Rooney: "A change was needed"

[brady1993]

4 minutes ago, DC-1975 said:

I suppose we'll just have to wait and see, he might even stop playing if appointed manager. You are right, I can't think of many examples of player managers recently, but that doesn't mean it can't work. The number of people on the coaching staff nowdays would easily cover when needed.

 

 

(@David was planning on quoting you this as well but my phone is acting awkward)

Just because we don't know something for certain doesn't mean we can attempt to assess likelihood of success.

We are currently sat it in a precarious position and need to rapidly course correct. Any manager coming in needs to make their mark rapidly and have a crystal clear idea of what they want to do. Their is little from error. All of that is why I think any manager with zero experience would be super risky right now. A new manager tends to need time to ease into the job and get their feet under the table,they are likely to make mistakes and learn as they go. We cannot afford that right now.

Rooney as a player has been at best mediocre this season and should be far from guaranteed a place in the starting 11. But as a player manager their is a high degree of probability that he selects himself regardless of form. I don't say that as if he'd be doing as an ego trip but you don't get to where Rooney has been without being confident in your own ability. I just think it's likely that he'd back himself to play through a tricky patch of form regardless of it being a correct decision and he will not really be answerable to anyone for that decision. There are just inherent issues with a player manager as it's a position with a compromised view point. 

I just don't see how all those factors wouldn't scream "likely disaster". Personally I don't Rooney as manager right now is a good idea full stop but it's a better idea than as player manager. 

[minesahartington]

One plus is that Rooney is the only person in the club who actually knows what it takes and how hard you need to work to have success. Consistently.

[Sith Happens]

Having read the comments on here I have come to the  conclusion that anything less than rooney being tortured into admitting responsibility in the centre circle before the next game will be inadequate. 

I'm thinking Captain Picard in Tng episode chain of command...

[dabber]

I guess the proof of the pudding will be in the eating...

When Rooney first arrived he was definitely part of the solution, post-shutdown he was part of the problem, remains to be seen how it plays out now. If his ideas were shot down by the Dutchmen lately then perhaps we will see a difference

[Leeds Ram]

It does not sit well with me that he's essentially stuck the boot in on a departed manager whilst simultaneously basically saying he wants the job as he's ambitious. He may well think that the manager made it too complicated but he did not need to say it was time for Cocu to go as the people who need to know his thoughts (playing staff and ownership) will be well aware of what he thinks. Sums up a consistent issue in his career which is a lack of actual loyalty and putting himself first.  

[JohnHarkes]

12 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said:

why on earth would he think that?

He absolutely wouldn’t think that, which is my point. 

[Topram]

15 minutes ago, angieram said:

He was one seventh of Cocu's coaching staff, so takes one seventh of the blame at worst. 

Not getting at you Topram but I have only read three pages of this thread so far and there's more conspiracy theories in here than a little! 

Am I the only person left in the world that's so naive that I take things at face value?

 

 

I totally understand I’m probably over thinking it but i don’t think it helped Cocu, we’ve been poor he’s not helped on the pitch, did he really help off it?

[Day]

5 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

(@David was planning on quoting you this as well but my phone is acting awkward)

Just because we don't know something for certain doesn't mean we can attempt to assess likelihood of success.

We are currently sat it in a precarious position and need to rapidly course correct. Any manager coming in needs to make their mark rapidly and have a crystal clear idea of what they want to do. Their is little from error. All of that is why I think any manager with zero experience would be super risky right now. A new manager tends to need time to ease into the job and get their feet under the table,they are likely to make mistakes and learn as they go. We cannot afford that right now.

Rooney as a player has been at best mediocre this season and should be far from guaranteed a place in the starting 11. But as a player manager their is a high degree of probability that he selects himself regardless of form. I don't say that as if he'd be doing as an ego trip but you don't get to where Rooney has been without being confident in your own ability. I just think it's likely that he'd back himself to play through a tricky patch of form regardless of it being a correct decision and he will not really be answerable to anyone for that decision. There are just inherent issues with a player manager as it's a position with a compromised view point. 

I just don't see how all those factors wouldn't scream "likely disaster". Personally I don't Rooney as manager right now is a good idea full stop but it's a better idea than as player manager. 

Not sure how we can assess the likelihood of success, we can make predictions but they can go either way. 

You could say we’ll go down with Rooney in charge, I can say we’ll go top 6. Chances are it will be somewhere in between. 

Let’s not forget 90% of this forum thought Pearson would be successful.

Success is also not down to one man, the players are also responsible, listening to the interview on the club site where they mention Tom Lawrence turning up for training early, it sounds like the players are on board.

Managing the dressing room is a huge part of the job, lose that and it doesn’t matter how much experience or tactical knowledge you have, the players won’t respond.

If anyone could truly predict how this will turn out, let me know this weeks lottery numbers and I’ll invest the winnings in the club and try to get you a seat on the board.

[MuespachRam]

After watching the interview with him and Rosenior I am even more in favour of Rooney taking that job full time. He spoke really well and the two of them had definite plans. 
 

Wayne Rooney Derby county manager... just let that sink in... THE best striker EVER in an England shirt and a Manchester United shirt.... bring It on..! 

[Steve How Hard?]

It's pretty futile discussing or even speculating how we got to this point. We'll never get to a conclusion. The main point is that we're in a big hole that we need to climb out of ASAP. Ok, we as fans can't affect that outcome in the current climate like we normally could but what we need more than anything is unity especially from within the club.

