The Administration Thread

[Jimbo Ram]

2 minutes ago, Elwood P Dowd said:

Not as amazing as 1933 which brought Sunderland’s record crowd. 75,118 crammed into Roker Park to witness a THURSDAY FA Cup quarter-final against Derby County. With so many in attendance, the game was stopped several times to move supporters off the sides of the pitch.

Did we win ??

[Wistaston Ram]

2 hours ago, Stive Pesley said:

This season was a weird one, coming out of the pandemic + the administration/uncertainty made it harder to fill the ground

That said - I don't think we can assume we will fill the ground in L1, unless we get off to a flyer and are thumping teams left right and centre, new investment, exciting new players etc

Attendances in the 3rd tier back in the 1980s dropped pretty low

Our first season we finished 7th and our average attendance was just under 11k. Highest was 16k and lowest was 8k

Even the following season when we finished 3rd and got promoted - our average attendance was 12k (highest 21k and lowest 9.5k)

I doubt we'll drop attendances that low, but the cost of living crisis won't be our friend in that respect either.

I think 20k next season will be considered a decent crowd

11-12K in the third division was a very good attendance in the 1980s. Take a look at average attendances in the old first division. I seem to remember even clubs like Villa were struggling to get 16,000 on occasion.  Football was not fashionable then and hooliganism put many people off attending, so our crowds were probably equivalent to about 20k in today's money. 

[Mihangel]

2 hours ago, Stive Pesley said:

This season was a weird one, coming out of the pandemic + the administration/uncertainty made it harder to fill the ground

That said - I don't think we can assume we will fill the ground in L1, unless we get off to a flyer and are thumping teams left right and centre, new investment, exciting new players etc

Attendances in the 3rd tier back in the 1980s dropped pretty low

Our first season we finished 7th and our average attendance was just under 11k. Highest was 16k and lowest was 8k

Even the following season when we finished 3rd and got promoted - our average attendance was 12k (highest 21k and lowest 9.5k)

I doubt we'll drop attendances that low, but the cost of living crisis won't be our friend in that respect either.

I think 20k next season will be considered a decent crowd

In fairness, you have to see that in the context of attendances at that time, that average put us above 4 of the top division clubs, those mighty clubs Villa and Forest averaged 15 and 16k respectively. In today's terms, that would have us over 30k which is very unlikely but still.....

[Ghost of Clough]

5 minutes ago, Wistaston Ram said:

11-12K in the third division was a very good attendance in the 1980s. Take a look at average attendances in the old first division. I seem to remember even clubs like Villa were struggling to get 16,000 on occasion.  Football was not fashionable then and hooliganism put many people off attending, so our crowds were probably equivalent to about 20k in today's money. 

3rd division saw a steady drop in attendances of 10k in the 60s to 4.5k in the mid 80s. Been steadily climbing since and are around the 8k figure now.

2nd division is a similar pattern. 18k in the 60s, down to 7.7k in '86 and now risen to 20k.

1st division same again. 32k down to below 20k and now climbed up to 38k

Here's a nice little graphic, although it only starts at 1970:

[IslandExile]

25 minutes ago, Elwood P Dowd said:

Not as amazing as 1933 which brought Sunderland’s record crowd. 75,118 crammed into Roker Park to witness a THURSDAY FA Cup quarter-final against Derby County. With so many in attendance, the game was stopped several times to move supporters off the sides of the pitch.

 

22 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Did we win ??

Yes, 1-0 - in the replay after a 4-4 draw at the BBG

https://www.11v11.com/matches/sunderland-v-derby-county-08-march-1933-208296/

[Elwood P Dowd]

32 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Did we win ??

Yes 0-1, I think 1933 was our last away win ??

[kevinhectoring]

3 hours ago, CornwallRam said:

Just reading a post from @Ambitiousin the Bielik thread. He mentions the player's book value. 

Does anyone know what actually happens to these values post-administration? Is it am opportunity to write all the values down?

 

Unlikely the sale will have any effect. Because it’s likely to be a sale of shares in the club (or its holding company) rather than a sale of assets of the club (CK has been referring to an ‘SPA’ - share purchase agreement). So the club’s own accounts are unaffected 

Don’t think exiting admin will have any accounting consequences either 

[RoyMac5]

"Mr. Hull commented: “We are delighted to have supported Chris Kirchner in a deal that will hopefully secure the future of Derby County Football Club. This is the most complex, high-stakes football transaction that we have advised on, with the separation of the ownership of Pride Park from the club one of a number of issues to navigate in structuring the deal. The desire and co-operation of all stakeholders who are working hard to get this deal over the line will enable the club to move on and look ahead to next season and its long-term future.”

[Ambitious]

2 hours ago, David said:

Sunderland averaged 32k in their first season in League 1, which was 5k more than the season they were relegated.

Since then they have dropped to 30k which is still fairly impressive.

on the other hand, in 19/20 Sheffield Wednesday averaged 23k, and this season 22k.

Derby averaged 23k this season, IF Rooney could maintain the relationship between players and fans whilst competing near the top, with the right ticket prices I don't think an average of around 25k wouldn't be overly optimistic.

We have to be competing in the top 6 for those numbers though and that is going to be a challenge given the rebuild that is needed.

A lot depends on the momentum we can build this summer - and how quickly we can get our ducks in order. 

Still baffles me that we didn't even have a ticket office open going into this last season, nor (if I remember rightly) was it possible to purchase season tickets. I didn't bother this last season because I assumed (wrongly in the end) that there was no chance we would get through it without another COVID lockdown and reduced/no crowd. 

