevant. That's a new one on me.  

[Crewton]

19 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said:

Yes,but probably no one on this forum

When Rooney became permanent manager, he hung up his boots, terminated his playing contract and signed a 2.5 Yr contract as Manager. Jonathan Northcroft in the Times today stated that Rooney effectively accepted a salary cut worth "millions" which makes sense when you consider that the average salary of a championship manager is much less than £1m. That contract had a year to run when it was terminated with immediate effect on Friday. 

I assume that the extra over sponsorship from 32Red either ended when Rooney stopped being a player, or was significantly reduced. 

[Tamworthram]

32 minutes ago, atherstoneram said:

Whilst the plan to pay creditors remains in place.

Hope you are enjoying your hols, weather not too bad here just up from Tamworth.

Sorry to be a pain but if the plan is to pay creditors x% up front (rather than over 3 years) and no more then would there be any restrictions after the upfront payment is made? That’s the point I was trying to make rather than anything to do with avoiding the 15 point penalty.

Luckily, copious amounts of red wine is helping insulate me against the unusually cool spell. I’ll be back in sunny Tamworth on Friday so  I’m sure the fine weather there won’t last. ?

[CornwallRam]

36 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

But we’re never going to pay the creditors in full. So, are the extra restrictions only for a set period of time (sorry, I’m sure the answer is somewhere easy to find myself but I’m too lazy/cold here on holiday ?).

My understanding is that we get two years of restrictions as part of the adminstration process. This is extended by a year if we go for the 35% over 3 years option. 

The reasons are supposedly two fold:

Firstly, to enshrine sustainability into the club restructure. If, for example, we're limited to a 25 man squad with a maximum wage bill of £75k per week, we ought to be able to run at a profit. It will effect income, but we'll be expected to trim unnecessary expenditure to accommodate. Two years down the line and we should look like a stable club, ready for investment to take us forward. 

Secondly, it's part of the punishment. It's part of the reaction to Leicester's actions when they wiped most of their debts and new owners came in and 'bought' the league. The restrictions are there to stop 'big' clubs from wiping debts and then outspending everyone else.

As @angieramalluded to in an earlier post, in terms of spending, we are going to be a small League 1 club for the next two to three years. Maybe a genius of a manager could squeeze us into the play offs, but it's staggeringly unlikely. 

We need to reign in our expectations and and celebrate still having a club to support. 

I wonder if it's possible to patent a Mel Morris dartboard?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Phuket Ram said:

Jeez it’s astonishing how some people can grasp the point that’s being made re investors!

1. Clowse buys the ground and the club with his own cash - this saves the club, gets us out of administration and allows us to start trading, signing players, offering contracts etc.

2. AFTER he’s the new owner, he THEN need more investors to buy some of his shares off him, reduce his financial exposure, and share the losses. This can obviously take weeks, months or longer. But he’s prepared to stand the losses on his own for a period of time. We don’t know how long that period is, but I doubt it would be more than a year. Because although he’s a fan, he’s not stupid.

 

I understand that David Clowes has had discussions with Andy Appleby over investment. That has some appeal as it would bring together a wealthy lifelong fan and an experienced football administrator with lifelong links to Derby and previous ownership of the club. Having been told that, I assume DC would be amenable to similar proposals from others to spread his risk if the Appleby project does not come to fruition. Whatever DC's plans are exactly, I feel much safer now that he owns the stadium than I have done since this whole sorry saga began and it gives confidence that a full takeover may be very close with people of real and trusted integrity being involved in it.

[PistoldPete]

11 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

Sorry to be a pain but if the plan is to pay creditors x% up front (rather than over 3 years) and no more then would there be any restrictions after the upfront payment is made? That’s the point I was trying to make rather than anything to do with avoiding the 15 point penalty.

Luckily, copious amounts of red wine is helping insulate me against the unusually cool spell. I’ll be back in sunny Tamworth on Friday so  I’m sure the fine weather there won’t last. ?

Exactly. This isn't a Bolton situation (yet at least). There are already restrictions in League One anyway, we are never going on a morris style splurge. But should be no reason just to play kids we can refresh the squad with freebies and loan signings. Of course EFL may have other plans, if so well you know what I think. 
 

The best business plan anyway is for us to be allowed to compete on equal terms in league one. Anything else is anti competitive, and actually counter productive.  

[kevinhectoring]

47 minutes ago, Curtains said:

Owners and directors test .

EFL are checking 

Sure he needs to pass the test. But if DC ownership was a certainty subject only to the test, wouldn’t the releases have said that? 

