Derby finally accept 21 point deduction.

[Tyler Durden]

7 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Hello Mr Pot. What Laziow has just described is almost exactly what I think too.

except that it is not technically correct to say that Mel Morris historic overspending has caused admin. It may be a contributory factor but that is all…and that is what the Wigan verdict said too.

And if ever was a post to reinforce the point you're making here it is.

I deliberately left the apportion of blame vague to avoid comments like this but you've gone straight for the jugular to read into my comments what you see fit. 

Hopefully this now totally underlines my reasons for not wanting to engage on this thread anymore.

[i-Ram]

21 minutes ago, Woodley Ram said:

Might be unpopular but factual. There is no doubt that we lost a significant sum during Covid but we were already on a slippery slop.  Yes Covid  exacerbated administration but unless drastic action was taken by Mel and Pearce that's where we were heading. The signing of players for £10m and £4m  sort of indicates that the they could not make those hard decisions and still wanted the dream of the prem.

We needed to take stock a couple of years ago and put in place a sustainable business plan, I don't think we did and it took an embargo for us to dramatically cut our costs

We did take stock a couple of years ago. Morris could see where it was all heading (other than COVID), and was desperate, very desperate, to sell, and to anyone. Hence his dealings with Christopher ‘The Magician’ Samuelson.

COVID actually has been helpful to us in my opinion. It led to what was needed (given the mess we were in) - a pruning of our player staff and other costs to appropriate levels, and the removal of our incompetent executive management team. We could have done without the 12point deduction penalty, but the mess was such that I can’t believe any ‘respectable’ buyer would have purchased the club from Morris. It needed astute, independent third party assessment and action, to clear the decks and give a solid base to whoever came next - both financially and via a reset with the EFL and its member clubs. I think Quantumna are doing what needs to be done to expedite a sale, and to satisfy the demands of the creditors. That is their job. Hopefully though they will also box off the overall position with the EFL, and find us an owner who will run our club like a business not like a train set.

[jono]

12 hours ago, uttoxram75 said:

For me, the EFL became the bad guys when they used the words "disappointed" and "regrettable" when one of their attempts to punish us failed. Its a governing body and should be ran as such, the use of such language turned it into a witch hunt imo.

None of that takes any blame from Mel, it just makes the EFL look like they are not bothered about the actual rules and whether we have broken them, but rather they want to punish us because we appear to have broken the rules and are under pressure from powerful lobbying from outside their organisation.

Plus I'm biased. ???

My view entirely 

[SirBrian]

Blame game for me one of the main culprits is Sam Rush, he was the best paid CEO in the championship, so should have guided the club into a stable and financialy sound club, but instead correct me if i am wrong, he had a 25% interest in a players agency where the club signed 8 or more players through that agency for £4 million plus each on staggering contracts 4 or 5 years on mickey mouse wages for their limited ability, did the club make any money on those players?

Sadly Mel at the start put his trust in alleged football advicers, for me he made a error with his advicers, no excuse for how he has left the club, lets hope a final twist he donates the ground to the new owners.

Sam Rush i for one do not want him near our club again.

[PistoldPete]

44 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

We did take stock a couple of years ago. Morris could see where it was all heading (other than COVID), and was desperate, very desperate, to sell, and to anyone. Hence his dealings with Christopher ‘The Magician’ Samuelson.

COVID actually has been helpful to us in my opinion. It led to what was needed (given the mess we were in) - a pruning of our player staff and other costs to appropriate levels, and the removal of our incompetent executive management team. We could have done without the 12point deduction penalty, but the mess was such that I can’t believe any ‘respectable’ buyer would have purchased the club from Morris. It needed astute, independent third party assessment and action, to clear the decks and give a solid base to whoever came next - both financially and via a reset with the EFL and its member clubs. I think Quantumna are doing what needs to be done to expedite a sale, and to satisfy the demands of the creditors. That is their job. Hopefully though they will also box off the overall position with the EFL, and find us an owner who will run our club like a business not like a train set.

Well I hope you are right. At this moment you would have to be very far sighted not to say extremely optimistic to imagine that COVID could end up ever being good for the club even in the long term.

 

A reset after financial excesses is by no means unusual. But Mel's historic overspending, COVID , penalty point deductions, transfer embargos and near certain relegation all seem to be an awful lot to recover from anytime soon.

