Luton Town (H) Match Thread

[LazloW]

Passing backwards isn’t the problem: passing backwards when there are opportunities to turn, face the opposition and move forward can be.  I don’t like to see a player’s first instinct is to give the ball back from whence it came if (and only if) they can turn.  Obviously in such circumstances, the player needs a shout to know they have time.  I saw a few examples of this yesterday.

keeping possession is not the problem: keeping possession and allowing the opposition to squeeze and squeeze and push you back until you’re in trouble can be.  Again, quite a few examples yesterday of needlessly putting ourselves under pressure by trying to play it out the back.  A couple of times we managed to ‘spring the trap’ by sucking Luton’s players in and utilising the space that created, but we didn’t do it enough - presumably through a lack of movement or a lack of ability to pick out a pass.

generally, i don’t like to see my team happily conceding possession in an attempt to being hard to break down.  It seemed to be the case in both last two home games, but I don’t know whether it is deliberate or whether the opposition have just been playing well.  In any event, I want us to be pressing to get the ball and be positive about using it...

Not really being too negative about things - just generally my views in things I’d like to see us doing a bit better... there were some very positive signs - particularly in the first half.  Particularly good to see a midfielder putting some crunching tackles in.  

[therealhantsram]

5 hours ago, FindernRam said:

Heres an alternative view on this: in second half there was yet another frustrating period of short passes sideway and back, at the end of which Malone passed 40 yards back to Roos. There were very audible groans at that point. I don't think at Malone particularly, just the style of play. Immediately after that Malone came near Cocu who made very obvious clapping to him. 

Its pretty clear to me that Cocu wants possession in preference to attacking entertainment. Will the crowd put up with it? We haven't under several managers and Mel always appears to rate entertainment highly.

I think you are spot on. We heard about this from some PSV fans before the season started. Expect more of it... But also expect it to be successful. 

What some call slow, Cocu calls patient. Its a very deliberate ploy. 

[therealhantsram]

Team of the weekend from Whoscored, two Rams make the team... 

 

[RamNut]

3 minutes ago, therealhantsram said:

I think you are spot on. We heard about this from some PSV fans before the season started. Expect more of it... But also expect it to be successful. 

What some call slow, Cocu calls patient. Its a very deliberate ploy. 

We don't always keep possession with this back passing. Sometimes it leads to trouble. 

If you watch the full 90 v barnsley, there is a good example after 8 minutes. 

We play out from the back via bogle, and then cross the pitch with waggers and holmes (from memory). Lawrence drops deep into space and receives the ball. He has got time and space to turn but no.....he smacks it all the way back to Bielik at centre back. (What used to be described on radio commentary as "all the way back to square one"). Bielik tries to forward pass to bogle who has pushed up. The pass is intercepted and barnsley very nearly score. Why go backwards? That would have been a totally self-inflicted wound.   

[B4ev6is]

16 hours ago, Millenniumram said:

Again late on the match day thread, did attempt to send summat In during the match but I’m not convinced anything actually sent- pride park 4g quality strikes again! Was a... strange game today really. We won with two proper fluke goals, can’t be anyone that can deny that. But I still think we deserved the 3 points, despite it being a poorer performance on the whole than the previous couple of matches. Think tbh the fact we got the 3 points reflects poorer on Luton than it reflects well on us, but we weren’t particulary “lucky” to get the result, we were still the better team on the balance of play. That was, however, mainly down to the quality of our defending (unbelievably!) which led to a very rare clean sheet. Much of that was to do with the quality of Bielik and Shinnie shielding the back line superbly, particularly the latter who had a stunning game. 

Cant gloss over some of our poor play in possession mind. We did that thing again where we score early and drop off too deep, it’s cost us many times this season, and we’re lucky to have got away with it today, especially in the second half. I don’t know whether it comes from the coaching staff or what, but the negative attitude has to change- we have to keep going and be more relentless! Gave the ball away far too often too cheaply in that second half especially, poor decision making caused a lot of attacking moves to break down and bring more pressure on the defence- Martin the prime cause. Far from as fluid as previous games, but things weren’t helped by cocus changes, it ruined the attacking balance. Need to return to the attacking setup we had previously after the break imo. Waghorn wasn’t great the other night, but at least he’s involved unlike josefzoon. Think Martin especially and Paterson missed having Holmes in there too, though that Was enforced by illness in fairness. Another thing that really needs working on still is our passing out the back, it really is our Achilles heel in terms of both causing problems defensively and stopping attacking moves starting. And it’s all mainly to do with players dwelling on the ball too long, especially the GK, and inviting unneeded pressure. Just show a bit more awareness, think about the pass BEFORE you get the ball, and move it on quickly. Really need to work on that. 

