Our Recruitment Is To Blame

[Taribo]

I wish we could spot a lower league gem, just one, just once, please 

[Spanish]

2 minutes ago, Taribo said:

I wish we could spot a lower league gem, just one, just once, please 

Marriott until we got our hands on him.

 

[oldtimeram]

1 hour ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

Can  you explain what you mean by that exactly?

Really??

[NottsRam77]

On 03/05/2021 at 14:52, Shaftesbury st said:

Brentford operate on a totally different model to us, well publicised statistical policy on recruitment. Whilst this has proved financially successful it hasn’t got them promotion ( yet ) but I’ve no doubt it will. 
The policy also means they will always sell one major asset each season, we haven’t always done that and have tended to hold on to players running down their value.

Your analysis is pretty hard to argue with, Brentford are run so much better than ourselves in many ways.
 

  

And on the handful of occasions we get an asset we give them away for comparatively buttons 

edit: ok I’m referring mainly to the hughes deal ... and yes im still pissed about that 

Edited May 21, 2021 by NottsRam77

[Dean (hick) Saunders]

We have been hindered by moneybags Derby in transfer dealings as well .

Eg. Ollie Watkins wanted to come to Derby and probably had agreed in principle wages. But price could not be agreed with his team. Ends up going to Brentford for lower fee than Derby has actually offered and lower wages (probably).

Expect the Derby price vs “smaller teams” price issue has come up numerous times.

Not arguing that recruitment is not ? by the way, just that it can be harder for the bigger teams sometimes

[ilkleyram]

It’s all well and good criticising the recruitment team but none of us know very much about the restrictions under which they’ve been operating nor the players they have identified and which have been rejected by the club or who have chosen to go elsewhere.

Since Nigel left in 2013, 8 years ago, we’ve had 11 managers (or eight if you agree that Wassall (twice) and Chris Powell were temporary appointments). One of Wassall’s acting up periods though involved more matches than Nigel Pearson’s reign.  The longest serving manager after Steve Mac 1 (October 2013 – May 2015/95 matches) was Cocu (July 2019 – November 2020/65 matches). And that’s before we even start to factor in FFP and transfer embargos that we’ve known nothing about.

Apart from Mel’s stated aim/vision/strategy, call it what you like, of having 50% of the matchday squad from the academy, is it any wonder why our actual recruitment has been patchy?  All of those managers have been backed by Mel (including Rooney) but each has had their own ideas about how they wanted us to play, what was needed and, no doubt, their own ideas about how good some of the academy products were or how ready for first team action they were.

And none of us know whether our recruitment team have actually identified the gems from lower leagues or others that have done well elsewhere.  It was Mel’s complaint, for example, that players (or their agents or the selling club) immediately raised the price once they knew Derby was bidding.  Some complain about Mel’s financial stewardship but perhaps he would have been correct to say ‘no, too much’ on some occasions.

It’s not the recruitment team’s job to choose the players to buy and to sign them up – that’s the job of the manager and CEO (Rush or Pearce) respectively, signed off (I presume) by Mel.  It’s the recruitment team’s job to identify the players that might be available, who might meet the manager’s wishes and perhaps some worth watching for the future, to allow the manager and club a choice. I dare say they also work at Academy level as well as first team, and they haven’t done too badly there.

So before we churn out the usual ‘they must do better/sack the lot of them’, perhaps we should have half a thought about the restrictions under which they have been working.

 

 

[Chris_Martin]

3 hours ago, DCFClks said:

What do our recruitment team actually do?

 

[Tyler Durden]

Makes me chuckle the comments on here saying the recruitment team aren't to blame due to the massive number of managerial changes they've had to deal with and different managers trying different systems. Then I see that extensive list of players we've signed at huge cost where we have got exactly zero pounds back against the original outlay. Go figure that one out. 

[Abu Derby]

It can be done, look at the gems that Brian Clough, Arthur Cox, Jim Smith and Nigel Clough found. 
A whole lot better than most of the “finds” in our recent past. 

[LeedsCityRam]

28 minutes ago, Dean (hick) Saunders said:

We have been hindered by moneybags Derby in transfer dealings as well .

Eg. Ollie Watkins wanted to come to Derby and probably had agreed in principle wages. But price could not be agreed with his team. Ends up going to Brentford for lower fee than Derby has actually offered and lower wages (probably).

Expect the Derby price vs “smaller teams” price issue has come up numerous times.

