Sack cocu

[Jourdan]

4 hours ago, cheron85 said:

I'm not completely naive and I agree that it's been a poor start - But I don't think anyone in or around the club 'wrote off' the opening games - But with the player issues we've had and the clubs we've had to face so far I disagree that it's shocking

I think it's shocking that Reading are top of the league by miles - Yet no-one seems to be accounting for how well they've started when judging our results

Availability 

By all accounts we snapped up Ibe and Duncan pretty much as soon as they were considering offers - Oddly enough you can't sign players before they're willing to talk to you...

CKR was obviously a last minute call based on not landing Dursan

You can only improve by adding quality - We didn't have the money to go out and get it until we sold Bogle and Lowe - Once we did we've added quality - Do you think players of the standard of Jozwiak and Ibe are easy to find? Lawrence's grow on trees? 

What we sorely missed last season was the kind of quality we had on loan under Lampard - And Cocu has (I think) added that in Jozwiak and Ibe - But it's going to take time for them to get up to speed and/or fit

Is Reading being top that shocking? There is always an opportunist that rises from the usual mid-table pack. They have an excellent blend of pace, power, youth and athleticism - the kind which suits this division and sometimes it needs a catalyst to click.

But bear in mind, they have played Rotherham, Wycombe and Barnsley at home - three games that most established teams at this level would be rubbing their hands together at and be disappointed not to win. It’s an easy nine points for any side worth their salt. 

Add in Cardiff, Blackburn and us who are all typical Championship teams - wildly unreliable. You don’t know what you are going to get from one game to the next. So far, Sheff Wed have won at Cardiff and Forest have won at Blackburn - so hardly formidable teams at home.

So besides beating Watford at home, is it that impressive?

Everyone loves Jozwiak and everyone understands that the club did everything they could to get the deal over the line and we were all satisfied with the club’s efforts, especially knowing that he could come straight in having played for Lech early in the season. He has been a real find - no one has suggested otherwise.

Here, we are talking about Ibe, Duncan and Kazim-Richards - none of whom would have required otherworldly scouting to identify and all of whom clearly carried risk for us once signing them.

For me, I wouldn’t have taken those gambles and sought out players who could give us a more immediate shot in the arm. It remains to be seen if they’ll offer the quality you suggested and be worth the wait.

[G-Ram]

It's a bit of a strange one. The shifting deadwood, lowering the wages & promoting youth are all positives. Throw in addressing the keeper issue & bringing in some good exciting talent in ibe & jozwiak with the players we have it feels like we could have a good season & almost getting there. For that he's done a good job. 

The results however have been totally unacceptable & some of the substitutions & tactics have been mind boggling. Throw in some disgraceful performances & its easy to see why people want him gone. 

He's a nice bloke & a likable guy. Usually when i want a manager gone like pearson i hate their guts. So its hard to dislike the guy. 

Think we'd all want nothing more than it to work for phil but the clubs interests have to come first. Results haven't been good enough & being a nice chap doesn't win football games. 

I'd rather it got better & worked out but feel we have gone backwards & cant see it. There is a lot more potential in this team than he's getting out of it. 

 

[RamNut]

12 minutes ago, G-Ram said:

I'd rather it got better & worked out but feel we have gone backwards & cant see it. There is a lot more potential in this team than he's getting out of it. 

 

Well....It’s only football. We can’t be getting all agitated about it. 

[europia]

17 minutes ago, G-Ram said:

It's a bit of a strange one. The shifting deadwood, lowering the wages & promoting youth are all positives. Throw in addressing the keeper issue & bringing in some good exciting talent in ibe & jozwiak with the players we have it feels like we could have a good season & almost getting there. For that he's done a good job. 

The results however have been totally unacceptable & some of the substitutions & tactics have been mind boggling. Throw in some disgraceful performances & its easy to see why people want him gone. 

He's a nice bloke & a likable guy. Usually when i want a manager gone like pearson i hate their guts. So its hard to dislike the guy. 

