Rooney and his sidekick OUT NOW

[Andicis]

2 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

People like myself and @Jimbo Ram have acknowledged there has been an improvement.

Is 3 wins from 16 really ‘much better’ though?

If it was an experienced manager like Hughton or McCarthy in charge and they had overseen a similar run, it would be called for what it is.

Yes, it is much better. You have to consider that all records are relative. When you consider the behind the scenes turmoil, threadbare squad of aging journeymen without a proper striker, 3 wins and 8 draws is a decent points tally. 

It's really easy to say 3 wins from 16 is poor, but it's ridiculous to state it without then discussing the context behind the number. 

Hughton or McCarthy also would have been doing a good job with this points tally with this squad, this whataboutery is entirely irrelevant. 

[Jourdan]

Just now, plymouthram said:

So Rooney being a novice Manager suddenly has the nounce to find a brilliant new scout.

We as fans have questioned scouting and recruitment for years.

Rooney has been at Moor Farm day in day out for almost two years.

How could he miss the need for a change?

But then again I suppose it’s the same people who thought it was a good idea to bring him to the Championship on £70-100k a week, so he wouldn’t want to throw them under the bus, would he?

[sage]

We could only sign a limited amount of players, on one year or 6 month contracts, on 4.5k a week. Scouting my arse. What did people expect?  

What part of that do some of you not understand ffs

Edited November 3, 2021 by sage

[Jimbo Ram]

9 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Why is it you never actually address any of the points I make in your replies? As I clearly stated, my initial post was discussing how Rooney has done this season, you then started to reply to me about records pulling into last season, which again is completely irrelevant to the topic of the job he's done this season. Which, of course the record is very different to the one you've included. And how is it not skewed? Why are we using 32 games? On what basis? I can answer that one, it's the one which you can show Rooney looking worst over. It's a basic trick. It's disingenuous and you know it. 

You don't hope he turns it around at all, you've been baying for him for months. 

What utter tripe. You come out with dross statements of conjecture that nobody else could do any better and I present you with the facts that you find hard to swallow. This season he has won 3 in 16 hasn’t he? And don’t come out with the old chestnut that I want the team to fail, that really is the lowest of the low and a sign really that you have lost the argument.

[uttoxram75]

6 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

We as fans have questioned scouting and recruitment for years.

Rooney has been at Moor Farm day in day out for almost two years.

How could he miss the need for a change?

But then again I suppose it’s the same people who thought it was a good idea to bring him to the Championship on £70-100k a week, so he wouldn’t want to throw them under the bus, would he?

Its just possible that Rooney is not in a position throw the previous owner and 32red under a bus for paying his wages?

[Andicis]

Just now, Jimbo Ram said:

What utter tripe. You come out with dross statements of conjecture that nobody else could do any better and I present you with the facts that you find hard to swallow. This season he has won 3 in 16 hasn’t he? And don’t come out with the old chestnut that I want the team to fail, that really is the lowest of the low and a sign really that you have lost the argument.

I asked the question: Who do you think, with Derby's present budget and squad, could do better. You of course, never answered.

As I said to Jourdan, context is so important with statistics. Quoting the statistics without providing context will always be a disingenuous way to make a point.

You use random manipulated statistics to suit your points, since when have we measured in 32 game blocks?

''Lost the argument'' crikey me. 

[Jourdan]

3 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said:

Its just possible that Rooney is not in a position throw the previous owner and 32red under a bus for paying his wages?

But if he thought it would help the club moving forward, surely it would have been worth a try?

Everyone talks about the real success behind Brentford and the likes being good scouting and good recruitment.

It might have been a good place to start.

[Gritstone Tup]

59 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

That argument can never be proved or disproved unfortunately so is an easy statement to make. 

Try answering the question then?

[uttoxram75]

1 minute ago, Jourdan said:

But if he thought it would help the club moving forward, surely it would have been worth a try?