But I agree, as I have with many other posters that the priority has to be securing a deal with the new owner.

 

Edited November 13, 2021 by PistoldPete

[PistoldPete]

11 minutes ago, SirBrian said:

Blame game for me one of the main culprits is Sam Rush, he was the best paid CEO in the championship, so should have guided the club into a stable and financialy sound club, but instead correct me if i am wrong, he had a 25% interest in a players agency where the club signed 8 or more players through that agency for £4 million plus each on staggering contracts 4 or 5 years on mickey mouse wages for their limited ability, did the club make any money on those players?

Sadly Mel at the start put his trust in alleged football advicers, for me he made a error with his advicers, no excuse for how he has left the club, lets hope a final twist he donates the ground to the new owners.

Sam Rush i for one do not want him near our club again.

I think you can add Paul Clement to that list too I think. Wasn't he a Wasserman client too, and the worst manager we had under Morris.

[Ram-Alf]

27 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

I think you can add Paul Clement to that list too I think. Wasn't he a Wasserman client too, and the worst manager we had under Morris.

Well yes, It took MM long enough to realise he wasn't playong the "Derby way" ?

[PistoldPete]

14 hours ago, uttoxram75 said:

For me, the EFL became the bad guys when they used the words "disappointed" and "regrettable" when one of their attempts to punish us failed. Its a governing body and should be ran as such, the use of such language turned it into a witch hunt imo.

None of that takes any blame from Mel, it just makes the EFL look like they are not bothered about the actual rules and whether we have broken them, but rather they want to punish us because we appear to have broken the rules and are under pressure from powerful lobbying from outside their organisation.

Plus I'm biased. ???

Not as biased as me. The EFL were the bad guys a long time before then for me. Charging us for the stadium sale and leaking to the press about how they had got an independent valuer.

[sage]

54 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

I think you can add Paul Clement to that list too I think. Wasn't he a Wasserman client too, and the worst manager we had under Morris.

I give you Nigel Pearson

[I know nuffin]

15 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

So according to you we had in 2017-18 £29 million revenue and I think it was higher in 2018-19 the last full year before COVID. Morris  said revenue dropped to little over £10m, mostly TV money. We lost revenue for a full 18 months , including bars and restaurants events etc for most of that 18 months. Not sure why you would query the lost revenue figure of £20 million.

 

I haven't convinced myself we would win the admin appeal nor have I suggested any conspiarcy about it. I don't know what the result would be. We may never know. If we pull out ouf the appeal it will be because the admin are trying to agree an overall settlement with EFL for everything, and rather take all the pain all at once rather than drag it on into the New year or even into next season. .that would only make sense if they have a buyer ready and willing to tak eover poretty much straight away. As i say we are agreed on that , it is the main thing, we need new owners and quickly. 

 

 

The EFL stated that we were funded on a benefactor system or words to that effect. We have been told the club revenue was down 20 million, what we don't know what effect covid had on Morris's income or value  that surely has to come into any calculation, direct loss and ability to replace it

[Elwood P Dowd]

14 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Not as biased as me. The EFL were the bad guys a long time before then for me. Charging us for the stadium sale and leaking to the press about how they had got an independent valuer.

There nothing dark about the EFL, as a body they are simply incompetent and unprofessional, being dark, manipulative and cunning requires planning and a clear objective, there is no evidence that the  EFL has any of these skills.

Remember these are the people that used Morecambe's ground as a price reference for Pride Park? 

[alram]

2 hours ago, i-Ram said:

We did take stock a couple of years ago. Morris could see where it was all heading (other than COVID), and was desperate, very desperate, to sell, and to anyone. Hence his dealings with Christopher ‘The Magician’ Samuelson.

COVID actually has been helpful to us in my opinion. It led to what was needed (given the mess we were in) - a pruning of our player staff and other costs to appropriate levels, and the removal of our incompetent executive management team. We could have done without the 12point deduction penalty, but the mess was such that I can’t believe any ‘respectable’ buyer would have purchased the club from Morris. It needed astute, independent third party assessment and action, to clear the decks and give a solid base to whoever came next - both financially and via a reset with the EFL and its member clubs. I think Quantumna are doing what needs to be done to expedite a sale, and to satisfy the demands of the creditors. That is their job. Hopefully though they will also box off the overall position with the EFL, and find us an owner who will run our club like a business not like a train set.

