sunnyhill60 Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 24 minutes ago, Dethorn said: I think you will find that it doesn't Pantomime style I could say it does but I can't recall a recent Derby forward win so many aerials as Martin did last night and give the defence a severe physical challenge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. P Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said: Drew vs Monk's Sheff Weds and Warburton's QPR and won vs Woodgate's Boro Our overall home record: 5W 5D 1L Yeah that’s great but now we’re not winning at home or away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 My limited half hearted take: First half absolutely shocking. Players and staff should apologise to Mel and the fans. Second half we decided to play them at their own game and looked better than them at it. They are/were feeling good and are/were positioned 6th in the league. We have a poor side but won deservedly the second half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Dethorn said: I feel like putting in some effort and posting despite not seeing much effort on the pitch last night. I feel we were outplayed and humilated by a poor team - A thought crossed my mind that this whole match was not Championship standard but League 1 at best and we were not even the best team there albeit as the home team too. Here are my more detailed thoughts Hamer 6 - do not think he did anything wrong which may make him our player of the match Bogle 5 - An average performance from supposedly one of our better players Davies 5 - did what it says on his tin, defends, does not offer anything else either motivationally or going forward Forsyth 3 - I loved him several years ago, bombing down the wing - whipping crosses in but unfortunately he is not that player anymore through no fault of his own. Re-inventing him as a centre half seems like a good idea but it is proving it isn't - he just has too many mistakes in him Malone 6 - One of my less favourite players but did not do too bad - saved a couple of goals too Whittaker 4 - Really, I was quite hopeful for this kid but I think he was out of his depth or overcome, maybe going from such a successful team to such a dire one as a front player is also very difficult. Knight 5 - I have liked what I have seen of him in the past, but at least there was effort tonight, but very little quality. Evans 3 - A good CDM bosses the game, breaks up the oppositions play, sets our tempo, makes decisions and gets us going. George did none of these. I think he maybe be a Centre Half but probably not at this level. Holmes 4 - Ran about a lot - tried to make things happen - can throw it a long way for a little guy. Too many bad decisions, has to take some responsibility for being slow to react after Forsyth's dire pass. Lawrence 2 - where do I start...... I can't be arsed Martin 6 - For keeping going with virtually no intelligence or support or service Waghorn & Marriott at least looked like they wanted to change it - got the penalty, ran about, looked interested which should be enough to guarantee them a start. Cocu - I do not know what to say because I really want to like and I really do not want to be the kind of person who objects to a manager in a short space of time, but I am beginning to wonder why he did not last long in Turkey. At the end of the day - as some people on here have said - he cannot be responsible for every detail that happens on the pitch but he is overall responsible. I do not think the squad is a million miles from what we had last season, Davies, Forsyth and Clarke in for Keogh and Tomori, Shinnie and Bielik in for Mount and Wilson, Martin rejuvinated, Whittaker, Sibley, Knight, Buchanan etc all a year older and nearer the first team. I think Frank used to get more out of them as individuals and this all combined to create a team spirit. Was Frank a better coach under which 'Forsyth' would not have made that mistake ? No - but it would not of been the same kind of blow, because of the belief in the payers and the crowd that we could get past it and still win. Around 80 minutes I thought to myself if we get a draw here we will have robbed them of the win and to be fair they were not great and we were at home. I am not sure that Rooney will be enough to make significant changes. From riding the crest of a wave to feeling like drowning might be the best option in only 8 months Gutted Some decent points and lots I agree with,,,, BUT to say the squad is not a million miles away from last seasons is ludicrous,,,, feeling cocu could/ should be getting more from what we have is one thing but comparing the squad the way you have is just blind daft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 Eh? I've just seen it! Hmm, that comment would make sense if the video of CM scoring the penalty was there - is it just not playing on mine or everybodies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raich Carter Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Srg said: I don't understand the point in Hamer. Worse with his feet than Roos and no better at claiming crosses, also thought he should have done a bit better with their goal too which wasn't hit particularly hard, nor into the corner. You are joking, right? Roos is awful with his feet! He dwells on the ball, indecisive and just poo. Hamer came out well for a few and overall, doesn’t scare the bejesus out of me as Roos does! Done better with their goal? One-on-one with an experienced striker like Fletcher....? Wow. He cannot be blamed for that in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dethorn Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 37 minutes ago, sunnyhill60 said: Pantomime style I