Everyone talks about the real success behind Brentford and the likes being good scouting and good recruitment.

It might have been a good place to start.

Sorry mate, you've completely confused me. Who do you think Rooney should throw under a bus. The people who paid his wages, Mel  Morris and the deal with 32Red or the scouting and recruitment team?

[Chris_Martin]

35 minutes ago, DCFC Kicks said:

I think it might be a case of teams just figuring out the tactics Rooney's been working on pre-season, we don't really have another way of playing. 

12 out the 16 games this season our opponent has played a back 3. I don't know if that's just how teams counter Derby specifically or if a back 3 is now the norm Championship formation but we struggle against it. 2 of our 3 wins this season came in the 4 games we played a back 4 team.

[Leeds Ram]

Last season there was absolutely no excuse for the shocking manner in which we almost got ourselves relegated. Those last 15 games alone should have been the end of Rooney and his spell at the club in any coaching capacity and it was nothing short of absolutely disgraceful. Fortunately for him we were and remain in such dire straits that he remains unsackable. This is why at the moment we might as well get behind him because no matter how poorly he does he'll still have a job if he wants it until a new owner comes in. I personally think his record here is indefensible just from the results he's achieved, after-all he must be the worst manager from that standpoint since I've supported the club. 

I think the points tally at the moment is about what is to be expected this season but what concerns me is no win in 6 and a tough next 4 games coming up that makes all this seem too reminiscent of last season. You can easily see us slumping into a death spiral where it's hard to see us actually winning a game of football. But relegation was always going to be likely with the squad we've got, I just hope when the new owner comes in they look beyond the star name and really weigh up if they think wayne is capable of putting together a winning team. 

[Jourdan]

8 minutes ago, sage said:

We could only sign a limited amount of players, on one year or 6 month contracts, on 4.5k a week. Scouting my arse. What did people expect?  

What part of that do some of you not understand ffs

Perhaps not sit around feeling sorry for ourselves? Perhaps show some imagination? Perhaps rise to the challenge?

We have been under restrictions, yes. But every scouting mission comes with parameters.

It’s not a temp job at Primark we’ve been recruiting for. It’s playing football for one of the most beloved clubs in the country.

We could have still found players if we were willing to try hard enough.

 

[Ramarena]

46 minutes ago, DCFC Kicks said:

I think it might be a case of teams just figuring out the tactics Rooney's been working on pre-season, we don't really have another way of playing. 

12 out the 16 games this season our opponent has played a back 3. I don't know if that's just how teams counter Derby specifically or if a back 3 is now the norm Championship formation but we struggle against it. 2 of our 3 wins this season came in the 4 games we played a back 4 team.

Underrated post. Shame this might get lost amongst the bickering.

[Jourdan]

7 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said:

Sorry mate, you've completely confused me. Who do you think Rooney should throw under a bus. The people who paid his wages, Mel  Morris and the deal with 32Red or the scouting and recruitment team?

My original point was questioning why he didn’t shake up scouting and recruitment upon getting the job permanently...

[sage]

3 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

Perhaps not sit around feeling sorry for ourselves? Perhaps show some imagination? Perhaps rise to the challenge?

We have been under restrictions, yes. But every scouting mission comes with parameters.

It’s not a temp job at Primark we’ve been recruiting for. It’s playing football for one of the most beloved clubs in the country.

We could have still found players if we were willing to try hard enough.

 

Name players who others ha e signed as a free, in August, on 6 or 12 month contracts on 4.5k a month or less. 

[Jimbo Ram]

7 minutes ago, Andicis said:

I asked the question: Who do you think, with Derby's present budget and squad, could do better. You of course, never answered.

As I said to Jourdan, context is so important with statistics. Quoting the statistics without providing context will always be a disingenuous way to make a point.

You use random manipulated statistics to suit your points, since when have we measured in 32 game blocks?

''Lost the argument'' crikey me. 