Definitely need improved performances after the break if we’re gonna beat tougher Opponents, we’ve got the two weeks to work on things now so let’s hope we do- Cocu certainly needs to show some improvement in that regard to keep support as it hasn’t been great so far. Luckily Luton were poor today and we got the result, which with our form, is what really mattered above all else. Ratings for me:

Roos 6-  Flappy as always, still desperately need better, but at least no major ricks- unlike some goalies?

Bogle 6- Poorer on the ball than normal, probably fitness related, but still another assist

Davies 7- Strong defensively, struggled passing at times

Clarke 7- Same as Davies, which is much better from him

Malone 7- Standard Malone, good going forward, fast asleep in defence at times

Bielik 8- So much better in midfield, battled well and played some decent passes too

Shinnie 9 MOM- Utterly brilliant performance, so much desire, brilliant breaking up play- fully won a spot in the team imo

Josefzoon 5- Anonymous as per

Paterson 7- Not quote as good as previous games, but still played some nice passes which were wasted by teammates, and battled well

Lawrence 6- Some nice touches, but far too greedy at times as usual, overplaying

Martin 3- Awful, every touch went to a Luton player. Looked knackered and probably should’ve been rested

Subs:

Waghorn 6- Battled well and played one sublime pass

Holmes and Wisdom N/A- not enough time

What game were watching I throught martin had a good game and held the play so others coming in.

[DarkFruitsRam7]

24 minutes ago, RamNut said:

We don't always keep possession with this back passing. Sometimes it leads to trouble. 

If you watch the full 90 v barnsley, there is a good example after 8 minutes. 

We play out from the back via bogle, and then cross the pitch with waggers and holmes (from memory). Lawrence drops deep into space and receives the ball. He has got time and space to turn but no.....he smacks it all the way back to Bielik at centre back. (What used to be described on radio commentary as "all the way back to square one"). Bielik tries to forward pass to bogle who has pushed up. The pass is intercepted and barnsley very nearly score. Why go backwards? That would have been a totally self-inflicted wound.   

One mistake doesn't mean that the whole philosophy is wrong. Admittedly, we gave it away at the back far too often against Cardiff and Leeds, but we we were generally more assured against Barnsley and Luton. Whether we can improve further and do it against the best teams remains to be seen.

[Millenniumram]

15 minutes ago, B4ev6is said:

What game were watching I throught martin had a good game and held the play so others coming in.

Obviously a different one to you then mate. As I say, I don’t think he was trying the wrong things- just nothing came off for him. One of those games he’ll be very frustrated about, but think it was one game too many for him In quick succession.

[B4ev6is]

Yes I know martin did not score but held play bring players the player should gone off is zoon.

[RamNut]

41 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

One mistake doesn't mean that the whole philosophy is wrong. Admittedly, we gave it away at the back far too often against Cardiff and Leeds, but we we were generally more assured against Barnsley and Luton. Whether we can improve further and do it against the best teams remains to be seen.

Whether it led to a mistake or not, it took four passes and alot of graft to get the ball out to the winger. In one second all of that was undone. 

[Ramfan1958]

Interesting comments from some. fans.

Personally I thought it was a very poor performance and we looked like the away team . 

 

It's early doors but I dont like Cocus style of play at all. So negative with the ball it's all about possesion, passing back  when it needed to go forward.

 

I can see a big loss coming against someone were that poor at present.

It's the worst Derby team  I've seen in a few years  to be honest .

His interviews after the match sounds like we played well REALLY!!!

Rowett, Frank's and McLaren teams would easily beat this team.

Not moaning because I want Coco to succeed  but we have to be honest at present its really poor. 

 

[Marriot Ram99]

24 minutes ago, Ramfan1958 said:

Interesting comments from some. fans.

Personally I thought it was a very poor performance and we looked like the away team . 

 

It's early doors but I dont like Cocus style of play at all. So negative with the ball it's all about possesion, passing back  when it needed to go forward.

 

I can see a big loss coming against someone were that poor at present.

It's the worst Derby team  I've seen in a few years  to be honest .

His interviews after the match sounds like we played well REALLY!!!

Rowett, Frank's and McLaren teams would easily beat this team.

Not moaning because I want Coco to succeed  but we have to be honest at present its really poor. 

 

I though it was very poor as well but I am trying to seeing it as 3points cleans sheet and move on rather than get too worked up about it, Charlton are a good team so the next game will be a real test of our credentials becuase I think if we aren't at our very best it could be another Brentford style game.

[Rev]

50 minutes ago, RamNut said:

Whether it led to a mistake or not, it took four passes and alot of graft to get the ball out to the winger. In one second all of that was undone. 

Do you think communication is a problem?

