Mostyn6 Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 20 minutes ago, Curtains said: So in your eyes Cocu is a failure. Yes or no mate. If you are pinning me down to an answer, then it’s a resounding YES. We can only judge on the facts, not on the what “might happen” in the future. He’s struggled to perform in adversity, but the adversity is currently the norm across the landscape, and others are performing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 3 hours ago, Birdyabroad said: I hope you’re joking ? If you, or others in here, think we’re too good to go down, or somehow because we’re Derby County with our glorious history we’re too big to grace Division 1, then you’re deluded fella. Cocu is just not a Championship manager, ironically he may do better in the Prem or Spanish top division, but he ain’t suited to the relentless ‘thud and blunder’ of the Championship. As I say, time to weigh up the costs for Mel ?♂️ Do I think we have been good enough so far? No. Do I think we will improve? Yes. Do I think we are better than 3 other teams in this league? Yes. 3 hours ago, Birdyabroad said: And the case for the defence would like to submit exhibit A: ‘The goal at Luton’ ? I mentioned the Luton goal to correct the poster that we hadn't scored from open play yet this season. Did you even read the rest of my post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 9 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: If you are pinning me down to an answer, then it’s a resounding YES. We can only judge on the facts, not on the what “might happen” in the future. He’s struggled to perform in adversity, but the adversity is currently the norm across the landscape, and others are performing. Fair enough. I don’t see him as a failure just I guy treading water at the minute. On that note I’m going swimming and then a Sauna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 11 minutes ago, JustOneChrissyMartin said: My mistake for forgetting the 1 open play goal this season, in our second game, that we lost, scored by a player who is now out on loan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 2 hours ago, rammieib said: Hold on, last two games we’ve had 41% and 44% possession. So how on earth is that possession based football? How were the stats looking at half time yesterday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdyabroad Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 3 minutes ago, rynny said: Do I think we have been good enough so far? No. Do I think we will improve? Yes. Do I think we are better than 3 other teams in this league? Yes. I mentioned the Luton goal to correct the poster that we hadn't scored from open play yet this season. Did you even read the rest of my post? My god man, is that a barometer of success for us this season, that we’re better than 3 other teams? Try saying that out loud and hear how it sounds. Look, we’re both passionate Derby fans, we’ll agree to disagree, I just want to watch a match with the optimism that I’ll see some entertainment, I know I used to have that feeling, once, a long time ago... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 1 hour ago, Jourdan said: To say ‘we had no pre-season’ when 23 other teams were in the exact same position as us is generous in the extreme. We had a pre-season. We absolutely did. It just wasn’t a well-managed one and set the tone for what has followed. You have to look at what a pre-season is. -I'm not talking about COVID but the unique situation we've had https://www.dcfc.co.uk/teams Our forward list on here is - Jozwiak, Waghorn, Lawrence, Ibe, Kazim-Richards and Whittaker How much pre-season did they have? How much were they able to train together? How much were they able to train with the midfield? If players aren't fit they can't train and they don't build up understanding with each other - And then you get fractured attacking performances - Players miss passes by a yard or aren't finding quite the right space for each other or not anticipating the run quite right - Without that you won't create as many chances or score as many goals So that's why I keep saying October is our pre-season - Because it's when our forwards are finally back with the squad and able to do that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 2 hours ago, Curtains said: I care about them why do you want people other than Derby fans to care about us. We should have a siege mentality because the EFL treatment for a start. Where does it say anything that I care what others think of us...?? I just think that no one does, we are totally blah...just nothing interesting about us at all.... and you geniunely think the EFL have treated us badly...? Really..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hathersage Ram Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 1 hour ago, Curtains said: To be honest after the first lockdown we started very well and looked like we might make top 6 then Lawrence put his shoulder out and Waghorn got sent off etc. I’m all for depersonalising the debate if the rationale was reasonable not just sack him and thread after thread on it which has somewhat subsided now . I don’t think you and I will ever agree on this to be honest as I just don’t see what sacking him will achieve until he’s had at least 15 to 20 games this season I personally would give him all season with no qualms So whatever happens you would give him all season? If we are in relegation positions in January or March still no qualms? I don't want to give any opinion on that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Ram Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 51 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: If you are pinning me down to an answer, then it’s a resounding YES. We can only judge on the facts, not on the what “might happen” in the future. He’s struggled to perform in adversity, but the adversity is currently the norm across the landscape, and others are performing. So even in your words we can’t judge what a new Manager would do ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 2 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said: So even in your words we can’t judge what a new Manager would do ? I never said that, so it’s not my words. However, I’m not asking for Cocu to be sacked, I was asked if I thought he was a failure, which I can only judge on the here and now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomTom92 Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 I think the question is do people honestly believe Cocu will get us promoted? If the answer is yes then fair play you're obviously seeing the slight moments of light and are grasping on to them with all you've got. I've not got a problem with that viewpoint its all about opinions. If the answer is not sure but they're Cocu in then my follow up question would be are people Cocu in because A) They don't want another manager after us averaging 1 a season or B) They're 100% committed on the idea we don't have £2 to rub together and its time to settle in and have 2 and half more seasons of this so that we can do a 13/14 and take the league by storm after 4 years of clever plotting? I personally don't buy the we're cutting back and therefore we shouldn't expect promotion. Lesser clubs with a lesser wage budgets have got up before now so I don't think its unrealistic