Think we'd all want nothing more than it to work for phil but the clubs interests have to come first. Results haven't been good enough & being a nice chap doesn't win football games. 

I'd rather it got better & worked out but feel we have gone backwards & cant see it. There is a lot more potential in this team than he's getting out of it. 

 

Agree with your comments. Probably a dilemma for Mr Morris who in the past would have already pulled the trigger. All things considered; lack of funds for a decent striker, injuries, opposition we've played so far etc,  still, we really ought to have another 4-6 points on the table at this stage. 

[Rev]

1 hour ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

The fans reaction would be,Christ,can you imagine

It would be incredibly hard to ignore results in the above case, almost impossible I'd guess.

Maybe Phillip is actually lucky in some ways!

 

[MuespachRam]

5 hours ago, Curtains said:

What’s Mel done wrong .

We have been cleared by an independent panel. 

Michael Jackson was cleared...so was OJ....

[Derbyram1983]

1 hour ago, europia said:

Agree with your comments. Probably a dilemma for Mr Morris who in the past would have already pulled the trigger. All things considered; lack of funds for a decent striker, injuries, opposition we've played so far etc,  still, we really ought to have another 4-6 points on the table at this stage. 

True. And those 4-6 points are where the refs have shafted us like against forest. I reckon by the time we’ve played Wycombe and Coventry we’ll know whether or not cocu should be the man to lead us. Yes we’ve had bad luck but that’s in the past. We nearly have a fully fit squad to choose from. 

[RamNut]

4 hours ago, MuespachRam said:

Michael Jackson was cleared...so was OJ....

OJ was found guilty second time

[Jubbs]

11 hours ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

The fans reaction would be,Christ,can you imagine

I can, but I think you're missing my point. If the fans were there, they would be giving a boost to the players. It's no surprise that since no fans have been allowed in, Derby, Forest and Sheffield Wednesday are in the bottom 5 for points won at home. Is that a coincidence or is it a factor of not having fans in? 

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

5 minutes ago, Jubbs said:

I can, but I think you're missing my point. If the fans were there, they would be giving a boost to the players. It's no surprise that since no fans have been allowed in, Derby, Forest and Sheffield Wednesday are in the bottom 5 for points won at home. Is that a coincidence or is it a factor of not having fans in? 

It's a scientific fact (an American study) that having home fans is an advantage but it's primarily down to referee intimidation rather than cheering your team on.

Having said that,the crowd can clearly also enthuse a team but it's not the major factor.

In respect of Derby,my point was that if we had been getting the results we have been since the beginning of the covid crisis,in front of a home crowd,it would have been pretty horrible and no doubt put more pressure on the boss and perhaps more so Mel,home and away.

[cheron85]

16 hours ago, Mostyn6 said:

Do you think Cocu dismissed doing similar? Lacks the contacts? Lacks the vision? 

I think last season it was timing - We brought in a couple of loan players quite late in the day because Cocu arrived so late - His call up of Anya to the US to look at him showed he was taking his time to analyse the squad before making a decision on them

I think he wasn't familiar with our squad before he took the job (we aren't exactly a big team) and needed time to work with the players

11 hours ago, Jourdan said:

Is Reading being top that shocking? There is always an opportunist that rises from the usual mid-table pack. They have an excellent blend of pace, power, youth and athleticism - the kind which suits this division and sometimes it needs a catalyst to click.

Point missed here

They beat us - People complained we should be beating Reading - They're top of the league by a mile

With their start to the season do we really consider ourselves better than them and we should have been beating them?

11 hours ago, Jourdan said:

Here, we are talking about Ibe, Duncan and Kazim-Richards - none of whom would have required otherworldly scouting to identify and all of whom clearly carried risk for us once signing them.

For me, I wouldn’t have taken those gambles and sought out players who could give us a more immediate shot in the arm. It remains to be seen if they’ll offer the quality you suggested and be worth the wait.

Okay then - With your vast scouting network who would you have signed?

If we want reliable, hard working but not very good players we could have just kept Bennett and Josefzoon - Would that have been your preference? Just never get any better but sit nicely in mid-table? The Clough junior approach...

