The Administration Thread

[Mucker1884]

3 hours ago, CBRammette said:

We cant moan about collusion on the other side and then want that? Q seem to have decided to not make statements on any of the noise and to just get on with it. Prefer that stance as long as they are getting on with it!

Collusion between WW & MFC would be perfectly understandable, and acceptable (to me at least) as would collusion between Q & MM.

However, if we are talking about the independent, neutral, impartial overlords of this whole mess colluding with either side, then we are on a whole different level.  
I suspect that when the majority of folk on here bemoan alleged collusion, it refers to the EFL being involved?  

[TooFarInToTurnRed]

11 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

I could be wrong, but I think the problem is that the administrators can't get a CVA because HMRC won't settle for for any figure that the bidders will pay. 

The restructuring plan effectively reduces HMRC to an unsecured creditor, and they'll just get the same percentage as the rest. If it's less than 25% we get a points deduction, but I think most bidders will accept that as the business plan will prevent a promotion push for a couple of seasons.

Football creditors will also be entitled to the same, but presumably the new owners will voluntarily make up the difference to stay in the league.

That's why I don't think that Mel's offer will actually help. We need these claims sorting before we run out of cash, and a court case won't be quick. 

It's profoundly irritating, but if Mel wants to get this sorted, he'll have to make them a cash offer. The alternative is the Arbitration route, but I think everyone is rightly suspicious of any EFL mandated hearings. 

I personally don’t think HMRC is an issue, I think there is already an agreement but Q haven’t seen fit to tell the EFL as it would be undoubtedly leaked and used in their propaganda. I’d be quite confident the bidders all know what the minimum price will be and the fact that they are still around says they are willing to meet that.

Not well versed in law but suspect the MSD debt may not be included in any headline ‘sale price’ as I believe it would move to the parent/sister company that owns the stadium.

 

[Elwood P Dowd]

56 minutes ago, ollycutts1982 said:

But there was no Jesus?????

There is he plays for Man City

[GboroRam]

This thread has taken an ecumenical turn of late.

[Ram-Alf]

1 hour ago, Tyler Durden said:

It was Pontius Pilate who ordered the crucifixion of Jesus there was no Caesar alive at the time of his death keen Bible student that I am

I'm not sure you're right there Tyler, I watched Monty Pythons "Life of Brian" and when they stoned the old fella and the women who were wearing beards...as women weren't allowed at stonings back in the day, The Character played by John Cleese shouted "who through that c'mon who threw it", They all grassed the Woman up, John Cleese said "Seize Her".

Unfortunately that part was left on the cutting room floor.

[Ram-Alf]

12 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

This thread has taken an ecumenical turn of late.

Jesus Christ!

[Ramslad1992]

2 hours ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

Could it now be any clearer? In the space of 48 hours the EFL have stated BOTH that the club has the offer of EITHER 'impartial' arbitration OR the High Courts as a means to satisfy claims AND that they now acknowledges MFC/WWFC as football creditors, which would leave arbitration as the sole route forward. Wholly contradictory statements and yet another example of their contemptuous abuse of power. There has been no discussion, no arbitration and no independent input to this decision, rather it is a call made arbitrarily and unilaterally by the EFL board with no outside consultation and in contravention of their own directives. Do these clowns even read what they regurgitate into the public domain? Do they not even cross-reference the claims made in one with the other? The inconsistencies (read: huge ducking porkies) are glaring and have been for two years now. Likewise Gibson who appears to have the attention span of a hungry toddler and the linguistic skills of one too.

Heads must now roll at the EFL. There is NO ROOM FOR DOUBT anymore. In their poorly conceived and executed PR campaign seeking to shift the onus to Morris, the admins and even the 'highest bidder', they have absolutely tied themselves in knots and in doing so, have threatened both the stability and integrity of the League they are meant to govern and serve. 

At this point, the 72 member clubs simply must act. There can be no remaining doubt that the EFL prioritises its own interests over those of its member clubs. Ladies and gentlemen, the tail is clearly wagging the dog. This is, of course, a wholly unacceptable state of affairs and will inevitably lead to chaos should the precedent they seek to set be entertained. Every subsequent season will start with multiple different fixture lists as the governing body and civil courts wade through dozens of spurious football related claims, clubs will be forced into admin and /or liquidation and the league system as we know it, will fail. A vote of no confidence and the immediate resignations of Rick Parry and Trevor Birch are now mandatory requirements on the long road back to credible and impartial governance of the League. For any governing body, as custodians of football, to bring bring the English game into such hopeless disrepute is simply unforgiveable and action must be taken sooner rather than later, irrespective of the situation at Derby County.