[Rev]

17 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

 

I wonder if it's possible to patent a Mel Morris dartboard?

Great idea. 

A dartboard with two faces.

[Curtains]

1 minute ago, kevinhectoring said:

Sure he needs to pass the test. But if DC ownership was a certainty subject only to the test, wouldn’t the releases have said that? 

I’m simply not worried anymore. 
The future looks brighter 

[Mucker1884]

2 hours ago, Archied said:

There once was a bloke on the forum

by god he could bloody well bore um

he thought he was right

Was shedding some light 

when really just talking old s**** 

Shoreham?

What a rubbish ending!  

[Sparkle]

57 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

My understanding is that we get two years of restrictions as part of the adminstration process. This is extended by a year if we go for the 35% over 3 years option. 

The reasons are supposedly two fold:

Firstly, to enshrine sustainability into the club restructure. If, for example, we're limited to a 25 man squad with a maximum wage bill of £75k per week, we ought to be able to run at a profit. It will effect income, but we'll be expected to trim unnecessary expenditure to accommodate. Two years down the line and we should look like a stable club, ready for investment to take us forward. 

Secondly, it's part of the punishment. It's part of the reaction to Leicester's actions when they wiped most of their debts and new owners came in and 'bought' the league. The restrictions are there to stop 'big' clubs from wiping debts and then outspending everyone else.

As @angieramalluded to in an earlier post, in terms of spending, we are going to be a small League 1 club for the next two to three years. Maybe a genius of a manager could squeeze us into the play offs, but it's staggeringly unlikely. 

We need to reign in our expectations and and celebrate still having a club to support. 

I wonder if it's possible to patent a Mel Morris dartboard?

That’s pretty much the accepted trend - whilst none of it is written down in EFL rules/guidelines that are available for all to see. 

[Phuket Ram]

1 hour ago, kevinhectoring said:

You’re saying he’s planning to sell down some of the club shares, after he completes the purchase of 100% of the club ?

Seems like a possibility. But if that’s the one and only plan, why didn’t he buy the club and the ground at the same time, so that we could get on with signing some players? 
 

(Sorry if any misunderstanding) 

He bought the ground simply because there was an impasse - to enable the sale to KC.  (See the date of sale) At that time KC was preferred bidder and in the middle of a purchase. No problem, right?

KC then pulled out unexpectedly, so DC then decides to buy the club - to save the club. 

His actions were driven by events as they happened. I believe he had no intention to buy the club until until the risk of losing it became intolerable. I have absolutely no doubt that he will sell shares and fairly quickly - given the interest of Appleby's team. Makes absolute sense to me. I don't think we can slate him for rocking up late to the party, we was merely walking past eating a kebab at the time... 

[Gritstone Ram]

2 hours ago, Phuket Ram said:

Jeez it’s astonishing how some people can grasp the point that’s being made re investors!

1. Clowse buys the ground and the club with his own cash - this saves the club, gets us out of administration and allows us to start trading, signing players, offering contracts etc.

2. AFTER he’s the new owner, he THEN need more investors to buy some of his shares off him, reduce his financial exposure, and share the losses. This can obviously take weeks, months or longer. But he’s prepared to stand the losses on his own for a period of time. We don’t know how long that period is, but I doubt it would be more than a year. Because although he’s a fan, he’s not stupid.

 

I agree I think this is an interim measure to keep the club going and so it can start next season I think DC will be looking at either selling the club on or getting further investment.

[Gritstone Ram]

2 hours ago, Keepyuppy said:

My take in Rooney resigning is; 

i believe Rooney’s contract of circa £90k a week (£4.68m a year) was being entirely funded through 32Red and that deal ends on 30th June. Even if a new club purchaser wanted to keep Rooney, I doubt very much that the business plan going forward and agreed with the EFL would allow for £4.68m wages to Rooney and if it did allow for its inclusion, it would have to be ‘squared ‘ with the other staff, players wages. 
it would be financial suicide to commit potentially 1/3rd of wages. I get to a single manager.
I think Rooney realised that and also due to his he’s been screwed at every point in his short tenure, I doubt very much Rooney wanted to continue with that formula, especially as his ‘potential signings’ would have been facilitated through Stretford et al a nd now he’s not in the equation, those potential signings look dead in the water. 
I actually think Rooney has done us a favour by saving the club £4.68m in wages cost, that can now potentially be used to rebuild the squad , presumably under Rosenoir’s leadership ?? 

I don’t understand in his statement he said the admins tried very hard to get him to stay.