cstand Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 5 minutes ago, Montgolfier said: How do you know? Aren't the population allowed to change their mind now that they realise that Brexit is an absolute horror show that will likely cause a major recession and utterly devastate British industry, destroy the Good Friday Agreement and ultimately lead to the complete break-up of the United Kingdom? Perhaps ask them again? If not, why not? It was a once in a generation vote what did you not understand about that? How many referendums or elections would you suggest until you get the result you want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 49 minutes ago, FindernRam said: How do you know he lied to the Queen. I suspect he was perfectly straight with her, but spun things (in the best Blair/ Campbell traditions) to the rest of us.. But when talking of lying, all these statements from Miller , Gaulke, Major etc, bleating about democracy, does anyone actually believe they are doing it for any other reason than to stop Brexit as voted for by millions. And all politicians lie to us all the time, its expected and accepted behaviour. Right now the majority of politicians are against the majority of the people, how is that democratic? Because it's a representative democracy, with representatives using their own judgement, not delegates. As Edmund Burke put it to the electors of Bristol: 'But his unbiassed opinion, his mature judgment, his enlightened conscience, he ought not to sacrifice to you, to any man, or to any set of men living. These he does not derive from your pleasure; no, nor from the law and the constitution...He is not a member of Bristol, but he is a member of parliament.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 6 minutes ago, Montgolfier said: How do you know? Aren't the population allowed to change their mind now that they realise that Brexit is an absolute horror show that will likely cause a major recession and utterly devastate British industry, destroy the Good Friday Agreement and ultimately lead to the complete break-up of the United Kingdom? Perhaps ask them again? If not, why not? I think the only way out of this now is a second referendum with the options; Remain May/Johnson’s Deal No Deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 5 minutes ago, cannable said: I think the only way out of this now is a second referendum with the options; Remain May/Johnson’s Deal No Deal So what happens withiof the results are: Remain: 49% May/Johnson’s Deal: 26% No Deal: 25% ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 10 minutes ago, cannable said: I think the only way out of this now is a second referendum with the options; Remain May/Johnson’s Deal No Deal I don't think anyone can seriously put no deal on a referendum - it's suicide and only a masochist of low intelligence could vote for that (when offered a sensible leave deal instead) A Labour negotiated deal that protects the rights of all and ensures trade can continue vs remain. Simple as that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 14 minutes ago, Van Wolfie said: So what happens withiof the results are: Remain: 49% May/Johnson’s Deal: 26% No Deal: 25% ? Remain Too many different interpretations of Leave is why we’re in this mess. If Leave can’t get behind one interpretation of Leave then so be it. The constitutional issues surrounded the ECJ and Sovereignty are a scratch on the surface compared the current constitutional crisis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaaLocks Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 33 minutes ago, cstand said: It was a once in a generation vote what did you not understand about that? Well, given we are now one month and one week away from our promised exit date and we don't even know what sort of exit, if at all, we will have then I would suggest quite a lot. If you're a Welsh farmer, likely to lose 250m€ in funding from the EU and looking at an imposed export tariff of 40% on all lamb (92% of Welsh lamb is currently sold in the EU). On top of that 60% of abattoir staff are EU nationals so have no current right to remain, which means even if you can sell it you can't slaughter it. Just one small example, threre are thousands more, but don't tell me you didn't understand that level of detail when you voted in the ridiculously simplified referendum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 45 minutes ago, Spanish said: i have no idea whether the majority of the UK population want a no deal brexit Never underestimate the number of utterly stupid people there are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EtoileSportiveDeDerby Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 34 minutes ago, Van Wolfie said: So what happens withiof the results are: Remain: 49% May/Johnson’s Deal: 26% No Deal: 25% ? Good point, but I would phrase like this Remain THE EASIEST DEAL (HONEST) No Deal And see if people can smell a rat... