BondJovi Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 23 minutes ago, Van Cone De Head said: https://www.owlstalk.co.uk/forums/topic/286205-Derby-v-wednesday-omdt/page/33/#comments Always a good read the Wendies forum. The general consensus amongst them is that this is the worst Derby team for several years. No crap Sherlocks. Worst set of players since Clough, no surprises they think that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve How Hard? Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 33 minutes ago, Van Cone De Head said: https://www.owlstalk.co.uk/forums/topic/286205-Derby-v-wednesday-omdt/page/33/#comments Always a good read the Wendies forum. The general consensus amongst them is that this is the worst Derby team for several years. That's a fair assumption and they must be kicking themselves that they didn't put us to bed in that 1st half. Someone is going to give us a pasting if we throw in another performance like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BondJovi Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 Playing at home so he picks the more attacking Bogle over Wisdom. Dowell was awful so rightly Knight gets a go. Whittaker had looked good last few sub appearances so many called for him to start. And we all know Martin has to start. Other than start Marriott who has done very little with the chances given, what else realistically could Cocu pick? We are currently playing our back up cbs and our back up midfielders and somehow Cocu is clueless? The audible moans and groans when Knight turned down a shot first half will do wonders for the kids confidence. We all wanted the youngsters to play right? Martin was immense that second half, he put in the performance you need your senior players to do and there was a glorious physical nature to his play. Lawrence on the other hand was dreadful but that kind of performance happens from him every so often and has done since he joined. Second half we battled but the stark lack of creativity is going to hold us back until January. Who in this squad who is currently fit can change that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lagavulinram Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 Bad game. Not much else to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NottsRam77 Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 10 hours ago, MACKWORTHRAM said: The whole side is absolutely woeful. Special mention to Holmes, Evans and Lawrence though. Disgusting. Whittaker is massively out of his depth. What are the tactics? What formation are we playing? Long balls over the top got Martin? What do they do on the training ground? How are a front 2/3 meant to get any rhythm or understanding when you change it every week. I don't want to see us sack another manager. But what do we do when it's this bad? Nailed it mate first half we try and play football badly...’second half it was launch ball to still ever so immobile Chris Martin, love Martin but chasing around hopeless balls arnt his thing imo Lawrence is the most over rated erratic inconsistent player we’ve had in my time watching this club ... he’s bloody shocking he’s got ability but his decision making is absolutely bloody appalling holmes is out of his depth ... which is fair enough it’s still only his second season at this level and tbh I was never sure he was ever a central player .. he’s certainly not good enough to base ur midfield around evans ... I actually thought comparatively ... Which isn’t a high bar did ok ... when I say that I mean he actually found a rams player with his passing which is more than the former two did all night ... he did his job ok .... which cannot be said for the other two I’d bin lawnence off as soon as humanly possible ... he’s just not working here... I keep thinking play him centrally but then last night when he did drop in there he gave it away time and time again I think it’s time for us and him to move on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BathRam72 Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 10 hours ago, Rample said: That line up really smacks of desperation and if I didn't know better I'd say the end of a managerial reign, throwing things at it in the hope something works. However, if it is the start of transition and actually playing a few kids then that's different. Did you actually read what you wrote there? So if Cocu had said before the game 'I am trying something different' - then that is desperation. He says he is trying the youngsters - and that is ok? Some on here scream for the youngsters to be played - and then complain when they are played and we struggle. So which is it to be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BathRam72 Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 9 hours ago, Van Cone De Head said: They came out with some fight 2nd half and credit to them. The first half was abject dog?and they obviously recognised that it was not acceptable. Is that a little Christmas tree just after dog? To lighten the mood a little? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWC1983 Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 Massive gaps in the stands last night. Its probobly a mix of pricing / lack of entertainment on show this season / general apathy around the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NottsRam77 Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 2 hours ago, BondJovi said: Playing at home so he picks the more attacking Bogle over Wisdom. Dowell was awful so rightly Knight gets a go. Whittaker had looked good last few sub appearances so many called for him to start. And we all know Martin has to start. Other than start Marriott who has done very little with the chances given, what else realistically could Cocu pick? We are currently playing our back up cbs and our back up midfielders and somehow Cocu is clueless? The audible moans and groans when Knight turned down a shot first half will do wonders for the kids confidence. We all wanted the youngsters to play right? Martin was immense that second half, he put in the performance you need your senior players to do and there was a glorious physical nature to his play. Lawrence on the other hand was dreadful but that kind of performance happens from him every so often and has done since he joined. Second half we battled but the stark lack of creativity is going to hold us back until January. Who in this squad who is currently fit can change that? 2 up top ? we had two games of it ... one convincing win at home one bogle assisted defeat to forest in a much much improved away performance we looked like we finally had round pegs in round holes then he binned it off why ? the players were available to play it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePrisoner Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 17 minutes ago, CWC1983 said: Massive gaps in the stands last night. Its probobly a mix of pricing / lack of entertainment on show this season / general apathy around the club. It’s always a bit crap midweek in December too, Christmas coming up and all. Some of the things around the club of late make that decision a lot easier than usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 I'm sorry, it's not so much about selections as it is about philosophy. You cannot send a team out with no motivation to actually WIN the game. You cannot rely on the hope of somehow fluking a win with no real style or attacking intent. This all feels very Nigel Clough to me. Trying not to lose, playing percentage-ball with no real purpose. Steve McClaren would've won that game last night, and would've had us about 12 points better off, no doubt in my