EFL Verdict

[RadioactiveWaste]

2 minutes ago, Reggie Greenwood said:

Mels problem is health not wealth. According to last rich list I saw he has same amount 500 odd million as when he took over. He has stated and I take him on his word ( I know others won’t ) that he will fund the club until a takeover happens. I take funding as keeping the club as a going concern doubt any big transfer budget just trading as we go. We have a low wage bill comparatively now so can’t see it being a big issue. 
Also as I understand it ( and I could be wrong ) the way the club is set up any debts are Mel’s not DCFC ?  

I thought there were debts against both PP adn Moor farm?

I'm glad Mel's apparently said he'll keep us afloat until sold. I thought it was worse than that and he wasn't going to keep funding us if we weren't. Happy to be wrong. ?

[Mucker1884]

12 hours ago, Pearl Ram said:

Not here to argue LCR but I went on the Bristol City forum earlier to get their take and someone on there quoted rule 28/2 (I think) and apparently the EFL have the power to suspend both ours and Wycombe’s games should they choose.

Remember, I’m not saying that can/will happen, it’s what I read on there tonight. It was news to me and something that came as a bit of a shock, I never new such a rule existed. 

It probably doesn't yet!  Give it a few days!  ?

[duncanjwitham]

6 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

I thought there were debts against both PP adn Moor farm?

There are, but they are "debts" not "DEBTS?". As far as we know (big proviso here, I know) they're basically loans, presumably with fixed payment schedules that we are (hopefully!) comfortable with.  It's not like we have creditors banging at our door for the cash. It's sort of the same as the difference between having a £50k mortgage on your house and having a £50k gambling debt on your credit cards.

[Eatonram]

16 hours ago, Eatonram said:

If 4000 supporters donate the price of one match ticket £25 we would raise the 100k. I would gladly do it. Think it would say a lot and raise a lot of positive publicity if paid with an open letter to the press stating our disgust at the way the efl are behaving. Any money raised over the target sum to be donated to breast and prostrate cancer research. I would gladly pay. 

This seemed to get at least a bit of support in principle. Would for example Rams Trust pick this up? Needs an organisation with existing banking facilities and contacts in the media. If it got going my money would be there before the end of the day. Even if it fails the money could go to the charities named and would still be a positive story where the EFL could be named and shamed. 

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

16 hours ago, Eatonram said:

If 4000 supporters donate the price of one match ticket £25 we would raise the 100k. I would gladly do it. Think it would say a lot and raise a lot of positive publicity if paid with an open letter to the press stating our disgust at the way the efl are behaving. Any money raised over the target sum to be donated to breast and prostrate cancer research. I would gladly pay. 

I’m in, I think this is a great idea 

[Foreveram]

4 minutes ago, Bald Eagle's Barmy Army said:

I’m in, I think this is a great idea 

Me too

[Long Time Lurker]

Eaton Ram's reference to Rams Trust has made me wonder whether we could get something out of the EFL through a letter along the lines of the one sent to the Club recently signed by Rams Trust, Punjabi Rams, Ryan Hills etc.  The letter could ask the EFL:

• How their approach meets with their stated aim of protecting clubs, particularly in respect of Derby.  Can they give any examples of where they have acted in good faith towards the club?
• What reassurances they can offer to DCFC staff whose jobs are under threat through the continued uncertainty
• Can they explain why an accounting technicality should lead to people losing their livelihoods, even when those people have had nothing to do with accounting procedures etc
• Is it their intention to continually appeal against any decision that does not go their way?  If so, can the explain the moral justification for such an approach?
• Can they also provide justification for deciding to reject an accounting practice that they had previously accepted when signing off the accounts?  Do they feel any responsibility for having made what they now seem to consider an error, and if so what redress are they making as a result?
• what, if any responsibility, do they feel towards the fans of DCFC, and do they understand the effect their actions are having on at least some of them?
• They have been reported to be keen to see Derby relegated.  Can they explain to the Derby fanbase whether this is in fact the case, and if so, their justification for acting in such a way?
• Etc
• Etc

I think a letter coming from specific groups rather than an individual stands a better chance of getting a response.  That response is very likely to be that it's all Derby's fault, and that people will lose their jobs etc due to the clubs actions etc, they have to be fair to the other clubs blah blah.  However, it may be worth a try?

[48 hours]

9 minutes ago, Foreveram said:

Me too

 ... and me !

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, Long Time Lurker said:

Eaton Ram's reference to Rams Trust has made me wonder whether we could get something out of the EFL through a letter along the lines of the one sent to the Club recently signed by Rams Trust, Punjabi Rams, Ryan Hills etc.  The letter could ask the EFL:

• How their approach meets with their stated aim of protecting clubs, particularly in respect of Derby.  Can they give any examples of where they have acted in good faith towards the club?
• What reassurances they can offer to DCFC staff whose jobs are under threat through the continued uncertainty
• Can they explain why an accounting technicality should lead to people losing their livelihoods, even when those people have had nothing to do with accounting procedures etc
• Is it their intention to continually appeal against any decision that does not go their way?  If so, can the explain the moral justification for such an approach?
• Can they also provide justification for deciding to reject an accounting practice that they had previously accepted when signing off the accounts?  Do they feel any responsibility for having made what they now seem to consider an error, and if so what redress are they making as a result?
• what, if any responsibility, do they feel towards the fans of DCFC, and do they understand the effect their actions are having on at least some of them?
• They have been reported to be keen to see Derby relegated.  Can they explain to the Derby fanbase whether this is in fact the case, and if so, their justification for acting in such a way?
• Etc
• Etc

I think a letter coming from specific groups rather than an individual stands a better chance of getting a response.  That response is very likely to be that it's all Derby's fault, and that people will lose their jobs etc due to the clubs actions etc, they have to be fair to the other clubs blah blah.  However, it may be worth a try?

