Luton Town (H) Match Thread

[Ghost of Clough]

3 minutes ago, RamNut said:

It wasn't us having the ball that was the problem. It was the long spells where they had the ball. And yeah....stop going backwards. I know what cloughie would say. "Young man. Turn around, and try running at their goal. Thats what i pay you for!" 

But us passing it backwards was to keep possession so Luton didn’t have the long spells on the ball. They were growing into the game so we had to take the sting out of it. A risky pass forward or getting tackled whilst trying to take a man on just provides the opposition with more time on the ball. 
the game has changed a lot in the 50 years since Clough’s first came here, just like the game changed a lot in the 50 years previous to that. 

[RamNut]

2 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

But us passing it backwards was to keep possession so Luton didn’t have the long spells on the ball. They were growing into the game so we had to take the sting out of it. A risky pass forward or getting tackled whilst trying to take a man on just provides the opposition with more time on the ball. 
the game has changed a lot in the 50 years since Clough’s first came here, just like the game changed a lot in the 50 years previous to that. 

Really? We're playing luton not liverpool. 

[Ghost of Clough]

2 hours ago, RamNut said:

Really? We're playing luton not liverpool. 

A side who were only 1 point behind us before we played. “No easy games at this level” remember. 

[Ellafella]

5 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

But us passing it backwards was to keep possession so Luton didn’t have the long spells on the ball. They were growing into the game so we had to take the sting out of it. A risky pass forward or getting tackled whilst trying to take a man on just provides the opposition with more time on the ball. 
the game has changed a lot in the 50 years since Clough’s first came here, just like the game changed a lot in the 50 years previous to that. 

Yes because it’s much more complex now and not at all about having possession and moving it forward so that you can score a goal in the opposition’s net ....oh..’ang on a minute...?

[Ellafella]

3 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

A side who were only 1 point behind us before we played. “No easy games at this level” remember. 

A rather circular argument really. They’re only 1 point behind us because we’re 15th and we’ve drawn far too many games because we’re playing a very defensive style. We should’ve beaten Barnsley but we didn’t because we tried to hang on to a 2-1 lead and de-camped in our own half.

The style that is emerging is slow, ponderous, and frankly like watching grass grow. Ok it’s still early days and our squad seems thin but my bones tell me it’s not going to be exciting. I hope I’m wrong.

[desirelines]

When did possession become a dirty word? Moving the ball sideways shifts the defensive line across the pitch while encouraging the opposition to push up/press, thus creating spaces to exploit. 

Wasn't it Cloughie who also said "if the opposition hasn't got the ball, they can't hurt you"? 

[King Kevin]

7 minutes ago, desirelines said:

When did possession become a dirty word? Moving the ball sideways shifts the defensive line across the pitch while encouraging the opposition to push up/press, thus creating spaces to exploit. 

Wasn't it Cloughie who also said "if the opposition hasn't got the ball, they can't hurt you"? 

He could afford to say that ,we were spanking the likes of Liverpool ,Man U ,Spurs etc at the time.

[FindernRam]

1 hour ago, desirelines said:

When did possession become a dirty word? Moving the ball sideways shifts the defensive line across the pitch while encouraging the opposition to push up/press, thus creating spaces to exploit. 

Wasn't it Cloughie who also said "if the opposition hasn't got the ball, they can't hurt you"? 

When it is to little effect. Last weekend in 16 Prem and Championship games with a result half were won by the team with least possession. But to back up your last comment, the most lopsided possession stats 70/30 resulted in a draw.

And your comment about space to exploit requires:

a) Someone to run into it

b) Someone to forward pass

[SaffyRam]

3 hours ago, desirelines said:

When did possession become a dirty word? Moving the ball sideways shifts the defensive line across the pitch while encouraging the opposition to push up/press, thus creating spaces to exploit. 

Wasn't it Cloughie who also said "if the opposition hasn't got the ball, they can't hurt you"? 

I seem to remember there used to be a sign in the BBG dressing room saying.....the biggest crime in football is giving the ball to the opposition .

[desirelines]

1 hour ago, FindernRam said:

And your comment about space to exploit requires:

a) Someone to run into it

b) Someone to forward pass

Totally agree! Hopefully that will come more and more as the team gels and gets used to Cocu’s tactics. 

[RamNut]

11 hours ago, Saffy van der Ram said:

I seem to remember there used to be a sign in the BBG dressing room saying.....the biggest crime in football is giving the ball to the opposition .

Brian clough quoting harry storer of whom he was a great admirer.

[Rammy03]

On 08/10/2019 at 07:29, Ellafella said:

The style that is emerging is slow, ponderous, and frankly like watching grass grow.