I've thought for a little while we're a very quiet team, never really hear anyone above the noise of the crowd.

Just the odd thumbs up for long balls sailing well off target, aside from Malone they seem a quiet bunch.

[Steve How Hard?]

If we are to be perceived as playing poor yesterday then surely it is a positive to win 2-0. Is it not a sign of a good team to play poor but still win? Historically we have struggled to beat teams that come to Pride Park with little or no attacking intent. I think it is harsh to compare Cocuball to Rowettball at this early juncture. 

[gfs1ram]

1 hour ago, Ramfan1958 said:

Interesting comments from some. fans.

Personally I thought it was a very poor performance and we looked like the away team . 

 

It's early doors but I dont like Cocus style of play at all. So negative with the ball it's all about possesion, passing back  when it needed to go forward.

 

I can see a big loss coming against someone were that poor at present.

It's the worst Derby team  I've seen in a few years  to be honest .

His interviews after the match sounds like we played well REALLY!!!

Rowett, Frank's and McLaren teams would easily beat this team.

Not moaning because I want Coco to succeed  but we have to be honest at present its really poor. 

 

Pretty much my thoughts entirely.

I want Cocu/Derby to succeed but we have made two very poor teams (Barnsley and Luton) look good against us

and I agree we really did look like the away team yesterday. Really liked Shinnies performance yesterday and yet our midfield 

still did not dominate and at no time did we control the match.

Like Ramfan1958 I really fear a big defeat could quite easily be conceded by this team - just hope that it will not be at Forest!!

 

[RIMBAUD]

Long periods of the first half were attack v defence.  I must be a minority (or easily pleased) because I though we were ok. Not great but ok.

[desirelines]

Just watched the match on Rams TV (muted – best way to watch it!) and I actually think we played quite well. Controlled the first half, lots of possession without creating much but not too far away from clicking. The opposition found it too easy to break through the lines in the first half, and in the second half we dropped off too much giving them more space to bring the ball forward and work opportunities from the flanks. But it all looks fairly comfortable to me. 

Stray observations:

• Paterson leads the press and the counterpress brilliantly
• Bogle is so important for providing that essential attacking width
• Bielik: there’s a player in there somewhere. Tall, strong and mobile. Great vision for a pass. Still lacking a bit of match fitness
• Josefzoon - could be controversial opinion, but I actually think he had bags of tactical discipline. Was always the first to back up Paterson's press. Tracked back and broke forward at the right times. Maybe lacking the confidence to really thrive. His fluffed chance came as a result of some brilliant controlled possession play from the whole team. 
• Bloomin' 'eck, Wisdom has put on some weight! 

[Brammie Steve]

Haven't seen more than the highlights yet but if circumstances were otherwise Lawrence would have been MOTM I reckon.

[RadioactiveWaste]

2 hours ago, desirelines said:

Just watched the match on Rams TV (muted – best way to watch it!) and I actually think we played quite well. Controlled the first half, lots of possession without creating much but not too far away from clicking. The opposition found it too easy to break through the lines in the first half, and in the second half we dropped off too much giving them more space to bring the ball forward and work opportunities from the flanks. But it all looks fairly comfortable to me. 

Stray observations:

• Paterson leads the press and the counterpress brilliantly
• Bogle is so important for providing that essential attacking width
• Bielik: there’s a player in there somewhere. Tall, strong and mobile. Great vision for a pass. Still lacking a bit of match fitness
• Josefzoon - could be controversial opinion, but I actually think he had bags of tactical discipline. Was always the first to back up Paterson's press. Tracked back and broke forward at the right times. Maybe lacking the confidence to really thrive. His fluffed chance came as a result of some brilliant controlled possession play from the whole team. 
• Bloomin' 'eck, Wisdom has put on some weight! 

On Zoon, Cocu must be seeing something.

My take is he's a confidence player who hasn't had any since he got here, I seem to remember he wasn't that cheerful about Cocu when he was appointed because Cocu didn't rate him at PSV (it was clip of him being interviewed by Gibson, I forget whet he said exactly but it wasn't positive)

 

[Sparkle]

29 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

On Zoon, Cocu must be seeing something.

My take is he's a confidence player who hasn't had any since he got here, I seem to remember he wasn't that cheerful about Cocu when he was appointed because Cocu didn't rate him at PSV (it was clip of him being interviewed by Gibson, I forget whet he said exactly but it wasn't positive)

 

It would help if Zoon contributes either goals or assists at home because I haven’t seen him do either at home since we signed him 

[Ambitious]

Derby fans during this game:
Booed players for keeping possession. 
Booed there own goalscorer. 
Mocked there own keeper from the off. 

It has to be said that as a collective we have one of the poorest 'supporting' fan bases in the league.