ketteringram Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 22 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: Four day week - yep I'm up for that I've been doing that for years, due to working away from home. Usually do 42 to 45 hours per week. Anything over 40 being paid at time and a third. Will my employer carry on paying that , if I drop to a 32 hour week ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnram Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 1 hour ago, AndyinLiverpool said: I read something very interesting (but can't remember the source) that suggested that it's specifically boarding schools that are the cause for ducking us over. You go to boarding school and it's a feral atmosphere of survival. A gauntlet of house masters, bullies etc create a 'kill or be killed' approach to survival, which basically destroys any feelings of empathy. What you are left with a bunch of self-obsessed individuals who continue through adult life with their 'better him than me' attitude. And it's these people that run the country. People who lack basic social skills like empathy but are adept at watching others take the rap, adept at stabbing others in the back, adept at survival at all costs. First let me pick out anything that is correct in that statement: ? Now we have that out of the way let me assure you that it couldn’t be further from the truth. The majority of pupils in private schools are not from privileged backgrounds, they are from families that stretch their budget to pay for it. It is most definitely not a feral atmosphere, nor are there a gauntlet of housemasters and bullies etc. You will find that the basic social skills and ambitions instilled in them will give them an advantage, as will the expectations that they will work hard and achieve. I don’t see anything wrong with that. I suspect that this would be a vote loser rather than winner and would be fought through the courts should Corbyn and his politburo ever get elected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therealhantsram Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 17 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: Four day week - yep I'm up for that Abolish Ofsted - can't see that being popular with parents. Abolish private schools - I suspect most people don't really care. A four day week and a return to collective bargaining. Wow. For anyone who remembers the 1970s - this was not a good thing. But regardless, I can't see how they can win an election with these policies. They are policies designed to appeal to 'workers' But I don't think there are enough people who consider themselves the "workers" to vote for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therealhantsram Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 Just reading more about the speech today... they claim they are going to... Reduce the working week to 4 days, yet keep everyone's pay the same (!?) Provide free childcare Free prescriptions Free university education Free public transport for under 25s Free school meals for all Free social care for over 65s. Seriously? I can't see how that adds up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 21 minutes ago, therealhantsram said: Abolish Ofsted - can't see that being popular with parents. It's popular with me and I'm a parent and so are many of my friends. One of them is a school governor and everyone on the school board is ecstatic at the thought. Needs to be replaced with something more fit for purpose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritstone Ram Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 31 minutes ago, ketteringram said: I've been doing that for years, due to working away from home. Usually do 42 to 45 hours per week. Anything over 40 being paid at time and a third. Will my employer carry on paying that , if I drop to a 32 hour week ?? I bet there is some man or woman in China prepared to do twice as many hours for 1/4 of the pay too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnram Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 11 minutes ago, therealhantsram said: Just reading more about the speech today... they claim they are going to... Reduce the working week to 4 days, yet keep everyone's pay the same (!?) Provide free childcare Free prescriptions Free university education Free public transport for under 25s Free school meals for all Free social care for over 65s. Seriously? I can't see how that adds up. I can't see how anyone could think that will add up. Increase company staff costs by at least 25%? Didn't they promise free uni education last time round then confess it wasn't possible? I agree with free public transport while education is in place as that will help the environment. It all adds up to rampant inflation, increased taxes and the economy going out of control. Takes me back to the Labour goverments of 40 odd years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 19 minutes ago, therealhantsram said: Just reading more about the speech today... they claim they are going to... Reduce the working week to 4 days, yet keep everyone's pay the same (!?) Provide free childcare Free prescriptions Free university education Free public transport for under 25s Free school meals for all Free social care for over 65s. Seriously? I can't see how that adds up. It doesn't. Labour are going right back to the 70's. Union bosses dream up these policies for the Labour Party in order to present themselves as on the side of the workers and continue to claim their salary that's bigger than the Prime Minister earns. Do they even care if makes Labour unelectable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therealhantsram Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 6 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: It's popular with me and I'm a parent and so are many of my friends. One of them is a school governor and everyone on the school board is ecstatic at the thought. Needs to be replaced with something more fit for purpose Yes, I can imagine schools being pleased. Schools are effectively small businesses. If you told any small business owner they would get reduced regulation and reduced competition they too would be delighted. But as a parent - I'm curious - why is it popular with you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 32 minutes ago, bcnram said: First let me pick out anything that is correct in that statement: ? Now we have that out of the way let me assure you that it couldn’t be further from the truth. The majority of pupils in private schools are not from privileged backgrounds, they are from families that stretch their budget to pay for it. It is most definitely not a feral atmosphere, nor are there a gauntlet of housemasters and bullies etc. You will find that the basic social skills and ambitions instilled in them will give them an advantage, as will the expectations that they will work hard and achieve. I don’t see anything wrong with that. I suspect that this would be a vote loser rather than winner and would be fought through the courts should Corbyn and his politburo ever get elected. I don't think the source of the payments to the school is the issue, just the situation they are all placed in. Now, I didn't go to one of these schools but I am from a town, Rugby, that is dominated by one. And the stories are rife about what goes on. Of course, it could all be gossip about an institution that is, for want of a better description, veiled in secrecy. The idea that well-rounded individuals with an empathetic sense of togetherness come out of these places is not born out by my experience of interaction with the inmates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 Interesting. I look forward to the same amount of fiscal scrutiny of the Tories policies when they formally announce them at conference! