Stive Pesley Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 6 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: One post and then I'm gone again. Unlawful does not mean breaking the law. Gone again? That's a shame as I was going to ask you for a more detailed semantic breakdown of how "acting unlawfully" is so subtley different to "breaking the law". I'm pretty that's the most important thing to start debating right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 33 minutes ago, RamNut said: The ECJ rules on EU law. Not sure that all the prorogueration stuff is an any way related to EU law. Totalitarian governments are not permitted in the EU, and permitting an indefinite prorogation would be a first step in leading to that, so by default a judgement could only go one way (in my opinion anyway - not a law-talking guy). If the Supreme Court had ruled the other way, then Boris might, in theory, have been able to prorogue Parliament for as long as he wished, which would inevitably have led to suspension or expulsion of Britain from the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 12 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: One post and then I'm gone again. Unlawful does not mean breaking the law. Not all criminals are in prison, infact you will regularly find them partying with Corbyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 12 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: Gone again? That's a shame as I was going to ask you for a more detailed semantic breakdown of how "acting unlawfully" is so subtley different to "breaking the law". I'm pretty that's the most important thing to start debating right now Someone will probably get sacked but it won't be Boris https://news.sky.com/story/exclusive-pm-was-advised-by-attorney-general-suspension-was-lawful-11818599 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRamFan Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 For the ones that what to toss off on semantics: Black's Law Dictionary defines unlawful as not authorized by law, illegal. Illegal is defined as forbidden by law, unlawful. Semantically, there is a slight difference. It seems that something illegal is expressly proscribed by statute, and something unlawful is just not expressly authorized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 I think this speaks volumes for who the target audience of gammon-faced Brexiteers is. A pun on the catchphrase of a comedian who died in 1983 and his work has rarely been repeated due to how dated it now seems (rampant sexism, homophobia and racism) There is an entire generation to whom this headline is meaningless. The same generation to whom the idea of a physical newspaper is also meaningless I guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRamFan Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 13 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: There is an entire generation to whom this headline is meaningless. The same generation to whom the idea of a physical newspaper is also meaningless I guess I would say 2 generations, but the Sun still has it's target market, they are slightly more intelligent than The Star reader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteHorseRam Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 Well, the mods might as well prorogue this thread. Both 'sides' totally entrenched, no ones views ever change. Oh, and now one side has taken it's ball home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 7 minutes ago, WhiteHorseRam said: Well, the mods might as well prorogue this thread. Unlawful! 7 minutes ago, WhiteHorseRam said: Both 'sides' totally entrenched, no ones views ever change Largely true, but I do enjoy having my views challenged and that's healthy Rather than get entrenched in the wrong or right - what about some predictions? I'm really struggling to guess what happens next I still can't see Labour agreeing to an election until the Brexit extension is sorted. In some ways the recall of parliament makes that harder as we've recalled what is essentially a non-functioning parliament (PM has no majority and the rest of the house is only united by the desire to remove no-deal from the table) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRamFan Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 10 minutes ago, WhiteHorseRam said: Well, the mods might as well prorogue this thread. Both 'sides' totally entrenched, no ones views ever change. Oh, and now one side has taken it's ball home. It was a slightly flat, old and knackered casey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 5 minutes ago, WhiteHorseRam said: Well, the mods might as well prorogue this thread. Both 'sides' totally entrenched, no ones views ever change. Oh, and now one side has taken it's ball home. It's strange but you are right. However I still put myself in the camp that I voted remain, would vote remain again, yet still think because of the high proportion of people who voted leave, we need to leave. Staying in would not work in my opinion. In fact I'd say in a referendum, unless the vote was 2/3rds in favour of repealing article 50, I wouldn't support remaining - change needs to be that radical. But we as a country are so unprepared for leaving. Leaving with some form of deal would mean we can avoid some of the major problems. We can still use the EU infrastructure if we're still part of it. There will be a way for UK exports for those industries that rely on it. We can still ensure we can get access to those things we need, such as medicines and water treatment chemicals. Leaving without a deal would take preparation that we just haven't done. We haven't built the infrastructure that we need in order go work without the EU's assistance. It's possible, but I guess it would take years to put in place, cost a lot of money and mean we have administrative nightmares to sort