Not arguing that recruitment is not ? by the way, just that it can be harder for the bigger teams sometimes

This is a very fair point. Problem is we contributed to this with our 'big spending' reputation which the club were only too keen to broadcast to all & sundry - pretty ridiculous when then sitting down for negotiations on players. Exeter knew exactly what our approach was at the time & so asked for twice the price Watkins eventually went to Brentford for.

This is precisely why I can't stand the big time, celebrity managing nonsense we've become. The only thing we should be well known for is the quality of our team but ironically that is the only thing we're not known for. And until we have a decent team, we're vulnerable so we should really keep our head down & build on the quiet. 

[ilkleyram]

20 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Makes me chuckle the comments on here saying the recruitment team aren't to blame due to the massive number of managerial changes they've had to deal with and different managers trying different systems. Then I see that extensive list of players we've signed at huge cost where we have got exactly zero pounds back against the original outlay. Go figure that one out. 

You're an intelligent as well as chuckling guy @Tyler Durden so you can surely understand that the decision as to how much players are signed for and paid, when players leave and at what price or whether contracts are extended or run down is nothing to do with the recruitment team.  It's just not their job.

And I'm surprised if you can't understand that having (on average) a new manager every year for the last 8 years doesn't have an impact on the recruitment team and the players we have (and have not) signed.  Every single manager will have had their own (and probably different) view of every single player in the club, never mind any prospective signing. 

[DCFC Kicks]

25 minutes ago, ilkleyram said:

Since Nigel left in 2013, 8 years ago, we’ve had 11 managers (or eight if you agree that Wassall (twice) and Chris Powell were temporary appointments).

Brentford have had 7 managers since 2013, only 1 less. Swansea have had 9, Forest have had about 14. That doesn't affect buying players with sell on value. 

 

1 hour ago, ilkleyram said:

Mel’s stated aim/vision/strategy, call it what you like, of having 50% of the matchday squad from the academy, is it any wonder why our actual recruitment has been patchy?

That wasn't always Mel's vision. He only did that because the 15/16 spend gamble failed and we didn't have another option.

 

1 hour ago, ilkleyram said:

And none of us know whether our recruitment team have actually identified the gems from lower leagues or others that have done well elsewhere.  It was Mel’s complaint, for example, that players (or their agents or the selling club) immediately raised the price once they knew Derby was bidding.  Some complain about Mel’s financial stewardship but perhaps he would have been correct to say ‘no, too much’ on some occasions.

It’s not the recruitment team’s job to choose the players to buy and to sign them up – that’s the job of the manager and CEO (Rush or Pearce) respectively, signed off (I presume) by Mel.  It’s the recruitment team’s job to identify the players that might be available, who might meet the manager’s wishes and perhaps some worth watching for the future, to allow the manager and club a choice. I dare say they also work at Academy level as well as first team, and they haven’t done too badly there.

So before we churn out the usual ‘they must do better/sack the lot of them’, perhaps we should have half a thought about the restrictions under which they have been working.

I'm not talking about the scouting/recommendations. I'm talking about the buying and selling of players as a whole is the problem, if Mel or whoever aren't listening to there recommendations what's the point of them being there at all? If all the recruitment teams job is t identify players who are available then that's a massive problem, they should be working with data analysists, coaches etc to target specific players and it should be a unanimous decision.

[RoyMac5]

9 minutes ago, DCFClks said:

I'm not talking about the scouting/recommendations. I'm talking about the buying and selling of players as a whole is the problem, if Mel or whoever aren't listening to there recommendations what's the point of them being there at all?

Surely just as much if not more, it's wages that are the 'elephant in the room' here? Some of what we offered bordered on lunacy. 

[Tyler Durden]

27 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Surely just as much if not more, it's wages that are the 'elephant in the room' here? Some of what we offered bordered on lunacy. 

Yer I agree the wages just compounded the problem with crap recruitment. A lot of the players we bought for large transfers fees we were never going to recoup a lot back from the fee as we massively overpaid on the back of one good performance and the fact that no club would then match their wages anyway was just the nail in the coffin. 

[kevinhectoring]

On 03/05/2021 at 15:07, hintonsboots said:

Are we cursed ?

Oh hadn’t you heard ?

[thelovebelow]

Where did burley find all those players for peanuts? Whose recruitment was that? 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

26 minutes ago, thelovebelow said:

Where did burley find all those players for peanuts? Whose recruitment was that? 

They kept increasing there offer for Hendrick and Vydra by 100 quid a week till eventually we gave up to make them go away. Almost got Bryson for a tenner as well, till we gave him a big pay increase.

Oh not Burnley.

He had years of coaching experience and contacts around Europe, not Alex Fergusons number on a torn beer mat. 

Edited May 21, 2021 by Gee SCREAMER !!