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Boycie

By Boycie
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Flying Fokker

Flying Fokker

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, atherstoneram said:

There is another way to look at their statement (having the interests of the club at heart yeah right) they don't want to be the organisation that sees the club removed from the league but if Quantuma liquidate us then the EFL can say they tried everything possible to save the club.

You make a good point.  Either way the club needs to come out of this mess.

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maxjam
maxjam

So... I went to the shop shortly after the announcement to grab some 'celebration juice' for tonight and met a guy in a Derby shirt holding a 4 pack of Bud and asked him if he was celebrating as

Cam the Ram
Cam the Ram
angieram
angieram

I haven't got time to mop up sexist comments,  I am too busy making cups of tea for the other mods! 

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Ramos

Ramos

Posted
Posted
Just now, angieram said:

It's hard to comment one way or the other when we haven't got any idea of what is actually happening. 

There are so many theories on here I assume one of us will get lucky and guess right. Probably someone with the wildest imagination! 

Elon musk pulls out of buying Twitter to buy DCFC instead. You heard it here first. 

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atherstoneram

atherstoneram

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, SillyBilly said:

Bit of moot point IMO regarding EFL meddling. The club is nothing without EFL membership, to its creditors, to its supporters, to its owners. This is not a conventional business so it is not a conventional administration process. And I agree with the EFL fully actually FWIW in their latest statement, there are 23 other clubs in League one that deserve clarity on their competition for next year. Time has ran out for everyone so it is put up or shut up time. 

Sorry but if the EFL are thinking along those lines they simply expel us from the league and not get involved in insolvency actions but they are cowards and dare not do that,they don't want to be seen as authors of our demise.

 

To say Trevor Birch an EFL board member will have an active role in this with him being an insolvency practitioner raises a huge Red flag regarding conflicts of interest.

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CornwallRam

CornwallRam

Posted
Posted
50 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Ummm what's stopping us playing the entirety of next season in administration?

There's no rules about how long a club is allowed to be in administration for - look at Wigan, Portsmouth etc 

Why are the EFL suddenly getting all precious about us potentially going into next season in administration, they weren't particularly bothered about it for the past season.

The rule is that you can't start consecutive seasons in adminstration, so in theory it should be fine. However, all clubs have to show a realistic business plan to get through the season, whether in administration or not. If they don't, they are kicked out of the league. That's very difficult to do in administration.

This was what actually killed Bury. 

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Tyler Durden

Tyler Durden

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, CBX1985 said:

With respect, you conflate two separate issues.  One factual; one not.

If both parties fail to agree, you are correct it is factual they do not leave administration.  The price to be paid is in some way set: this is the thing to be needs to be discussed, and is not.

Let's call the final day before liquidation D-Day.  On D-Day +1 you get nothing.  Six months to D-Day, you might only accept 60p in the pound as someone might come along with an amazing bid.  Six weeks pre D-Day you might accept 35p.  D-Day morning you might accept 10p.  By that evening, you will accept pennies in the pound as you will get nothing if you don't - and that moment is moments away.

If a creditor is owed £1m, they might get £100,000 from Ashley.  They get nothing in liquidation.  On the last day they accept.  Before that point they procrastinate as they might get more.  It's like that weird indoor cycling: everything always comes down to the last lap, as everyone holds out until the end for better. 

Without a knight in shining armour, the creditors get nothing or something.    But, as I say, there needs to be a point of no return to focus minds.  It is literally day one 101 of negotiation school.  

Apologies as you're new to this forum but this discussion has been had over many times on here...if the HMRC are the largest creditors then they will decide ultimately whether to accept an offer or not and if they don't think it's enough then isn't it their prerogative to then say the club gets liquidated?

There's must be a minimum value set to all of these precedings?

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atherstoneram

atherstoneram

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, CBX1985 said:

With respect, you conflate two separate issues.  One factual; one not.

If both parties fail to agree, you are correct it is factual they do not leave administration.  The price to be paid is in some way set: this is the thing to be needs to be discussed, and is not.

