Olton Ram Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 2 hours ago, Gritstone Tup said: Why would he help us? We’re pissing him about again by questioning the efls authority over the 12pt deduction. The same arrogance from Morris is there with the administrator, as I’ve said before (and I know it isn’t popular on here), we all have to show some humility before we ask for help in anything we do. Crewton and Reggie Greenwood 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldben Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said: May I ask how you've calculated that valuation? Im estimating, Considering Derby don't own their stadium or training ground. Plus they owe more than 50 million debt. On top of that here's what clubs that don't have that much debt and own their stadium plus training ground are valued at in League One. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 It does happen. The new owners may take the risk because the value of the business after the deal with all of the key staff still employed/ motivated is worth much more than the same business without them or with bad morale. Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chester40 Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 Part of me is thinking we are hard to beat, within touching distance of the other teams, Rooney an international superstar is plugging away for us, the administrators are bullish about our chances of securing a new buyer and they are fighting the points deduction... The other part is thinking we can't score enough goals again this season, only 2 teams have won less games than us, and if Cardiff win their next game and we lose ...we will only have clawed back 3 points of the 12 already deducted and are 9 points adrift with another deduction to come... and a lot of positive talk from a couple of salesman trying desperately to look positive on the edge of the abyss suddenly ain't fooling anyone.... Probably just me though. Ramarena 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 39 minutes ago, Oldben said: Im estimating, Considering Derby don't own their stadium or training ground. Plus they owe more than 50 million debt. On top of that here's what clubs that don't have that much debt and own their stadium plus training ground are valued at in League One. Those 'club values' are based off the cumulative (Transfermarkt) value of the players Crewton, GenBr, r_wilcockson and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldben Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 35 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: Those 'club values' are based off the cumulative (Transfermarkt) value of the players Yes that's about all Derby would have to offer if relegated to League one, the cumulative value of players. Yet players would probably need to be sold to clear a chunk of the debt that Derby has. I'm not sure who would imagine Derby fetching above 10 million if relegated. Though I've picked 5 million for a reason, the cumulative value of players is unlikely to be worth that much if players are sold because of a need to ... 1) maybe buy back the stadium and training ground 2) clear a chunk of the debt 3) lose players due to relegation 4) then there's the cost of buying new players to consider I reckon 5 million if relegated and on that basis, is a fair price Very tough to get out of league one without a quality team, plus I think I'm right in saying salary restrictions only allow league one teams to spend upto a given budget that no team can breach and a restricted salary budget. Ghost of Clough 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 29 minutes ago, Oldben said: Yes that's about all Derby would have to offer if relegated to League one, the cumulative value of players. Yet players would probably need to be sold to clear a chunk of the debt that Derby has. I'm not sure who would imagine Derby fetching above 10 million if relegated. Though I've picked 5 million for a reason, the cumulative value of players is unlikely to be worth that much if players are sold because of a need to ... 1) maybe buy back the stadium and training ground 2) clear a chunk of the debt 3) lose players due to relegation 4) then there's the cost of buying new players to consider I reckon 5 million if relegated and on that basis, is a fair price Very tough to get out of league one without a quality team, plus I think I'm right in saying salary restrictions only allow league one teams to spend upto a given budget that no team can breach and a restricted salary budget. So a 30k fanbase and the future income that can generate would be worth a big fat zero? Reggie Greenwood 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenBr Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 10 minutes ago, PistoldPete said: So a 30k fanbase and the future income that can generate would be worth a big fat zero? Less than zero if we're not in the premier league. We're almost certainly going to be in league 1 next year. It doesnt matter how much income we've got coming in if we're losing money every month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 2 minutes ago, GenBr said: Less than zero if we're not in the premier league. We're almost certainly going to be in league 1 next year. It doesnt matter how much income we've got coming in if we're losing money every month. So how do dotcom companies get valued when they make losses every year. Based on future potential , not current loss making status. therealhantsram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 47 minutes ago, Oldben said: Yes that's about all Derby would have to offer if relegated to League one, the cumulative value of players. Yet players would probably need to be sold to clear a chunk of the debt that Derby has. I'm not sure who would imagine Derby fetching above 10 million if relegated. Though I've picked 5 million for a reason, the cumulative value of players is unlikely to be worth that much if players are sold because of a need to ... 1) maybe buy back the stadium and training ground 2) clear a chunk of the debt 3) lose players due to relegation 4) then there's the cost of buying new players to consider I reckon 5 million if relegated and on that basis, is a fair price Very tough to get out of league one without a quality team, plus I think I'm right in saying salary restrictions only allow league one teams to spend upto a given budget that no team can breach and a restricted salary budget. You should leave valuing companies to the experts ? Ram-Alf, PistoldPete, I know nuffin and 2 others 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram-Alf Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 5 minutes ago, GenBr said: Less than zero if we're not in the premier league. We're almost certainly going to be in league 1 next year. It doesnt matter how much income we've got coming in if we're losing money every month. Speculate to accumulate...just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 54 minutes ago, Oldben said: Yes that's about all Derby would have to offer if relegated to League one, the cumulative value of players. Yet players would probably need to be sold to clear a chunk of the debt that Derby has. I'm not sure who would imagine Derby fetching above 10 million if relegated. Though I've picked 5 million for a reason, the cumulative value of players is unlikely to be worth that much if players are sold because of a need to ... 