out. No deal works if you do the spadework, which we don't seem to accept. There's a bravado/foolhardiness of adopting the trenches mentality that we can overcome any sort of setback, that no problem is too great for Blighty to overcome. Now I'm not old enough to remember it, but wasn't the 70s our acceptance that Blighty can't overcome the world alone, that we were sliding into obscurity as a nation? What makes us think we're in a stronger situation that we were then? Oh yes. We've been 40 years one of the largest players in one of the biggest trading blocs in the world, which has helped us cement our place at the table. Maybe that's made people fall into a false sense of security. We didn't get where we are now without being part of something bigger. Can we replace it? Possibly, but not without a lot of preparation and planning. We just haven't tried. Too much blagging and bravado, the EU won't walk away without a deal, we're too important. However they've shown they aren't going to back down from the deal that May agreed, and rather than admit there's egg on British faces we're just going to leave and show them how wrong they were. It's almost schoolboy in it's petulance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee SCREAMER !! Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 4 hours ago, 1967Ram said: Our MPs are (mainly) anti-no deal leave obsessed IMO. The SNP, Lib Dem- the revoking family favourite , lets put forward an awful deal and then campaign against our own deal to remain -Labour . Hmm can't say I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 17 minutes ago, McRamFan said: Think you just broke the rules, again. Pretty sure discussing/mentioning warnings is a no no. You're thinking of Fight Club I think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteHorseRam Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 1 hour ago, SchtivePesley said: Unlawful! Largely true, but I do enjoy having my views challenged and that's healthy Rather than get entrenched in the wrong or right - what about some predictions? I'm really struggling to guess what happens next I still can't see Labour agreeing to an election until the Brexit extension is sorted. In some ways the recall of parliament makes that harder as we've recalled what is essentially a non-functioning parliament (PM has no majority and the rest of the house is only united by the desire to remove no-deal from the table) Predictions? You couldn't make any of this **** up. Solid prediction - Armando Iannucci staying on his sunbed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EtoileSportiveDeDerby Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 And they are back shouting at each other with posh words. 2 weeks rest and a quick getaway (Thomas cook late deal) hasn't helped, uncle Barry's blood pressure going through the roof. Proper rant that is, gone purple. https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-politics-49827309/no-shame-over-supreme-court-ruling-says-labour-mp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 5 hours ago, maxjam said: Someone will probably get sacked but it won't be Boris https://news.sky.com/story/exclusive-pm-was-advised-by-attorney-general-suspension-was-lawful-11818599 Can't see the AG going either based on that performance. He was laughing in the face of parliament. I guess he knows that if he admits he gave terrible legal advice to the PM then his career as a lawyer is over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 9 minutes ago, EtoileSportiveDeDerby said: And they are back shouting at each other with posh words. 2 weeks rest and a quick getaway (Thomas cook late deal) hasn't helped, uncle Barry's blood pressure going through the roof. Proper rant that is, gone purple. https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-politics-49827309/no-shame-over-supreme-court-ruling-says-labour-mp Hardly surprising that the opposition are a bit miffed that the prime minister lied to the queen and disbanded parliament to get what he wants, against the wishes of the members. What would you rather they do? Tut a bit? But on that picture above, he does look a lovely shade of gammon. I watched the video - he does have a bit of a point, don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EtoileSportiveDeDerby Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, GboroRam said: Hardly surprising that the opposition are a bit miffed that the prime minister lied to the queen and disbanded parliament to get what he wants, against the wishes of the members. What would you rather they do? Tut a bit? But on that picture above, he does look a lovely shade of gammon. I watched the video - he does have a bit of a point, don't you think? Don't get me wrong, he does have a point! Watching parliament proceeding is becoming a bit of a spectator sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRamFan Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 4 hours ago, SchtivePesley said: You're thinking of Fight Club I think? Probably, watching it now on BBC Parliament... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 29 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: Can't see the AG going either based on that performance. He was laughing in the face of parliament. I guess he knows that if he admits he gave terrible legal advice to the PM then his career as a lawyer is over Not for one second am I defending the dodgy prorogation but there is some weight to the argument that they thought it was OK from a legal perspective (if not a moral one). After all, the High Court did agree with them. It looked odd to me that a High Court decision was then so unanimously binned by 11 Supreme Court judges and in such strong terms yesterday. Whoever those High Court judges were, they look a bit silly now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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