I don't think it's the style. I think it's the players having too many touches just taking too long to make a forward pass, for whatever reason. We have seen that when the ball does go from the back quicker, we do look good. It only happens in spells though, we need to be doing it more often.

[Ellafella]

14 minutes ago, Rammy03 said:

I don't think it's the style. I think it's the players having too many touches just taking too long to make a forward pass, for whatever reason. We have seen that when the ball does go from the back quicker, we do look good. It only happens in spells though, we need to be doing it more often.

The problem is that others are too static so there’s no pass on. The team needs to be much more fluid to play that way. 

[Anag Ram]

21 hours ago, FindernRam said:

When it is to little effect. Last weekend in 16 Prem and Championship games with a result half were won by the team with least possession. But to back up your last comment, the most lopsided possession stats 70/30 resulted in a draw.

And your comment about space to exploit requires:

a) Someone to run into it

b) Someone to forward pass

... and

C) Players with the confidence to play a first time pass (and a crowd which appreciates that sometimes that will go wrong). 

[VulcanRam]

24 minutes ago, Anag Ram said:

... and

C) Players with the confidence to play a first time pass (and a crowd which appreciates that sometimes that will go wrong). 

...and

D) A crowd that allows you play and doesn't:

i) moan if you try something positive and make a mistake or lose the ball

ii) moan when you don't try something and don't make a mistake

iii) moan when keeping the ball is a better option than giving it away

iii) moan when  the goalkeeper keeps the ball out of the net

iiii) moan when we score a goal (that'll be next, mark my words)

I know we don't have a great home support, but this season seems to have got even worse than in previous years. Little wonder the players can go into their shells.

We're not blessed with the world's greatest players - we're a mid table Championship side - but they're a talented bunch who try hard, yet some people expect them to be world beaters and won't accept anything less.

PS, I really don't want to turn this into a fans debate, there have been too many of them already, but just pointing out that it all goes into the mix regards how the team plays.

 

 

[Rammy03]

9 hours ago, Ellafella said:

The problem is that others are too static so there’s no pass on. The team needs to be much more fluid to play that way. 

It's the positioning of the midfield. The players aren't making themselves available to collect the ball from the defenders. That's why it always gets passed back to roos for him to boot up the pitch and the cycle continues.

[RamLad1884]

On 08/10/2019 at 07:29, Ellafella said:

 

The style that is emerging is slow, ponderous, and frankly like watching grass grow. Ok it’s still early days and our squad seems thin but my bones tell me it’s not going to be exciting. I hope I’m wrong.

I go by the words of an old football coach of mine: 'learn to win, then learn to win well'. 

That sticks out here. Liverpool didn't win the champions league playing all pretty football, nor Man City with the Premier League. The successful teams win games when they play poorly. 

Right now we've got a thin squad, some players either building up fitness or injured and an unsettled team under a relatively new system. I'd rather we win games ugly and improve over the season. 

[Ellafella]

2 hours ago, RamLad1884 said:

I go by the words of an old football coach of mine: 'learn to win, then learn to win well'. 

That sticks out here. Liverpool didn't win the champions league playing all pretty football, nor Man City with the Premier League. The successful teams win games when they play poorly. 

Right now we've got a thin squad, some players either building up fitness or injured and an unsettled team under a relatively new system. I'd rather we win games ugly and improve over the season. 

Yes; Improvement is the key; up to now we've mostly played ugly and not won. We were very fortunate to beat Luton because we created nothing and it was another game that should have been a draw. Cocu's hand has been forced by injuries but fortunately, those have led to him choosing players that he may have overlooked otherwise. 

[Comrade 86]

On 06/10/2019 at 08:33, Millenniumram said:

It’s not utter tripe if you’re at the match, if you notice in the thread I’m far from the only one commenting it. His touch was well off, not having a go at him as he was still trying the right things, just one of those days. Pass completion can be a very misleading stat, it all depends on the flow of the game. Likewise why we didn’t attack so much in the last 10 minutes, we were 2-0 up so we’re always going to have the kitchen sink thrown at us.

There was me thinking it related to the percentage of attempted passes that are completed ?‍♀️

[DCFC1388]

On 08/10/2019 at 09:03, desirelines said:

When did possession become a dirty word? Moving the ball sideways shifts the defensive line across the pitch while encouraging the opposition to push up/press, thus creating spaces to exploit. 

Wasn't it Cloughie who also said "if the opposition hasn't got the ball, they can't hurt you"? 

We didnt have the ball for our 1st goal  think it hurt Luton ?