1) maybe buy back the stadium and training ground 2) clear a chunk of the debt 3) lose players due to relegation 4) then there's the cost of buying new players to consider I reckon 5 million if relegated and on that basis, is a fair price Very tough to get out of league one without a quality team, plus I think I'm right in saying salary restrictions only allow league one teams to spend upto a given budget that no team can breach and a restricted salary budget. Even if we valued it on an asset basis:- Ground (freehold) £80m Training ground (leasehold) depends on terms of lease Players much lower than normal but I'd still estimate we could get £10m to £20m for the whole squad Less the reported debts of £60m So you'd be buying net assets of circa £50m That doesnt even factor in goodwill, assuming our model stays sustainable Cant for the life of me see how you would value the whole business at £5m I know nuffin, Reggie Greenwood and Andicis 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 4 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Even if we valued it on an asset basis:- Ground (freehold) £80m Training ground (leasehold) depends on terms of lease Players much lower than normal but I'd still estimate we could get £10m to £20m for the whole squad Less the reported debts of £60m So you'd be buying net assets of circa £50m That doesnt even factor in goodwill, assuming our model stays sustainable Cant for the life of me see how you would value the whole business at £5m Who do you think Gibson hired to value our ground at £20m ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenBr Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 37 minutes ago, PistoldPete said: So how do dotcom companies get valued when they make losses every year. Based on future potential , not current loss making status. Companies like twitter who earn billions of dollars a year without making a profit are a far cry from a mid sized, heavily indebted, english football club that is about to see its income significantly slashed. Us losing money constantly for almost all of the last 20 years is not going to add value when potential investors are valuing us. In a few years when we are back in the championship we might be capable of challenging the parachute teams again and there is an outside chance we might eventually get back to the prem, which is the only way we're really going to make any significant return for the investors jono 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 9 minutes ago, GenBr said: Companies like twitter who earn billions of dollars a year without making a profit are a far cry from a mid sized, heavily indebted, english football club that is about to see its income significantly slashed. Us losing money constantly for almost all of the last 20 years is not going to add value when potential investors are valuing us. In a few years when we are back in the championship we might be capable of challenging the parachute teams again and there is an outside chance we might eventually get back to the prem, which is the only way we're really going to make any significant return for the investors The real value of Derby is in its chance of getting to the Premiership via the play offs and the windfall it provides. Becoming a yo-yo club would be my three year target if I was buying it. jono 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 12 minutes ago, GenBr said: Companies like twitter who earn billions of dollars a year without making a profit are a far cry from a mid sized, heavily indebted, english football club that is about to see its income significantly slashed. Us losing money constantly for almost all of the last 20 years is not going to add value when potential investors are valuing us. In a few years when we are back in the championship we might be capable of challenging the parachute teams again and there is an outside chance we might eventually get back to the prem, which is the only way we're really going to make any significant return for the investors If we can get out of the bottom three by the international break then beating a further nine point deduction is not out of the question with 29 games still to play. RoyMac5 and I know nuffin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 Coventry and Luton are 5th and 6th today. We can get away draws against top teams. We must believe that we can keep the unbeaten run going. Colin needs to score some goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 26 minutes ago, GenBr said: Companies like twitter who earn billions of dollars a year without making a profit are a far cry from a mid sized, heavily indebted, english football club that is about to see its income significantly slashed. Us losing money constantly for almost all of the last 20 years is not going to add value when potential investors are valuing us. In a few years when we are back in the championship we might be capable of challenging the parachute teams again and there is an outside chance we might eventually get back to the prem, which is the only way we're really going to make any significant return for the investors Despite the wreckage , and strip away the debt there is so much that is attractive. The academy, the stadium, the fanbase (despite what you say). It needs a mighty restructuring financially. But the current squad shows how you can put together a perfectly competitve Championship squad which would , but for covid, now be making a profit in the championship. And then you have the golden ticket scenario which teams like Leicester have shown can happen. Ok winning the Premier League aint going to happen but Brighton are up there , Burnley I mean it is far from an impossible dream for a club like Derby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldben Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 2 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said: You should leave valuing companies to the experts ? Zero chance your that expert so who were you thinking of Reggie Greenwood 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yani P Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 You wouldn't want to read this thread if you were feeling a bit down would you ? jono and Rev 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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