The Politics Thread 2019

[ariotofmyown]

Which vile and racist leader will go first, Trump or Johnson?

I think Johnson could be gone before the 31st. Either resign or gone with a caretaker government. Think the Tories will then hound him out to replace him with a moderate.

Trump's impeachment will take longer. Maybe sooner if they declare him mentally unfit.

[Gritstone Ram]

36 minutes ago, A Ram for All Seasons said:

The Supreme Court has confirmed the sovereignty of Parliament. Remoaner and non-remoaner MPs have joined together to approve the Benn bill that requires Boris Johnson to go to the EU and ask the EU to allow Britain to stay on for a bit longer if no acceptable deal is reached (which it won't be). . 

Parliament is sovereign and can decide whatever it wants, provided there is a majority. 

I look forward to Boris being found "dead in a ditch" (his words) on 31 October. He should do as he is told by parliament.

What about the result of the referendum? Does that count for anything in your legal mumble jumble?

[ariotofmyown]

6 minutes ago, Van Gritters said:

What about the result of the referendum? Does that count for anything in your legal mumble jumble?

Johnson will get us a tremendous deal from the EU. It will be one of the greatest deals ever made. It will probably be the best deal ever made ever. He is working really hard on it now. Tremendously hard. Harder than anyone has ever worked on a deal. 

[A Ram for All Seasons]

32 minutes ago, Van Gritters said:

What about the result of the referendum? Does that count for anything in your legal mumble jumble?

It didn't say anything about any sort of deal in the referendum. That's up to Parliament to decide, and Parliament doesn't like the deal on offer, i.e. no deal. No deal, no Brexit.

[Andicis]

5 hours ago, Montgolfier said:

How come Brexiteers fail to respect the wishes of Scotland and Northern Ireland? It's Engexit really, isn't it? Even the Welsh hate you now.

I have a question for you. Do you agree it's fair that Trump is US President, despite losing the popular vote? 

We're the United Kingdom, we make decisions as a collective. Scotland had the option to leave the UK and opted not to, so they have to respect the decision made as a collective. If not, I'm sure if they pushed for it they could get another referendum on independence.

[G STAR RAM]

10 hours ago, Montgolfier said:

How come Brexiteers fail to respect the wishes of Scotland and Northern Ireland? It's Engexit really, isn't it? Even the Welsh hate you now.

Silly argument. After all of this time have you only just noticed how the United Kingdom voting system works? Maybe we should use other demographics, only men should leave the EU maybe?

8 hours ago, A Ram for All Seasons said:

The Supreme Court has confirmed the sovereignty of Parliament. Remoaner and non-remoaner MPs have joined together to approve the Benn bill that requires Boris Johnson to go to the EU and ask the EU to allow Britain to stay on for a bit longer if no acceptable deal is reached (which it won't be). . 

Parliament is sovereign and can decide whatever it wants, provided there is a majority. 

I look forward to Boris being found "dead in a ditch" (his words) on 31 October. He should do as he is told by parliament.

Shouldnt Teresa May do what she was told when Parliament voted by a large majority for Article 50 to be invoked? Remainers seem very selective in when they want Sovereignty to be applied, and bizarrely seem to be saying that it is Leavers that dont respect it.

6 hours ago, A Ram for All Seasons said:

It didn't say anything about any sort of deal in the referendum. That's up to Parliament to decide, and Parliament doesn't like the deal on offer, i.e. no deal. No deal, no Brexit.

Where during the Referendum did anyone advise this?

[Spanish]

7 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

Johnson will get us a tremendous deal from the EU. It will be one of the greatest deals ever made. It will probably be the best deal ever made ever. He is working really hard on it now. Tremendously hard. Harder than anyone has ever worked on a deal. 

excellent, do you write trump's speeches?  There maybe a career switch for you, all that is missing is at the end something like 'everybody agrees'.

[ariotofmyown]

1 minute ago, Spanish said:

excellent, do you write trump's speeches?  There maybe a career switch for you, all that is missing is at the end something like 'everybody agrees'.

I did not say that Johnson would get a deal from the EU. It's sad that people like you keep repeating the same fake news. Everyone agrees that I made no comments on Johnson's ability to get a deal from the EU. It is a tremendous hoax for people to say I did. No poster on here has ever had to put up with more abuse on than me. Read my lips: Johnson will get a tremendous deal from the EU.