could say it does but I can't recall a recent Derby forward win so many aerials as Martin did last night and give the defence a severe physical challenge Good point - but I am more of a Lowe fan than Malone and for once he did not annoy me, in fact in a very poor display he wasn't bad and he saved a goal to push it up a little, so I tried to put my (what is the opposite of rose tinted glass) for Malone aside, maybe I have slightly over compensated - but to doubt my whole credibility seems harsh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dethorn Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 30 minutes ago, Archied said: Some decent points and lots I agree with,,,, BUT to say the squad is not a million miles away from last seasons is ludicrous,,,, feeling cocu could/ should be getting more from what we have is one thing but comparing the squad the way you have is just blind daft Maybe my definition of a million miles differs from yours - what I was trying to say was take last years playoff finalists - remove Mount, Wilson, Tomori, Keogh and add Davies, Martin, Bielik, Shinnie, Clarke should not equal potential relegation fodder therefore I think Cocu has some of the responsibility on his shoulders. Thanks for the feedback - glad you agree mostly ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S8TY Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 4 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said: The biggest difference between the two halves? HOLMES In the first half he was hiding behind the opposition, not coming short to pick the ball up, bad decision making, etc... Second half, he was everywhere - coming short to pick the ball off Evans, running down the wings, attempting to play the ball into the danger area. A few other points: - Hamer's distribution is too slow. Couldn't do anything to stop the goal and was reliable throughout. - Keogh and Clarke was our best defensive partnership. We're down to what would have been our 3rd and 4th choice CBs at the moment, neither of which are anywhere near as comfortable at playing our from the back. Clarke returning from injury in the new year coupled with a new signing will have more of an impact than some realise. - Bogle was very good defensively, but very suspect in attacking areas. - Malone saved our bacon on a couple of occasions in the first half. - Evans had a reasonable game. He passed to the players showing for the ball, tried a few testing balls down the channels, and did his defensive work to a good standard. I really don't get the critisism of him for passing to our CBs when everyone else is hiding behind the opposition. We're lucky to have someone as good as him as 3rd choice DM! - Everything good in the first half involved Knight - our best player at half time. - Whittaker showed glimpses of skill. I'm undecided on whether he needs more (gradual) first team exposure, or if he needs a full season with the U23s - Martin was easily our MotM... he seemed to be back to his best last night (just needs a bit more creativity behind him to get the most from him) - Lawrence's form has undoubtedly dipped in recent weeks, but he's still our best and most creative winger. - The fans in the first half were as poor as the players on the pitch. Didn't feel up for it and hid behind the person closest to them. The improvement in the second half was immeasurable, which undoubtedly spurred the players on and lifted them enough to grab the equaliser and come close to taking all 3 points. It was very very poor last night I’m afraid ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S8TY Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 I didnt see Mel there last night ? I wonder what he thought ....that was truly awful I’m afraid and the players don’t look happy....that team meeting obviously went well as there were a lot of changes players don’t take any notice of Cocu when he’s trying to give instructions either ....this is bad times indeed ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucker1884 Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 2 hours ago, Van De Squid said: Yep it'll be the same on Saturday too no doubt. I can be as "unsupportive" as the best of 'em at times, but by that, I mean slumped back in my seat, sour faced, cold, miserable, and silent! But I have to say, some of the negativity (shown by some fans), this season in particular, is really starting to bring my wee-wee to a slow simmer! Why on earth do some feel it helpful/appropriate/clever to stand, rant, and wave their fists about, virtually every time the ball get's passed back into our own half? This ain't tutting. This isn't raised eyebrows showing disapproval. This isn't just a murmur, or even a heavy sigh. We're talking full volume, industrial language, and raised blood vessels on the verge of bursting! Sometimes, That rear-facing-but-possession-keeping-pass-back is the only option. Sometimes, it's the best option. Hey, even sometimes it a bloody fantastic option. Lighten up, people, and let the pro's go about their job without you shouting abuse every 5 minutes! Passion is only a turn on if you can control it! ...and... relax! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollycutts1982 Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 Far too laboured last night, slow, taking extra touches when not needed and constantly going backwards. Hamer - did okay, marginally better than Roos. The defenders in front of him seem to have more confidence in him. Malone - poor crosses last night and constantly looking to go backwards not forwards. We know he can’t defend but now seem to have forgotten how to go forwards. Davies - cannot play football so why we insist on giving him the ball is beyond me. Made one vital challenge second half. Forsyth - at fault for the goal, not helped out by Evans. Playing out of position, did okay against Fletcher. Bogle - seems to have had that raw attacking instinct taken away from him. Yet still one of our better attacking players which says a lot. Evans was woeful as has been said, he offered nothing positive other than a few balls over the top. Not cut out for this level. Knight - played well, was busy and tenacious but ran out of steam. One of very few positives. Holmes - did okay, he plays better when we play with a higher tempo. At least he was brave enough to try and make something happen in possession. Whittaker - doesn’t look anywhere near ready, he looked nervous and not strong enough, only positive was one run in the second half. Lawrence - is more effective when the ball is given to him quickly, last night by the time he received the ball he had 2 men on him. Martin - did okay to say the service was poor, funny how once you play the ball into his feet and get players around him we look a different side. Marriott and Waghorn came on and got closer to Martin this we were able to play 50 yards further up the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbles Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 Reckon Cocu told bogle to be average so that everyone who's interested can bugger off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BondJovi Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 58 minutes ago, Dethorn said: Maybe my definition of a million miles differs from yours - what I was trying to say was take last years playoff finalists - remove Mount, Wilson, Tomori, Keogh and add Davies, Martin, Bielik, Shinnie, Clarke should not equal potential relegation fodder therefore I think Cocu has some of the responsibility on his shoulders. Thanks for the feedback - glad you agree mostly ? Davies has had a season out and at his age that takes some coming back from.Martin has also had serious fitness issues. Bielik and Clarke both were playing league one last season. Mount single handedly transferred us from midtable to playoffs. So midtable is our starting position and we are weaker than that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rample Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 16 hours ago, Finch said: The dressing room was lost with Keogh's sacking The Boro and Preston wins show that wasn't the case. It all turned around with the Fulham loss. The only coincidence is Rooney starting his coaching stint, lets hope he's not another Kevin Phillips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dethorn Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 1 hour ago, BondJovi said: Davies has had a season out and at his age that takes some coming back from.Martin has also had serious fitness issues. Bielik and Clarke both were playing league one last season. Mount single handedly transferred us from midtable to playoffs. So midtable is our starting position and we are weaker than that! Oh damn, I seriously thought that when I was talking about what I think I might be an expert Apologies for the error Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roosram Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 2 hours ago, S8TY said: I didnt see Mel there last night ? I wonder what he thought ....that was truly awful I’m afraid and the players don’t look happy....that team meeting obviously went well as there were a lot of changes players don’t take any notice of Cocu when he’s trying to give instructions either ....this is bad times indeed ? Watching his attempts on the touchline to get his message across just reminds me of Sgt Wilson off Dad'd Army ..................... Do you mind awfully just trying a little bit harder.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFC Ram Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 17 hours ago, Wolfie20 said: Attwell Mk 2. Typical of a number of referees in the Championship - complete poser looking to get on the gravy train that is the Premier League. 'hey, look at me speaking in stern tones to the goalkeeper (x2), now look at me running back to the half way line in an unusual way.' 'now look at me making sure that everyone knows who's boss by demanding the substitution take place even though the board isn't ready and Derby have already taken the throw' 'now look at me deciding to stop the game to speak in stern tones to Derby's CF and Wednesday's CH even though there is no foul or head injury - and now look at me giving a drop ball to Derby for a rule that I've just made up.' 'now look at me not giving a red card but giving a penno for a foul straight in front of goal with only the keeper to beat' pathetic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFC Ram Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 3 hours ago, BondJovi said: Davies has had a season out and at his age that takes some coming back from.Martin has also had serious fitness issues. Bielik and Clarke both were playing league one last season. Mount single handedly transferred us from midtable to playoffs. So midtable is our starting position and we are weaker than that! and Tomori and Wilson, to be fair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Kevin Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 13 hours ago, Van Cone De Head said: https://www.owlstalk.co.uk/forums/topic/286205-Derby-v-wednesday-omdt/page/33/#comments Always a good read the Wendies forum. The general consensus amongst them is that this is the worst Derby team for several years. Not daft lads are they. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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