The Politics Thread 2019

[Gritstone Ram]

5 minutes ago, Montgolfier said:

Three weeks ago...

Brexiteers: "Proroguing Parliament has nothing to do with Brexit."

Now:

Brexiteers: "The Supreme Court are interfering with politics by declaring the proroguing of Parliament illegal. They just want to stop Brexit."

Can't have it both ways, I'm afraid.

I bet that old bag voted remain.

[Eddie]

4 minutes ago, Van Gritters said:

I bet that old bag voted remain.

What about the other ten?

I thought that you wanted British justice to be paramount. What next - get Boris to appeal to the European Court of Justice?

Sorry, this is just getting silly, but very predictable.

[cstand]

2 hours ago, BaaLocks said:

Well, regarding the Bank Of England, you are right that they have revised their intial predictions. They now only say GDP will fall by 5.5% in the worst-case scenario following a no-deal Brexit - unemployment could increase by 7% and inflation may peak at 5.25%. Like you said, not as bad as they originally suggested but I don't see them getting too giddy about the economic benefits.

As for Remainers, yes they lost a flawed referendum. But that's not the point, read the first paragraph and realise this is what the Bank of England is saying, not Project Fear or Remoaners or soft commies without the guts to stick it to those dirty foreigners, this is the primary banking institution in our country - spelling it out in black and white how they think it will go. 

I don't care that much that we lost, I'm a Labour supporter and a Derby fan so I know how it feels. But I do care that some would march this country into a new tomorrow without any clear idea of what lies beyond, what benefits it will bring beyond vacuous hoorah statements of getting our country back. I don't like the idea that many will lose their jobs, their livelihoods and their futures in order to benefit the few (of which I will take a pretty educated stab you are not one).

So no worse than a normal recession which we are about due anyway. Project fear wrong again. Remainers wrong again.

[EtoileSportiveDeDerby]

7 minutes ago, Montgolfier said:

What about the other ten?

I thought that you wanted British justice to be paramount. What next - get Boris to appeal to the European Court of Justice?

Sorry, this is just getting silly, but very predictable.

Genius, I bet even Cunning Dominic has not thought about that one. 

[Eddie]

19 minutes ago, cstand said:

So no worse than a normal recession which we are about due anyway. Project fear wrong again. Remainers wrong again.

 

Taking the three figures together (GDP reduction, job losses and inflation), we are talking something akin to the 2008-9 recession, which is now referred to as "The Great Recession", or the "Great Depression" of 1929-30.

'Normal' recessions, of which there have been 5 in the last 80 years, normally last 2 or 3 quarters at a stretch. The 2008-9 one lasted 5 quarters and the 1929-31 one lasted two complete years, but we are still feeling the effects of the most recent one even now.

[LittleEatonRam]

6 hours ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

Because it's a representative democracy, with representatives using their own judgement, not delegates. As Edmund Burke put it to the electors of Bristol:

'But his unbiassed opinion, his mature judgment, his enlightened conscience, he ought not to sacrifice to you, to any man, or to any set of men living. These he does not derive from your pleasure; no, nor from the law and the constitution...He is not a member of Bristol, but he is a member of parliament.'

 

Wonder why all those people angry at the Lib Dems for breaking their manifesto promise about Tuition Fees didn't bear that in mind then? You know, most likely the same people who voted Remain.

[Eddie]

15 minutes ago, LittleEatonRam said:

Wonder why all those people angry at the Lib Dems for breaking their manifesto promise about Tuition Fees didn't bear that in mind then? You know, most likely the same people who voted Remain.

It took me some time to get over it. I even voted Conservative once, because we had a UKIP candidate who looked to have a chance of getting in, and there is no way that I would ever bring myself to vote for that foul bunch of racist fanatics masquerading as "nationalists". However, all parties, for one reason or another, fail to fully implement their manifestos, especially as junior partners in a coalition.

One hope, given the fact that the proroguing of Parliament didn't actually take place, is that important legislation such as the Domestic Abuse Bill, the Animal Abuse Bill and the Divorce Bill might not be canned after all, but my guess is that's very unlikely. After all, for Tories, women are chattels and property, and animals are only important when being torn apart by dogs before having their entrails smeared across children's faces.

[Eddie]

And an hour ago, impeachment proceedings (well, an inquiry for now) were started against Trump.

Been a pretty good day so far - now for a beer.

[AndyinLiverpool]

41 minutes ago, LittleEatonRam said:

Wonder why all those people angry at the Lib Dems for breaking their manifesto promise about Tuition Fees didn't bear that in mind then? You know, most likely the same people who voted Remain.

Just because we don’t like something they do doesn’t stop it from being a representative democracy. 