Spot on iram!

 

Mel has known this was coming a long time now, hence the people he was actually willing to sell the club too!

Although are the ones that are eyeing us up now much better?

[strawhillram]

1 hour ago, SirBrian said:

Blame game for me one of the main culprits is Sam Rush, he was the best paid CEO in the championship, so should have guided the club into a stable and financialy sound club, but instead correct me if i am wrong, he had a 25% interest in a players agency where the club signed 8 or more players through that agency for £4 million plus each on staggering contracts 4 or 5 years on mickey mouse wages for their limited ability, did the club make any money on those players?

Sadly Mel at the start put his trust in alleged football advicers, for me he made a error with his advicers, no excuse for how he has left the club, lets hope a final twist he donates the ground to the new owners.

Sam Rush i for one do not want him near our club again.

Í think mickey mouse is on good wages, no

[alram]

2 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

The signing of the two Polish players has still been balanced by transfer fees incoming over the past two years that are higher and definitely didn’t mean we were headed for admin 
 

I cannot defend the silly wages that we were paid at the height of our spending. Paying £2m a year in wages to workaday Championship players is just silly.

It was the wAge bill that caused the big losses … and that has come down massively. 
 

So all fine to criticise Mel for his poor judgement in spending money. But that didn’t cause us to go into admin.

you will defend mel if he had a shotgun in a room full of people with shotgun bullets inside them pete.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

49 minutes ago, sage said:

I give you Nigel Pearson

To be honest Pearson told it like it was in interview ' if I had 11 Craig Brysons this club would be top,  the players at the club aren't as good as they think they are or aren't willing to show the correct application.  24 HRs later the storming of the citadel lead by Captain Keogh and his removal. 

[Oldben]

4 hours ago, FindernRam said:

Doesn't this sound very familiar! Rich owner prepared to spend big to gamble on promotion. Mel Mk II just a lower start point.

When buying a football club, the first thing you want to know is a) What am I getting? 

and b) How much money will the club make?

“Derby County now have a 12-point penalty chance of avoiding relegation. 

With 21 points, it's pretty close to zero.

“And that would affect what a potential buyer is willing to pay. 

Would you pay £60m+ for a League One club? 

Unlikely, given that Derby County do not own their stadium and Mel Morris' position is unknown.

“It was his financial mismanagement that put the club into administration.

“He'll say it's not the EFL and Covid's fault.

The Derby fans must be gutted because Wayne Rooney has performed admirably in difficult circumstances.

If Kirchner is still interested, then go for it. 

If there is competition, do your homework and choose the best candidate. 

However, even though we will might be relegated to League 1 next season, January is the time to start cleaning up and planning for next season. 

Then let Wayne start assembling the team. 

We may still be able to stay in the Championship if the initial 12 are reduced by half on appeal and Wayne makes a few good signings.

Edited November 13, 2021 by Oldben
Added content

[sage]

8 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

To be honest Pearson told it like it was in interview ' if I had 11 Craig Brysons this club would be top,  the players at the club aren't as good as they think they are or aren't willing to show the correct application.  24 HRs later the storming of the citadel lead by Captain Keogh and his removal. 

or he tried to pay hoofball which ddn't suit the players and Anya was our worst signing of all time. 

[AndyinLiverpool]

2 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

I think you can add Paul Clement to that list too I think. Wasn't he a Wasserman client too, and the worst manager we had under Morris.

Where were we in the league when Clement was fired?

[Yani P]

1 hour ago, sage said:

I give you Nigel Pearson

Nicely played Top Trumps sir..

 

[RadioactiveWaste]

16 minutes ago, sage said:

or he tried to pay hoofball which ddn't suit the players and Anya was our worst signing of all time. 

I've mellowed towards him as time has gone by and in hindsight can see it was a wrong time wrong job situation...but my god I hated his time in charge of us.

I found it almost heartbreaking the trying to break one of the most exciting and creative teams in the division under the DazWaz/'arry run and still with much of the Mac 1 DNA into an utterly ineffective kick and rush team.

At least rowett made us an effective ugly team.