mind. Cocu needs to send them out to play with intent and do it fast, or resign for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 11 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: I'm sorry, it's not so much about selections as it is about philosophy. You cannot send a team out with no motivation to actually WIN the game. You cannot rely on the hope of somehow fluking a win with no real style or attacking intent. This all feels very Nigel Clough to me. Trying not to lose, playing percentage-ball with no real purpose. Steve McClaren would've won that game last night, and would've had us about 12 points better off, no doubt in my mind. Cocu needs to send them out to play with intent and do it fast, or resign for me. The organisation and communication is very much missing , far far too often we see players getting in each other’s way and two players next to the ball leave it for each other resulting in the opposition just easily nick the ball it’s amazingly frustrating to watch , you also see our reaction to second balls be so far off the pace with players face realising much too late that the ball is there to win and it’s them that should be trying to win it , this is the consistently worst Derby team I’ve seen in a long while Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimRam Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 No defensive error and we win. Small margins. Talk about a game of 2 halves. Sheff W should have been out of sight in first half. We were much better in 2nd and could have got a win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 1 minute ago, TimRam said: No defensive error and we win. Small margins. Talk about a game of 2 halves. Sheff W should have been out of sight in first half. We were much better in 2nd and could have got a win. No defensive error for goal and we carry on ambling around thinking we are doing enough and draw nil nil ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anag Ram Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 Holmes has had a lot of criticism on here but whilst his end product was again disappointing, he at least tried running at the opposition. Lawrence was by fair the worst player on display and his form should lead to him being dropped. Waghorn simply isn’t good enough. Martin and Marriott should start together with Hector Ingram on the bench. What frustrates me is our body language from start to finish which looks so fatalistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brammie Steve Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 I never thought I'd ever say this about the comments after our team continues to roll along on the crest of a slump but..... Most of the comments lately are intelligent, incisive and constructive. So, my friends, on this historic election day, the question remains............ Hoe gaan we verder? ¿Where do we go from here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chester40 Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 3 minutes ago, Archied said: The organisation and communication is very much missing , far far too often we see players getting in each other’s way and two players next to the ball leave it for each other resulting in the opposition just easily nick the ball it’s amazingly frustrating to watch , you also see our reaction to second balls be so far off the pace with players face realising much too late that the ball is there to win and it’s them that should be trying to win it , this is the consistently worst Derby team I’ve seen in a long while Got to agree about the 'mental' side of things... Sloppy in possession, awful decision making around the box, no anticipation, on our heels and second to the ball, slow to start games. Lots of concerns that don't seem to be about formation /personnel but simply about application to the task. Worrying cos as well as this the team and formation is constantly changing and performances are horribly fluctuating. Need a big performance against Millwall or we can start to forget about the play offs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Half Fan Half Biscuit Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 2 hours ago, BondJovi said: Lawrence on the other hand was dreadful but that kind of performance happens from him every so often and has done since he joined. This seems to be happening more often since Keogh's sacking. Cause and effect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 The biggest difference between the two halves? HOLMES In the first half he was hiding behind the opposition, not coming short to pick the ball up, bad decision making, etc... Second half, he was everywhere - coming short to pick the ball off Evans, running down the wings, attempting to play the ball into the danger area. A few other points: - Hamer's distribution is too slow. Couldn't do anything to stop the goal and was reliable throughout. - Keogh and Clarke was our best defensive partnership. We're down to what would have been our 3rd and 4th choice CBs at the moment, neither of which are anywhere near as comfortable at playing our from the back. Clarke returning from injury in the new year coupled with a new signing will have more of an impact than some realise. - Bogle was very good defensively, but very suspect in attacking areas. - Malone saved our bacon on a couple of occasions in the first half. - Evans had a reasonable game. He passed to the players showing for the ball, tried a few testing balls down the channels, and did his defensive work to a good standard. I really don't get the critisism of him for passing to our CBs when everyone else is hiding behind the opposition. We're lucky to have someone as good as him as 3rd choice DM! - Everything good in the first half involved Knight - our best player at half time. - Whittaker showed glimpses of skill. I'm undecided on whether he needs more (gradual) first team exposure, or if he needs a full season with the U23s - Martin was easily our MotM... he seemed to be back to his best last night (just needs a bit more creativity behind him to get the most from him) - Lawrence's form has undoubtedly dipped in recent weeks, but he's still our best and most creative winger. - The fans in the first half were as poor as the players on the pitch. Didn't feel up for it and hid behind the person closest to them. The improvement in the second half was immeasurable, which undoubtedly spurred the players on and lifted them enough to grab the equaliser and come close to taking all 3 points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamRam Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 11 minutes ago, Anag Ram said: Holmes has had a lot of criticism on here but whilst his end product was again disappointing, he at least tried running at the opposition. Lawrence was by fair the worst player on display and his form should lead to him being dropped. Waghorn simply isn’t good enough. Martin and Marriott should start together with Hector Ingram on the bench. What frustrates me is our body language from start to finish which looks so fatalistic. Lawrence was poo no arguing, but Whittaker was the worst player for me, I heard someone say has he been dragged off the street to make the numbers up and it certainly looked like that. Ive not seen enough of him to judge him and certainly won’t write him off after one game, but does give a reminder of the step up from the U23s. Knight was ok and at least put his foot in, but Cocu has a very hard job with the squad at his disposal. Not saying he he is helping himself, but we need that Jan transfer window quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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