I will be getting one this season, but just hope there is a ticket office that people can get to and we're not going into the final week of pre-season without a full team. It will be interesting to see what happens to the academy too, as I'd imagine a lot of those players will be free to simply find other clubs very soon. 

[Day]

6 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

A lot depends on the momentum we can build this summer - and how quickly we can get our ducks in order. 

Still baffles me that we didn't even have a ticket office open going into this last season, nor (if I remember rightly) was it possible to purchase season tickets. I didn't bother this last season because I assumed (wrongly in the end) that there was no chance we would get through it without another COVID lockdown and reduced/no crowd. 

I will be getting one this season, but just hope there is a ticket office that people can get to and we're not going into the final week of pre-season without a full team. It will be interesting to see what happens to the academy too, as I'd imagine a lot of those players will be free to simply find other clubs very soon. 

Well if it all gets wrapped up by the 31st, would be amazed if we haven't got a squad ready to go within a few weeks.

You would assume contract discussions are taking place with the players Rooney wants to keep now, have contracts drawn up ready to sign the minute things are confirmed.

The opening game of the season is in July this year, so haven't got any time to waste really.

Also considering a season ticket again this year, really comes down to price at this point, be interesting to see which way they go with it.

[R@M]

4 hours ago, CornwallRam said:

Just reading a post from @Ambitiousin the Bielik thread. He mentions the player's book value. 

Does anyone know what actually happens to these values post-administration? Is it am opportunity to write all the values down?

 

I’m not an expert by any means…but surely a residual asset can only carry over the valuation given at the time of the administration. If a new company (as has been created) sells the asset, the opening balance of said asset would be the last valuation done under the administration process. If Bielik has a good Summer we could technically make some profit….for the balance sheet at least!

[I know nuffin]

9 hours ago, SFox1993 said:

Give it a rest will ya jesus christ.

Got a feeling EFL rules allow more spending in the business plan if 35% is paid rather than 25%. Makes some sense to be thst way

[I know nuffin]

4 hours ago, Stive Pesley said:

This season was a weird one, coming out of the pandemic + the administration/uncertainty made it harder to fill the ground

That said - I don't think we can assume we will fill the ground in L1, unless we get off to a flyer and are thumping teams left right and centre, new investment, exciting new players etc

Attendances in the 3rd tier back in the 1980s dropped pretty low

Our first season we finished 7th and our average attendance was just under 11k. Highest was 16k and lowest was 8k

Even the following season when we finished 3rd and got promoted - our average attendance was 12k (highest 21k and lowest 9.5k)

I doubt we'll drop attendances that low, but the cost of living crisis won't be our friend in that respect either.

I think 20k next season will be considered a decent crowd

What were the averages the two years before relegation. Those figures are in baseball in ground. There was a large jump in the PP years so it is better to compare before religation for both stadia

[Bobby]

Congratulations on the sale, is the HMRC include in the 35p in the pound or do they still have to be sorted, and if so could they still be a stumbling block?

[Ambitious]

3 minutes ago, Bobby said:

Congratulations on the sale, is the HMRC include in the 35p in the pound or do they still have to be sorted, and if so could they still be a stumbling block?

I believe the HMRC deal is separate and to my knowledge was one of the early boxes ticked off from the administrators point of view. Everyone coming to the table knew what the deal was with them, but I don't believe it was ever disclosed. 

[Wolfie20]

2 hours ago, Elwood P Dowd said:

Not as amazing as 1933 which brought Sunderland’s record crowd. 75,118 crammed into Roker Park to witness a THURSDAY FA Cup quarter-final against Derby County. With so many in attendance, the game was stopped several times to move supporters off the sides of the pitch.

Bit like our game at the BBG against Fulham then?

[Rev]

1 hour ago, David said:

Also considering a season ticket again this year, really comes down to price at this point, be interesting to see which way they go with it.

It will be interesting. 

On the one hand, it's a ticket that gives entry for the exact same number of games, on the other it's at a lower level.

It's worth bearing in mind that the pricing plan was changed last season too, instead of having multiple bands around the stadium,  pricing was changed to ends, corners and sides.

I presume, given the amount of ST holders who left their money with the club during the lost season, this might be the first time many East stand lowers, who sit towards the penalty boxes, will be asked to tap out the same amount as West stand uppers in line with the centre, if nothing changes?

 

 

Edited May 18, 2022 by Rev
Detail

[Stive Pesley]

33 minutes ago, I know nuffin said:

What were the averages the two years before relegation. Those figures are in baseball in ground. There was a large jump in the PP years so it is better to compare before religation for both stadia

Figures are here - the middle column in the tier of league we were in. Surprising how much the average attendances fluctuated for saying we've always been a "football town"

 

[jono]

5 hours ago, CornwallRam said:

Just reading a post from @Ambitiousin the Bielik thread. He mentions the player's book value. 

Does anyone know what actually happens to these values post-administration? Is it am opportunity to write all the values down?

 

If you were writing something down, that would presuppose the failed company that used the existing book values still existed. Once we exit admin as I see it, it won’t exist .
Barring a deal to pay specific creditors, any previous book values are meaningless. CK has bought a club. The value of its contracted players will be a clean estimate based on todays values and the price he paid for the club as a whole. Any future depreciation will be based on those new values. Past values will play no part from an accountancy pov .. or at least that’s what logic tells me. ? Any FRCA’s care to clarify what happens to asset values when a co has been bought out of receivership  ? 

[Elwood P Dowd]

12 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said:

Bit like our game at the BBG against Fulham then?

Yes, it wasn’t you who tripped that Fulham player was it????