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 37 minutes ago, therealhantsram said: Abolish Ofsted - can't see that being popular with parents. Abolish private schools - I suspect most people don't really care. A four day week and a return to collective bargaining. Wow. For anyone who remembers the 1970s - this was not a good thing. But regardless, I can't see how they can win an election with these policies. They are policies designed to appeal to 'workers' But I don't think there are enough people who consider themselves the "workers" to vote for this. As a parent, I wouldn't miss Ofsted for a second. They won't abolish private schools. There is no chance of it being continued by a subsequent Tory government. Stripping tax incentives and charity status would be popular, as it is difficult to justify and it would certainly be difficult for any future Tory government to reinstate. There is plenty of evidence to suggest productivity would not be diminished by people working 4 days instead of 5. We ourselves are on the point of going to a 4.5-day week, largely because Friday afternoon is largely pointless and more will be gained by people having that extra free time. That said, I don't think anybody wins an election in the UK promising a return to collective bargaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 7 minutes ago, therealhantsram said: Yes, I can imagine schools being pleased. Schools are effectively small businesses. If you told any small business owner they would get reduced regulation and reduced competition they too would be delighted. But as a parent - I'm curious - why is it popular with you? You perhaps haven't read past the headlines? It's not scrap it and replace it with nothing. The suggestion is to have a more useful and pragmatic (and frequent!) inspection system, aimed at improving things for the children - not just at rating the school. OFSTED come in once a year and measure "excellence". It puts massive pressure on the staff and the kids, and doesn't really ensure any kind of improvement. A lot of schools just game the system to give a false impression to the inspectors anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 Just now, SchtivePesley said: You perhaps haven't read past the headlines? It's not scrap it and replace it with nothing. The suggestion is to have a more useful and pragmatic (and frequent!) inspection system, aimed at improving things for the children - not just at rating the school. OFSTED come in once a year and measure "excellence". It puts massive pressure on the staff and the kids, and doesn't really ensure any kind of improvement. A lot of schools just game the system to give a false impression to the inspectors anyway And an awful lot of the things the schools do - from communicating this and that to open evenings and meet the teacher events - are clearly Ofsted box-ticking exercises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 21 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said: That said, I don't think anybody wins an election in the UK promising a return to collective bargaining. Agreed - it's not really a popular term these days and has negative connotations (it certainly sends all the old Tory gits into hand-wringing about "return to the 70s" doesn't it?) The problem is that the unions have been so crippled since then that they are to all intents and purposes useless for collective action. Large employers have taken this as a green light to exploit workers wholesale. You can't collective bargain any more so you get no pay rises at all If this is an attempt at redressing the balance it a little more to recognise the symbiosis between the employee and the employer then I'm all for it, but for gods sake don't go calling it collective bargaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 2 hours ago, AndyinLiverpool said: To be honest as this world goes is to be one man picked out of ten thousand. Johnson has managed to get sacked twice for lying. I can only conclude that the people who put him in his current position either don't care whether he is honest or they are complete suckers. A corrupt referendum, the result of which is to be implemented by a corrupt prime minister. Kind of fitting really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therealhantsram Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 16 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said: And an awful lot of the things the schools do - from communicating this and that to open evenings and meet the teacher events - are clearly Ofsted box-ticking exercises. Interesting. I don't see that kind of attitude coming through at all at my kids schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 2 hours ago, bcnram said: The majority of pupils in private schools are not from privileged backgrounds, they are from families that stretch their budget to pay for it. You will find that the basic social skills and ambitions instilled in them will give them an advantage, as will the expectations that they will work hard and achieve. I don’t see anything wrong with that. You see - you're now just making me imagine how much better state the country would be in if this standard of education was available for free to absolutely everyone regardless. Not sure that was your intention though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ram for All Seasons Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 2 hours ago, SchtivePesley said: Interesting. I look forward to the same amount of fiscal scrutiny of the Tories policies when they formally announce them at conference! Tory policies usually amount to cutting this, slashing that and cutting back on the other. For some strange reason, they have now decided to sound as if they are to start spending again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnram Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 53 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: You see - you're now just making me imagine how much better state the country would be in if this standard of education was available for free to absolutely everyone regardless. Not sure that was your intention though. Wouldn’t that be fantastic. However, it won’t be achieved by dragging the better privately financed schools down. To match what the private schools provide, the school working day will have to increase, parents will have to take an interest and discipline will have to be a major part. Can’t see that happening somehow, but hope it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.