Let's call the final day before liquidation D-Day.  On D-Day +1 you get nothing.  Six months to D-Day, you might only accept 60p in the pound as someone might come along with an amazing bid.  Six weeks pre D-Day you might accept 35p.  D-Day morning you might accept 10p.  By that evening, you will accept pennies in the pound as you will get nothing if you don't - and that moment is moments away.

If a creditor is owed £1m, they might get £100,000 from Ashley.  They get nothing in liquidation.  On the last day they accept.  Before that point they procrastinate as they might get more.  It's like that weird indoor cycling: everything always comes down to the last lap, as everyone holds out until the end for better. 

Without a knight in shining armour, the creditors get nothing or something.    But, as I say, there needs to be a point of no return to focus minds.  It is literally day one 101 of negotiation school.  

Indeed,creditors will not be bothered whether the club survives or not. They make take the view they have been offered 35% so a new bidder pays that or no deal.

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PistoldPete

PistoldPete

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, atherstoneram said:

There is another way to look at their statement (having the interests of the club at heart yeah right) they don't want to be the organisation that sees the club removed from the league but if Quantuma liquidate us then the EFL can say they tried everything possible to save the club.

Quantuma has no intention of liquidating us, and there are several intersted buyers so we will not be liquidated.

Q has gone for the highest bidder, EFL want someone who can come in quick so that they can be sure we will last the season. So it's time versus money.   

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CBX1985

CBX1985

Posted
Posted

HMRC is a difficult one.  They I grant you are unique. They have to get value for taxpayers.

An offer can be anything you like.  HMRC 100%, everyone else 7%.

Once you stop caring about a fifteen points reduction, it makes settlement easier in many ways.  Creditors as a mass will agree getting paid.  The less you want to offer, the later you have to leave it.  

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CBX1985

CBX1985

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, atherstoneram said:

Indeed,creditors will not be bothered whether the club survives or not. They make take the view they have been offered 35% so a new bidder pays that or no deal.

But then they get nothing.  35% or nothing is not a reasonable strategy for someone with multi-million investments.  

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PistoldPete

PistoldPete

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, atherstoneram said:

Sorry but if the EFL are thinking along those lines they simply expel us from the league and not get involved in insolvency actions but they are cowards and dare not do that,they don't want to be seen as authors of our demise.

 

To say Trevor Birch an EFL board member will have an active role in this with him being an insolvency practitioner raises a huge Red flag regarding conflicts of interest.

A massive conflict of interest for EFL .. especially as Trevor Birch used to be at Derby.

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SillyBilly

SillyBilly

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, atherstoneram said:

Sorry but if the EFL are thinking along those lines they simply expel us from the league and not get involved in insolvency actions but they are cowards and dare not do that,they don't want to be seen as authors of our demise.

 

To say Trevor Birch an EFL board member will have an active role in this with him being an insolvency practitioner raises a huge Red flag regarding conflicts of interest.

I simply don't get the axe to grind stuff with the EFL so I'm not on the same page; probably gives me company only with a very small minority of Derby fans but there we have it. The problems are and were Mel Morris, and since he left, the administrators, admins that haven't been up to much; opinion formulated there on the basis that results speak louder than words and the results are and remain poor. Creating bogeymen of the EFL, I can understand the emotion behind it, but I think it is precisely that, emotion. Think their Statement today is wholly necessary, putting feet to the fire is vital at some point.

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atherstoneram

atherstoneram

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Apologies as you're new to this forum but this discussion has been had over many times on here...if the HMRC are the largest creditors then they will decide ultimately whether to accept an offer or not and if they don't think it's enough then isn't it their prerogative to then say the club gets liquidated?

There's must be a minimum value set to all of these precedings?

There is and if that isn't met then the administrators take the next step of putting the club into liquidation. To me it seems MA has been onto the EFL because his offer doesn't meet that.

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strawhillram

strawhillram

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Quantuma has no intention of liquidating us, and there are several intersted buyers so we will not be liquidated.

Q has gone for the highest bidder, EFL want someone who can come in quick so that they can be sure we will last the season. So it's time versus money.   

I wonder what what would happen if efl remove golden membership and then we are taken over. Would we miss next season and then be in L1 for following season? It’s not like a liquidation scenario where we have to start again a a new club in lowest level or is it?

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