As for Messrs Gibson and Couhig, your bluff has now been called. If you truly believe in the veracity of your claims and are not simply looking to leverage the threat of liquidation to extort funds from a club who has already accepted its punishment (in keeping with the EFL's own directives), it's time for you to accept Mr Morris's offer of your day in court. Any other course of action will merely confirm suspicions of the very unsavoury motivations that have led to what appears to have been a merit-less witch-hunt borne solely out of greed and petty personal grievances. I'm looking at you specifically Gibson. You chose to prioritise continuing your spat with Mel Morris over the future of the club, the welfare of it's employees, the sustainability of local businesses and the mental health of the wider community. This will NEVER be forgotten, nor forgiven. I speak only for myself when I say that having been a chairman whom I once held in high regard, I have now come to despise everything for which you stand. 

I trust also that those on this forum who openly mocked posters who for two years have openly expressed the view that the EFL's treatment of Derby County Football Club has been less than impartial, will now take time to think about whether said posts were fair, warranted or helpful. Hindsight, it is true, is a wonderful thing, but so too is an open mind.

A last thought in regards to Mel Morris; Mel, I was one of your staunchest supporters. I was wrong. It broke my heart when you placed the club into administration. Perhaps there are mitigating circumstances as yet unknown, but we are where we are and you sir, were the custodian of this club we all love. Inevitably, the buck stops with you. All of this notwithstanding, thank you for the steps you have now taken to break the impasse. What's done can't be changed, but I do hope that this will at least give harsher critics some small pause for thought. 

[PistoldPete]

1 hour ago, Brailsford Ram said:

Pete, I am usually warmed by your contributions to this forum but on this occasion I reluctantly have to say this is unhelpful and merely confuses the situation for some others. The comment indicates a clear lack of understanding of the concept of limited liability for claims against a company . Limited liability absolves a director from personal liability so quite rightly Gibson has lodged his claim against DCFC as a company. Neither Morris, Pearce, McFarland whoever has any personal  liability for the claim. It falls squarely on the company that is DCFC Limited.

However, Mel Morris has offered to accept the transfer of liability from DCFC to himself personally. I do not know if this has previously been done under English Law or not. But it seems a very reasonable and generous offer. If it does set a precedent, the High Court is an a position to accept Mel's offer and hear the case by way of case law in which it lays down its reason for hearing MFC v Morris or not. If it makes it a stated case and allows it to be heard, then the principle of the transfer of liability will become enshrined in law for the future.

I hope that Mel has benefitted from expert legal advice beyond what is probably available within this forum and has been told the court may well allow the claim to proceed in the way Mel has proposed. We shall see.

In biblical terms the offer is morally outstanding for Mel is saying to Caesar Gibson by all means seek to crucify me but please don't pursue genocide against my former flock, which is the fanbase of Derby County. So let's hope it works.

Thanks, but from the Middlesbrough statement it says 2nd para third sentence  :

"Without breaking the confidentiality of the proceedings, in simple terms, MFC allege Derby County and its directors systematically cheated under the P&S Rules and that such cheating affects the integrity of the competition"

https://www.mfc.co.uk/news/club-statement-Derby-county
 

So as I read it the claim is also against the directors. EFL for example  brought a claim against Sheff wed and Chansiri jointly, with Chansiri being charged with misconduct (found not guilty).   

[davenportram]

1 hour ago, Tyler Durden said:

It was Pontius Pilate who ordered the crucifixion of Jesus there was no Caesar alive at the time of his death keen Bible student that I am

Wasn’t Tiberius Caesar Augustus emperor at the time of the crucifixion and very much alive.

[DCFC Kicks]

I've just had a look at the QPR forum and found this:

"if not said already, where has all their money gone from the play off final v us, clubs agreed losing team took the money, i think around £40m that's a chunk of dosh"

So apparently we've got £80m lying around somewhere from our two play-off finals 

[davenportram]

2 minutes ago, DCFC Kicks said:

I've just had a look at the QPR forum and found this:

"if not said already, where has all their money gone from the play off final v us, clubs agreed losing team took the money, i think around £40m that's a chunk of dosh"

So apparently we've got £80m lying around somewhere from our two play-off finals 

They’re idiots - £40m gate receipts?