They seem very good questions for fans to ask the EFL. I do wonder though if they'd feel that there was any reason for them to bother replying! 

[NottsRam77]

8 minutes ago, Long Time Lurker said:

Eaton Ram's reference to Rams Trust has made me wonder whether we could get something out of the EFL through a letter along the lines of the one sent to the Club recently signed by Rams Trust, Punjabi Rams, Ryan Hills etc.  The letter could ask the EFL:

• How their approach meets with their stated aim of protecting clubs, particularly in respect of Derby.  Can they give any examples of where they have acted in good faith towards the club?
• What reassurances they can offer to DCFC staff whose jobs are under threat through the continued uncertainty
• Can they explain why an accounting technicality should lead to people losing their livelihoods, even when those people have had nothing to do with accounting procedures etc
• Is it their intention to continually appeal against any decision that does not go their way?  If so, can the explain the moral justification for such an approach?
• Can they also provide justification for deciding to reject an accounting practice that they had previously accepted when signing off the accounts?  Do they feel any responsibility for having made what they now seem to consider an error, and if so what redress are they making as a result?
• what, if any responsibility, do they feel towards the fans of DCFC, and do they understand the effect their actions are having on at least some of them?
• They have been reported to be keen to see Derby relegated.  Can they explain to the Derby fanbase whether this is in fact the case, and if so, their justification for acting in such a way?
• Etc
• Etc

I think a letter coming from specific groups rather than an individual stands a better chance of getting a response.  That response is very likely to be that it's all Derby's fault, and that people will lose their jobs etc due to the clubs actions etc, they have to be fair to the other clubs blah blah.  However, it may be worth a try?

What a bloody good post and idea 

can we make this happen ? 

[Tamworthram]

16 minutes ago, 48 hours said:

 ... and me !

Me too.

[Eatonram]

7 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

What a bloody good post and idea 

can we make this happen ? 

Even better if you make it an open letter copied to the media and accompanied with a 100k cheque. We just need a coordinating organisation. 

[Indy]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

That perception is not in the rules, currently. Don't give a flying fook that they feel cheated, as has been said before they should watch out because with an EFL that sees itself as above the rules, they could be next. Divide and rule.

Exactly. Article in the Sheffield Star, and first quote is one of their fans saying Derby did ‘the same as them’ (ie some shenanigans around stadium sale) and should therefore get a points deduction. Total ignorance fuelling outrage. Should be ignored. 

Edited June 25, 2021 by Indy
Typo

[Ghost of Clough]

30 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

They seem very good questions for fans to ask the EFL. I do wonder though if they'd feel that there was any reason for them to bother replying! 

If it was an open letter with national papers reporting on it?

[RoyMac5]

21 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

If it was an open letter with national papers reporting on it?

For the nationals to report on it there'd have to be 'worthy clickbait' in it for them.

[Ted McMinn Football Genius]

It has occurred to me recently that The EFL could well be an organisation/ collective of Sociopaths, the reasoning behind this is as follows…..

Sociopaths make it plain that they’re not interested in anyone but themselves. They often blame others and have excuses for their behaviour.

Sound familiar?
eg; they Signed off on accounting practices over several seasons only to deny all knowledge further down the line etc etc etc

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

We need a respected sports journalist to put some time looking into all this and then write a damning article about the EFL. This has descended beyond chronic incompetence it is now nothing short of victimisation.

I repeat what I said on another thread. At this moment in time it is not established if we gained an unfair advantage regarding FFP as our revised accounts have not been submitted, so put that in the pending file! Regarding our lack of clarity in declaring out unique but legal amortisation policy we have been found guilty on appeal and fined £100k. End of!!

What the heck are Wycombe on about? IF and its a big IF we eventually fail FFP when our accounts are submitted then blame the EFL for taking too long to sort it out but what has that got to do with DCFC?  

[Van der MoodHoover]

2 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

For P&S overspend there is a max punishment of 21 points - 12 for the actual overspend, plus up to 9 for being naughty

So my understanding was that the 12 component was a sliding scale defined in the rules. 

I didnt know about the the arbitrary 9 but if we took Wednesday as a benchmark then they obviously and clearly misrepresented a years accounts but in total got a penalty of 6, of which at least 3 must have been the overrun, so it suggests 3 at most for "naughtiness". 

So if we find ourselves on the right side of the p&l numbers, does the naughty bit fall away completely or could the EFL try to land us with a 9 point deduction just because.?

[RadioactiveWaste]

8 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

So my understanding was that the 12 component was a sliding scale defined in the rules. 

I didnt know about the the arbitrary 9 but if we took Wednesday as a benchmark then they obviously and clearly misrepresented a years accounts but in total got a penalty of 6, of which at least 3 must have been the overrun, so it suggests 3 at most for "naughtiness". 

So if we find ourselves on the right side of the p&l numbers, does the naughty bit fall away completely or could the EFL try to land us with a 9 point deduction just because.?

Yes, they will.

[BramcoteRam84]

7 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

So my understanding was that the 12 component was a sliding scale defined in the rules. 

I didnt know about the the arbitrary 9 but if we took Wednesday as a benchmark then they obviously and clearly misrepresented a years accounts but in total got a penalty of 6, of which at least 3 must have been the overrun, so it suggests 3 at most for "naughtiness". 

So if we find ourselves on the right side of the p&l numbers, does the naughty bit fall away completely or could the EFL try to land us with a 9 point deduction just because.?

I’m starting think this is all a play by the EFL to stir up as much discontent and anti-Derby feeling as possible to influence the LAP to give us a 9 point penalty for deliberately misleading them, because they know when we re-do our accounts we would still comply? ?