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstand Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 38 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: I don't think anyone can seriously put no deal on a referendum - it's suicide and only a masochist of low intelligence could vote for that (when offered a sensible leave deal instead) A Labour negotiated deal that protects the rights of all and ensures trade can continue vs remain. Simple as that No deal was on the once in a lifetime EU referendum ballot paper it was leave ..... what do you not understand about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 1 minute ago, cstand said: No deal was on the once in a lifetime EU referendum ballot paper it was leave ..... what do not understand about that? No it wasn’t, it clearly said Remain or Leave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaaLocks Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 Aside of all this jolly back and forth, am I the only one who sometimes steps back and wonders how anyone can endorse a single word our PM says? He has lost his first six Parliamentary votes and in the last couple of days been heavily accused of funding his mistress with public money, plus found guilty of misleading the Queen, breaking the law and wrongly closing down Parliament. Seriously, this is our Prime Minister that has done this - not some jumped up leader of a breakaway republic next to Turkmenistan. It's just incredible that anyone would then say 'but he's the man to get us through this'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaaLocks Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 5 minutes ago, cstand said: No deal was on the once in a lifetime EU referendum ballot paper it was leave ..... what do you not understand about that? It was only advisory, it only passed with a two percent majority (despite this never ending 'democracy has spoken'), the Leave campaign broke electoral funding regulations, it was a flawed question, there was no majority threshold, the Leave campaign was riddled with misleading statements and all out lies. You can stand by your '17.4m people have spoken' if you want but this was not a landslide decision on a concrete proposal - far, far from it. It's not about doing it again and again till we get the right result, it's about clarifying exactly what it is we will sign up to - coz you don't know, and nobody knows (not even our Prime Minister, so please don't tell me you do). And if you say that you signed up to leave, that was it, then all well and good - you shouldn't mind doing it again for the benefit of those who maybe now have a clearer view than just jumping off a bridge without any idea what is beneath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ram for All Seasons Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Van Wolfie said: So what happens withiof the results are: Remain: 49% May/Johnson’s Deal: 26% No Deal: 25% ? No Deal has already been ruled out by Parliament and, as we found out today, Parliament is sovereign. Nothing goes without the approval of Parliament. So that makes it Remain versus May/Johnson’s deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 She’s got some out there brooches that Lady Hale has..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1of4 Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Van Wolfie said: So what happens withiof the results are: Remain: 49% May/Johnson’s Deal: 26% No Deal: 25% ? If the the combine vote is for leave, we leave. A negotiated deal that as been agreed to between the EU and Parliament. Is then put to a second puplic vote along with the no deal option. Which ever one of those two options gets the most votes then that what the country goes with. If the EU are reluctant to negotiate a reasonable deal, it could encourage more people to go with the no deal option. If the majority do vote for a no deal brexit, even a after finding out the true extent of the damage it will do to the country. Then so be it, I'd accept the result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 1 hour ago, cannable said: Remain Too many different interpretations of Leave is why we’re in this mess. If Leave can’t get behind one interpretation of Leave then so be it. The constitutional issues surrounded the ECJ and Sovereignty are a scratch on the surface compared the current constitutional crisis. A lot of remainers argue that the EU needs to reform and we're better placed to do that by not leaving... Therefore the question becomes; 1. Remain (as is) 2. Remain (but only if we can negotiate reforms) 3. Leave (with a deal) 4. Leave (clean break) A second referendum would be floored. Remaining will p1$$ off half the country and leaving will p1$$ of the other half. Good job climate change will kill us all first anyway really ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 7 minutes ago, maxjam said: A lot of remainers argue that the EU needs to reform and we're better placed to do that by not leaving... Therefore the question becomes; 1. Remain (as is) 2. Remain (but only if we can negotiate reforms) 3. Leave (with a deal) 4. Leave (clean break) A second referendum would be floored. Remaining will p1$$ off half the country and leaving will p1$$ of the other half. Good job climate change will kill us all first anyway really ? Yeah fair, what if we can’t negotiate reform though? It’s almost as if it’s too complicated an issue to go to the electorate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Ram Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 1 hour ago, SchtivePesley said: I don't think anyone can seriously put no deal on a referendum - it's suicide and only a masochist of low intelligence could vote for that (when offered a sensible leave deal instead) A Labour negotiated deal that protects the rights of all and ensures trade can continue vs remain. Simple as that Simple as that? Jeremy is still trying to work out if he wants one, two or no Deputy Leaders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRamFan Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 Boris Johnson has made more of a laughing stock and damage to the sovereignty of this country, than any law that has 'forced' on to us by the EU. We have always had our sovereignty, just another brexit lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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