I am losing the will to live, what point are you trying to make? Rooney is a novice learning his trade as a Manager, making a lot of mistakes and errors as he goes. I would have gone for Paul Cook. He is now doing well at Ipswich and has done pretty well wherever he has been, even with little money to spend. But it’s conjecture, he might have done worse, he might have done better, who knows. Not worth even discussing. We can actually judge Wazza on his record, 13 wins in 54, 4 wins in 32 or 3 wins in 16, whichever fact you prefer, take your pick. In my view Managers need to earn the right to manage our great football club, Wazza (and Lampard, I felt the same when he was appointed) haven’t earned that right yet. Get your badges, get your experience in the lower leagues, prove yourself as a Manager and then look at becoming Rams boss. I am off to bed. 

[plymouthram]

1 minute ago, Jourdan said:

We as fans have questioned scouting and recruitment for years.

Rooney has been at Moor Farm day in day out for almost two years.

How could he miss the need for a change?

But then again I suppose it’s the same people who thought it was a good idea to bring him to the Championship on £70-100k a week, so he wouldn’t want to throw them under the bus, would he?

Its all down to recruiting better scouts (which cost money and Derby are a tad short of cash) and the purse is tightly shut. The same people got Rooney in on the Bet 32 deal who basically paid his wages. It's the manager's that agree to the scputs/recruitment choices on taking on new players. Poor old Rooney has not beeen able to have the cherry pick, more of Hobson's choice. Also Rooney has only been the sole manager for just over one year. Under Nigel Clough we had some good players come in, Chris Martin, Craig Forsyth, Dean Moxey, Jake Buxton, Shaun Barker, Tomasz Cywka, Jamie Ward and Craig Bryson. I think the biggest expense was £900k for Barker (who was involved with scouting/recruitment then, I don't know), But the manager must have had the last say.

[Andicis]

Just now, Jimbo Ram said:

I am losing the will to live, what point are you trying to make? Rooney is a novice learning his trade as a Manager, making a lot of mistakes and errors as he goes. I would have gone for Paul Cook. He is now doing well at Ipswich and has done pretty well wherever he has been, even with little money to spend. But it’s conjecture, he might have done worse, he might have done better, who knows. Not worth even discussing. We can actually judge Wazza on his record, 13 wins in 54, 4 wins in 32 or 3 wins in 16, whichever fact you prefer, take your pick. In my view Managers need to earn the right to manage our great football club, Wazza (and Lampard, I felt the same when he was appointed) haven’t earned that right yet. Get your badges, get your experience in the lower leagues, prove yourself as a Manager and then look at becoming Rams boss. I am off to bed. 

Quite a simple point really, if you think about it. All records provided are subject to the context which they find themselves. Getting a 50% win rate at Man City is poor. If Rooney got one with this Derby team he'd be the messiah. Paul Clement had a pretty decent win rate at Derby, but with all context surrounding it, didn't do a good job. 

I'm taking issue with your usage of statistics to make your points. 

The subjective bits, that's fine, that's your opinion. 

[Leeds Ram]

2 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Quite a simple point really, if you think about it. All records provided are subject to the context which they find themselves. Getting a 50% win rate at Man City is poor. If Rooney got one with this Derby team he'd be the messiah. Paul Clement had a pretty decent win rate at Derby, but with all context surrounding it, didn't do a good job. 

I'm taking issue with your usage of statistics to make your points. 

The subjective bits, that's fine, that's your opinion. 

Is there any context that means a 14% win rate over the equivalent of 2/3rds of a season is an acceptable performance though? I think that's a reasonable question to ask. 

[Ellafella]

1 hour ago, Jourdan said:

The worry for me is that when we hit a difficult spell, Rooney struggles to remedy the situation.

Six games without a win now. Performances on the downturn. It could be a very long winter.

I thought the performance was actually good tonight. Just one of those games…structurally awkward maybe ..,Ebs should start - such a threat & talent..Barnsley won without trying. Respectfully I was there, were you?