Yes Ibe is a risk - Yes Duncan is a risk - But if you never roll the dice you'll just sit and stagnate where you are

May I remind you that we've spent the best part of 7 years now failing to get promoted by trying to play championship football under (mostly) pragmatic managers - It hasn't worked and isn't repeating the same failure over and over again the definition of madness?

[MuespachRam]

5 hours ago, RamNut said:

OJ was found guilty second time

Exactly.....

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

May I remind you that we've spent the best part of 7 years now failing to get promoted by trying to play championship football under (mostly) pragmatic managers...

Really? Don't think so.

[ThePrisoner]

1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said:

Really? Don't think so.

Are we in the PL in your world? Or are we still in the Championship?

[RoyMac5]

Just now, ThePrisoner said:

Are we in the PL in your world? Or are we still in the Championship?

The 'pragmatic' bit. OBVS.

[cheron85]

10 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Really? Don't think so.

Clement, Rowett, Pearson - All pragmatists

Lampard - Who knows? Didn't hang around long enough to establish anything

McClaren I loved (and still think is 2014 sacking is the biggest mistake we've made in the last 20 years) - So he's in the minority here rather than the majority

I'd say that counts as 'mostly' doesn't it?

[RoyMac5]

Just now, cheron85 said:

Clement, Rowett, Pearson - All pragmatists

Lampard - Who knows? Didn't hang around long enough to establish anything

McClaren I loved (and still think is 2014 sacking is the biggest mistake we've made in the last 20 years) - So he's in the minority here rather than the majority

I'd say that counts as 'mostly' doesn't it?

Not really convincing. But to suggest that pragmatism is a common thread that isn't there with Cocu is the biggest joke going. Cocu is the epitome of a pragmatist. ?

[Marriot Ram99]

15 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

The 'pragmatic' bit. OBVS.

We've had one manager who was pragmatic who was loads more successful than Cocu, apart from Rowett none of our managers have been pragmatic. Pragmatic gets the job done in effective but unspectacular manner in a way that suits this league , Pearson was just terrible and Clements football was influenced by being a coach at Real Madrid and Bayern and passing around the back in this division without tempo is hardly pragmatic. 

[roboto]

Yes, the results are a real concern, but if you can't see that the performances have improved game on game since Blackburn then you're allowing your bias to cloud your judgment. I think some fans want Cocu to fail so they can say "I told you so". Why do people think we need to make drastic changes at management level to address the on field issues? We can all see there are multiple reasons all around the club as to why we're in this situation and Cocu isn't to blame for most of them.

I truly believe that once we've got this squad up to fitness (Ibe, Bielik and Duncan still haven't been in the first team and Waghorn and Lawrence haven't quite got that full 90 fitness yet) we will see dramatic turn around in results. The performances of late have been better. We've controlled first halves since the Norwich game, and it's only the fact we haven't taken our chances to kill a game off earlier that we've found ourselves dropping points with a defensive slip up, or some unhelpful officiating. Our defence has been great since Blackburn (mostly down to the new formation and how Davies has solidified a young back line), but we just need to take our chances, which we're now creating more regularly, to get the 3 points.

Yes, it's a lot of what ifs and maybes at the moment, but none of us have a crystal ball. What I'm sure of though, once we get our strongest XI on the pitch (or as close to as possible) we will be picking up wins. Getting rid of Cocu and his team when they've put so much into putting their plan in place and being nearly in the position for it to come to fruition would be a bad move.

[Mostyn6]

4 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

Clement, Rowett, Pearson - All pragmatists

Lampard - Who knows? Didn't hang around long enough to establish anything

McClaren I loved (and still think is 2014 sacking is the biggest mistake we've made in the last 20 years) - So he's in the minority here rather than the majority

I'd say that counts as 'mostly' doesn't it?

Lampard was here longer than Clement and Pearson, and only a few weeks, maybe months less than Rowett. If you’re able to pigeonhole those three, you can Lampard.