[Mafiabob]

I have to say, for a man who is so opposed to socialism..... Johnson does like getting publicly owned.....

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

Glad so many are excited to see our remain obsessed  MP's back in parliament tomorrow .  I'll save you the trouble of watching Jeremy .  Just watch this on a loop for the next few weeks . 

[1967Ram]

5 hours ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

Glad so many are excited to see our remain obsessed  MP's back in parliament tomorrow .  I'll save you the trouble of watching Jeremy .  Just watch this on a loop for the next few weeks . 

Our MPs are (mainly) anti-no deal leave obsessed IMO.

[BaaLocks]

9 hours ago, cstand said:

So no worse than a normal recession which we are about due anyway. Project fear wrong again. Remainers wrong again.

And comments like these are exactly why I worry most. It's a clear statement, from the Bank Of England, stating the impact Brexit will have on our economy on top of other factors. Yet it doesn't fit your narrative so you write it off as Remaniacs scaring us all with falsehoods.

Wake up, this is our future they are playing with and when you sit back in ten years time saying 'but this isn't what I thought I was getting' remember you had a chance to do something about it but didn't.

[BaaLocks]

46 minutes ago, 1967Ram said:

Our MPs are (mainly) anti-no deal leave obsessed IMO.

If there is one glimmer of credit I can offer to Boris for what he has tried to do it is to stop this endless charade by taking the endless debate out of it all but I am afraid that just isn't possible. I can cope with being divided as a country - we always have been on class, politics, north / south, Tiswas or Swap Shop - but I cannot cope being divided but not quite clear what it is we are divided on.

Clear path forward for me is referendum (deal or remain - no deal is not an option) followed by an election to decide which party is best equipped to deliver it. We all know the Tories will win that but I would have to support that.

[DarkFruitsRam7]

This thread moves far too quickly for me to keep up with it, so I haven't read what's been posted recently.

I'll just leave this here, from 2017:

The same people who were calling for the British Courts and Parliament to have their sovereignty restored are now trying to turn their backs on them, despite them being two of the three key pillars of the UK Constitution. If you abandon the legislature and the judiciary, all you are left with is the executive, which is not itself directly elected. The executive (AKA the Government) is the branch that effectively replaced the monarchy, the dictatorial nature of which made Parliament and the courts necessary in the first place.

The UK constitution is built on a system of checks and balances. The executive, the legislature and the judiciary all must keep each other in check. The moment the executive tries to grab power is the moment the other two branches of government must step in, as they rightly have done.

And I'm someone who believes that we should abide by the referendum result.

[EtoileSportiveDeDerby]

6 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

This thread moves far too quickly for me to keep up with it, so I haven't read what's been posted recently.

I'll just leave this here, from 2017:

The same people who were calling for the British Courts and Parliament to have their sovereignty restored are now trying to turn their backs on them, despite them being two of the three key pillars of the UK Constitution. If you abandon the legislature and the judiciary, all you are left with is the executive, which is not itself directly elected. The executive (AKA the Government) is the branch that effectively replaced the monarchy, the dictatorial nature of which made Parliament and the courts necessary in the first place.

The UK constitution is built on a system of checks and balances. The executive, the legislature and the judiciary all must keep each other in check. The moment the executive tries to grab power is the moment the other two branches of government must step in, as they rightly have done.

And I'm someone who believes that we should abide by the referendum result.

@Montgolfier did mention that the government could still contest the ruling in the ECJ, now that would be funny! 

But you never know with that bunch...

 

[RamNut]

The ECJ rules on EU law. Not sure that all the prorogueration stuff is an any way related to EU law. 

[FindernRam]

Question: How do you win an argument on Social Media?

Answer: No one knows, its never been done.

[Stive Pesley]

22 hours ago, SchtivePesley said:

You'd think so, except I bet he doesn't. I bet he doesn't even bloody resign!

 

As expected - there is no talk of him resigning. Unbelievable really when you consider the cold fact that the British Prime Minister has been judged to have broken the law, and effectively misled the Queen.

Instead he actually says "I respect the decision but profoundly disagree with the judges"?!

I mean, he's not alone in disagreeing with judges - that happens all the time. There are loads of people who disagree with judges. 

They are in prison

 

[G STAR RAM]

3 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

As expected - there is no talk of him resigning. Unbelievable really when you consider the cold fact that the British Prime Minister has been judged to have broken the law and misled the Queen.

Instead he actually says "I respect the decision but profoundly disagree with the judges"?!

I mean, he's not alone in disagreeing with judges - that happens all the time. There are loads of people who disagree with judges. 

They are in prison

One post and then I'm gone again.

Unlawful does not mean breaking the law.

Not all criminals are in prison, infact you will regularly find them partying with Corbyn.