[RandomAccessMemory]

1 minute ago, davenportram said:

They’re idiots - £40m gate receipts?

Big crowd ?

[GboroRam]

2 minutes ago, davenportram said:

They’re idiots - £40m gate receipts?

Better to get to the playoffs and just keep the gate money than get promoted then!

[Ram-Alf]

7 minutes ago, DCFC Kicks said:

I've just had a look at the QPR forum and found this:

"if not said already, where has all their money gone from the play off final v us, clubs agreed losing team took the money, i think around £40m that's a chunk of dosh"

So apparently we've got £80m lying around somewhere from our two play-off finals 

Ha, A know nothing football fan, The figure I believe was £6m in total for the QPR final.

[Elwood P Dowd]

34 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Thanks, but from the Middlesbrough statement it says 2nd para third sentence  :

"Without breaking the confidentiality of the proceedings, in simple terms, MFC allege Derby County and its directors systematically cheated under the P&S Rules and that such cheating affects the integrity of the competition"

https://www.mfc.co.uk/news/club-statement-Derby-county
 

So as I read it the claim is also against the directors. EFL for example  brought a claim against Sheff wed and Chansiri jointly, with Chansiri being charged with misconduct (found not guilty).   

As a Director you can set aside the protection of company limited liability, for instance if you issue a personal guarantee. 

Edited February 5, 2022 by Elwood P Dowd

[RoyMac5]

 

Edited February 5, 2022 by RoyMac5

[rammieib]

So question, do the EFL have within their powers the ability to sidestep arbitration and inform the relevant stakeholders (DCFC, Boro, WW maybe) that this will be done in court?

I think Boro will refuse, I think the EFL will refuse and we will go to a corrupt arbitration sitting and the future of the club will literally be determined by that panel.

Also as an aside, not much is being paid of the EFL rule about one member raising a claim against another member? I know MM referenced it in his statement but the rule was always there. So surely that rule alone is the first point in the panel and that should get it thrown out?

[Caerphilly Ram]

1 hour ago, GboroRam said:

This thread has taken an ecumenical turn of late.

[I know nuffin]

 I admire the work done by the fans and the group's especially black and white and Punjabi rams. More strength to their elbows. BUT last night on twitter Black and While invited Kirchener to speak on Monday night on a Twitter marketplace. The WHY is totally beyond me. Yesterday like him or not MM came in with an offer which might well save our Rams who are tottering on a knife edge of oblivion. As fans we need to be patient, let team Derby and the country's MPs, who are on our side, put pressure on the EFL Gibson and MM to get an agreement that his offer will bring us out of this nightmare. We certainly don't want anybody rocking the boat. I take it that CK is an honourable man but shall we say slightly miffed with people at Derby. What good can come out of letting him have free range on what he discloses some of which might start the boat rocking. I am all for free speach but lack and white PLEASE PLEASE rethink the wisdom behind you decision for Monday night and postpone it until after

 

 we are safe. He has had since December to air his feelings and hours after a possible step forward to save our team is scary to me. #savederbycounty

 

[Indy]

2 minutes ago, I know nuffin said:

 I admire the work done by the fans and the group's especially black and white and Punjabi rams. More strength to their elbows. BUT last night on twitter Black and While invited Kirchener to speak on Monday night on a Twitter marketplace. The WHY is totally beyond me. Yesterday like him or not MM came in with an offer which might well save our Rams who are tottering on a knife edge of oblivion. As fans we need to be patient, let team Derby and the country's MPs, who are on our side, put pressure on the EFL Gibson and MM to get an agreement that his offer will bring us out of this nightmare. We certainly don't want anybody rocking the boat. I take it that CK is an honourable man but shall we say slightly miffed with people at Derby. What good can come out of letting him have free range on what he discloses some of which might start the boat rocking. I am all for free speach but lack and white PLEASE PLEASE rethink the wisdom behind you decision for Monday night and postpone it until after

 

 we are safe. He has had since December to air his feelings and hours after a possible step forward to save our team is scary to me. #savederbycounty

 

100% agree. 
 

He walked out. He should shut the door behind him.