to aspire for promotion. Of course only 3 teams come the end of the season will have achieved this goal and there's teams better placed to do so. But are we a bottom 8 team? In my opinion no. I also don't think any team with a bit of money/stature shouldn't take 4 years to assemble a promotion worthy team. I'd accept them perimeters maybe if I was a Barnsley or Rotherham fan but not Derby. Can't see this season being our year so Cocu will be 2 seasons in with 2 to go.. As the saying goes around these parts 'next season will be our year'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 46 minutes ago, Birdyabroad said: My god man, is that a barometer of success for us this season, that we’re better than 3 other teams? Try saying that out loud and hear how it sounds. Look, we’re both passionate Derby fans, we’ll agree to disagree, I just want to watch a match with the optimism that I’ll see some entertainment, I know I used to have that feeling, once, a long time ago... Did I say that was the barometer for success? Did I say we were better than only 3 teams? You said we were going to get relegated if we don't get rid of Cocu, I said we weren't. Last I checked we only needed to be better than 3 teams to not get relegated, hence my point I think we are better than 3 teams and won't get relegated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jourdan Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 15 minutes ago, cheron85 said: So that's why I keep saying October is our pre-season - Because it's when our forwards are finally back with the squad and able to do that. No club has the luxury of writing off the first nine games and giving the other teams a head start, especially not one that has gone public with their play off aspirations. It is shocking that we find ourselves in that position. Whose decision was it to sign Ibe, Duncan and Kazim-Richards? Why weren’t they signed earlier in the window? Why weren’t players who could hit the ground running signed instead? The staff knew these three players would need weeks and maybe even months to get in a position to play, contribute, and gel with other players. So how good was the decision making there? Lawrence got injured in the middle of July. We had plenty of time to account for his absence, so again the staff behind the scenes could have remedied that situation and made sure we had a player who could deliver in his absence. Waghorn’s injury/absence is the only one that will have blindsided us and he broke down very early into pre-season. So again we still had time to remedy that situation too. I accept your point that Lawrence, Waghorn, Bielik, Ibe, Kazim Richards are all playing catch up, but it’s the club’s fault for not being able to strategise accordingly during the actual pre season that it means the whole team can be grouped together as one. It’s completely self-inflicted through bad management and strategic planning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24Charlie Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 I think this forum could benefit from having a thumbs down emoji. I’d be a prolific user of such a tool especially in yet another Cocu bashing thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 19 minutes ago, TomTom92 said: I think the question is do people honestly believe Cocu will get us promoted? If the answer is yes then fair play you're obviously seeing the slight moments of light and are grasping on to them with all you've got. I've not got a problem with that viewpoint its all about opinions. If the answer is not sure but they're Cocu in then my follow up question would be are people Cocu in because A) They don't want another manager after us averaging 1 a season or B) They're 100% committed on the idea we don't have £2 to rub together and its time to settle in and have 2 and half more seasons of this so that we can do a 13/14 and take the league by storm after 4 years of clever plotting? I personally don't buy the we're cutting back and therefore we shouldn't expect promotion. Lesser clubs with a lesser wage budgets have got up before now so I don't think its unrealistic to aspire for promotion. Of course only 3 teams come the end of the season will have achieved this goal and there's teams better placed to do so. But are we a bottom 8 team? In my opinion no. I also don't think any team with a bit of money/stature shouldn't take 4 years to assemble a promotion worthy team. I'd accept them perimeters maybe if I was a Barnsley or Rotherham fan but not Derby. Can't see this season being our year so Cocu will be 2 seasons in with 2 to go.. As the saying goes around these parts 'next season will be our year'... No, he won’t get us promoted this season, but neither would a combination of Ferguson, Wenger, Jose and Pep... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abu Dhabi Ram Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 46 minutes ago, cheron85 said: You have to look at what a pre-season is. -I'm not talking about COVID but the unique situation we've had https://www.dcfc.co.uk/teams Our forward list on here is - Jozwiak, Waghorn, Lawrence, Ibe, Kazim-Richards and Whittaker How much pre-season did they have? How much were they able to train together? How much were they able to train with the midfield? If players aren't fit they can't train and they don't build up understanding with each other - And then you get fractured attacking performances - Players miss passes by a yard or aren't finding quite the right space for each other or not anticipating the run quite right - Without that you won't create as many chances or score as many goals So that's why I keep saying October is our pre-season - Because it's when our forwards are finally back with the squad and able to do that This post is far too sensible for this forum, go to the back of the class ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomTom92 Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 1 minute ago, MuespachRam said: No, he won’t get us promoted this season, but neither would a combination of Ferguson, Wenger, Jose and Pep... I didn’t mean this season specifically, do you think we’ll be back in the big time after his 4 seasons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuwtfly Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 I was starting to wobble in my support of Cocu, but the last two performances have pulled me firmly back into the IN camp. We look better at the back, we're playing better football (less long balls, more attacking intent etc) and are creating more chances. The shift in formation, along with the return of key players, is certainly helping. We didn't win last night, not because of something Cocu did wrong, but because the players on the pitch didn't take the chances created by the team. If you want to get annoyed with anyone, it should be those individuals. 100% believe we will start to climb this league now with this new way of playing and the return of more key personnel . . . . . . let's just hope Jozwiak isn't out for long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 12 minutes ago, TomTom92 said: I didn’t mean this season specifically, do you think we’ll be back in the big time after his 4 seasons? I think he has as much chance as anyone else... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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