With that in mind I'm gonna be open minded about the up and coming games. All the uncertainty surrounding the club is worrying but there is nothing we can do to change that. I'm looking forward to watching the games again. Let's face it, things have got to change for the better eventually. Hopefully it starts this weekend. UTR.

[Topram]

When Rooney said we will see after the next 2/3 games suggest they’ve given them 3 games win them They get the Job

[brady1993]

6 minutes ago, David said:

Not sure how we can assess the likelihood of success, we can make predictions but they can go either way. 

You could say we’ll go down with Rooney in charge, I can say we’ll go top 6. Chances are it will be somewhere in between. 

Let’s not forget 90% of this forum thought Pearson would be successful.

Success is also not down to one man, the players are also responsible, listening to the interview on the club site where they mention Tom Lawrence turning up for training early, it sounds like the players are on board.

Managing the dressing room is a huge part of the job, lose that and it doesn’t matter how much experience or tactical knowledge you have, the players won’t respond.

If anyone could truly predict how this will turn out, let me know this weeks lottery numbers and I’ll invest the winnings in the club and try to get you a seat on the board.

You can make a reasonable guess at how likely someone is to succeed based on the information you have available about that person, their past experience and the job they'd need to do. 

For example you could pick a manager at complete random from the fan base and you can pretty reasonable conclude it's likely to fail. It's not a certainty but it doesn't matter because you try your best to pick the individual who is most likely to bring success. 

Honestly I think the Pearson appointment was relatively predictable in that it wasn't the best idea albeit not to the degree of turned out to be and I think he largely rowed in on success that wasn't his.

Now I'll admit there are key bits of information missing here to make a complete judgement namely stuff you just can't see as fan; how they interview (as in for th job), how are they as a coach And what's their player rapport. But as an outsider looking in it doesn't seem smart.

The lottery is poor example to bring up because it's close to being a completely random event where managerial success isn't. Poker would be a better example i.e. a game of incomplete information but one where you can estimate success.

[DarkFruitsRam7]

33 minutes ago, minesahartington said:

One plus is that Rooney is the only person in the club who actually knows what it takes and how hard you need to work to have success. Consistently.

Not sure I agree with that. Success is relative.

Rooney is clearly a natural talent. It seems he combined that talent with hard work to make it as an elite footballer.

Liam Rosenior, Martyn Waghorn, etc, have been far more successful in life than the average person. I imagine they got where they were/are by working hard day in day out to carve a career in their dream profession. As a result, they’ve probably reached their natural ceiling which, to me, is success.

[RoyMac5]

37 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

Sums up a consistent issue in his career which is a lack of actual loyalty and putting himself first.  

Rosenoir said similar.

[Abu Derby]

A lot of folks on here will be eating their words if he proves to be successful. 
Let’s just wait and see how it pans out. 

[wollatonram]

1 hour ago, brady1993 said:

Also just because we don't know doesn't mean you can't take educated guesses and attempt to figure out what the likelihood of success is.

You can defend anything by the argument "well we don't know till it happens".

 

Now is not the time to risk things going belly up. 

You can be a good manager but not have the experience or know how to manage players or turn teams around in a slump. It's a completely different skillset. It is why there is so many firefighter managers around like Pulis / Allardyce.

The next appointment should be a low risk appointment, a safe pair of hands that has been there and done it before.

[wollatonram]

7 minutes ago, Abu Derby said:

A lot of folks on here will be eating their words if he proves to be successful. 
Let’s just wait and see how it pans out. 

I will happily eat my words if he's a success, but see the writing on the wall.

I just don't think now is the time to take a punt. We are bottom of the League, there will be no bedding in period for a manager.

[bucktwo]

4 hours ago, Cam the Ram said:

Not a huge fan of the current situation and that press conference has done little to change that.

Liam was a little less direct than Rooney but it sounds like he'd be interested in the job. So these 2 as part of the management team will have to work together for the good of the club whilst competing for the same job. Add to that the fact 1 of them is the captain and it would surely be very difficult and awkward if the other management team members suggested the team was better off with Rooney not in it. If there's a massive upturn in results and performances, who gets the job? Rosenior is more qualified but Rooney is the bigger name.

Things are never straightforward with this club. ?

Both . Joint managers ... R&R just like Rolls & Royce .....back to the big time guys ... enjoy the ride !!!!

[Jourdan]

Watching the pre-match interviews just reaffirms to me that the club needs a complete shake up.

You can definitely tell something unsavoury has gone on behind the scenes.

Look at how uncomfortable and agitated Rosenior comes across. When he is not answering questions, he is squirming. It is very noticeable and uncharacteristic of him. 

Clear the decks for me. I don’t mind people having ambition, wanting to get ahead, trying to progress to the best job possible, but at what cost?

Unlike in other industries where it might be OK to have staff all gunning for the same job, this situation is different. Where the coaching and management staff are concerned, I think you need a united front and everyone pulling in the same direction.

It’s understandable that Rooney and Rosenior would have their eyes on the job, but it does make me wonder how much of a contributing factor it had to Cocu’s demise and if it will have a destabilising effect moving forward.

Let’s see how it goes on Saturday, but I am not hopeful.

[RoyMac5]

Been thinking about what was said at the presser again.

I'm impressed that Rooney came out and told it like it was - he could have just smarmed a bit and tried not to say too much. He also came out and confirmed that he'd made no secret of the fact he was here to learn his new trade ie football manager.

Rosenoir also spoke well but for me was less forthright, ie he'd like to be a manager one day. But he came across as well-spoken and 'up for the fight'.

It'll be interesting how the next few games go. It could be that they'd make a good pairing?