[Eddie]

So that's where we are now - the PM showing supreme contempt for the Supreme Court, and using the name of a murdered MP to further his own ambitions.

You Tories should be so proud.

[McRamFan]

8 hours ago, Van Gritters said:

What about the result of the referendum? Does that count for anything in your legal mumble jumble?

Hmm....go look at the rules regarding referendums, go look at the people that voted and the ones that didn't.  Look at the lies from both sides.  It was a very small margin.  It was illegal.

If you think for one moment that leave has the best interest of the average PAYE, retired, JAM or anyone else that isn't living off 'funds', then you are deluded.

Like I have asked before, what benefits will we get when we leave?  How are they going to be better than what we have now?  Why would the world deal with the UK first and the EU second?

Still waiting for answers...come on brexiteers tell me how it's going to be an utopia post brexit.  Just a heads up, sovereignty is off the table, Supreme Court has actually strengthened that. 

Are you pro leave?  If so why have you renamed yourself to be some sort of a quasi Dutch persona? Ironic.

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, McRamFan said:

Hmm....go look at the rules regarding referendums, go look at the people that voted and the ones that didn't.  Look at the lies from both sides.  It was a very small margin.  It was illegal.

Ah so the Referendum was illegal now? That's a new one. Should pass on your information to Gina Miller if I was you.

If you think for one moment that leave has the best interest of the average PAYE, retired, JAM or anyone else that isn't living off 'funds', then you are deluded.

Calling people deluded all of the time shows that you dont even consider anything other than your own opinion  to be correct and basically makes you look...deluded.

Like I have asked before, what benefits will we get when we leave?  How are they going to be better than what we have now?  Why would the world deal with the UK first and the EU second?

Potential benefits of leaving:-

-  no membership bill to pay. Somewhere between £8.5bn and £9bn net back in our own coffers to spend how we decide

- free to negotiate our own trade deals

- regain our sovereignty

- regain control of our borders and limit immigration which is affecting access to housing, public services, competition for jobs and rates of pay. I would also say getting control of our borders improves our security following Merkels suicidal decision to flood Europe with Syrians

Still waiting for answers...come on brexiteers tell me how it's going to be an utopia post brexit.  Just a heads up, sovereignty is off the table, Supreme Court has actually strengthened that. 

I dont think I have seen anyone say we will be a post Brexit utopia and saying things like that once again show your complete inability to try and have a reasonable and balanced discussion on the matter.

The Supreme Court ruling does not really prove anything. It was ruling on something that was not written in law and let's be honest the 11-0 outcome, despite the Attorney General and the High Court both saying it was lawful, says to me that there was a different agenda being used.

 

[Stive Pesley]

1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said:

Potential benefits of leaving:-

-  no membership bill to pay. Somewhere between £8.5bn and £9bn net back in our own coffers to spend how we decide

Just out of interest - do you accept the premise that a Tory-negotiated Brexit is more likely to see a larger proportion of that £9bn diverted into the pockets of private companies and that a Labour-negotiated Brexit is more likely to see a larger proportion of that £9bn diverted towards improving the life of the ordinary person on the street?

And I mean - please I know it's hypothetical but base your working out on what the Tories have done with public money over the past ~10 years and Labour's stated aims to improve life for the many not the few

Cheers

[Eddie]

3 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

The Supreme Court ruling does not really prove anything. It was ruling on something that was not written in law and let's be honest the 11-0 outcome, despite the Attorney General and the High Court both saying it was lawful, says to me that there was a different agenda being used.

So there you have it, folks - the unanimity of the Supreme Court on this issue just tells this poster that they are really Remainers. Such insight, such knowledge of the law, and to quote another person who agrees with him, such humbug. 

 

[G STAR RAM]

2 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

Just out of interest - do you accept the premise that a Tory-negotiated Brexit is more likely to see a larger proportion of that £9bn diverted into the pockets of private companies and that a Labour-negotiated Brexit is more likely to see a larger proportion of that £9bn diverted towards improving the life of the ordinary person on the street?

And I mean - please I know it's hypothetical but base your working out on what the Tories have done with public money over the past ~10 years and Labour's stated aims to improve life for the many not the few

Cheers

Yes 100%.

But I cant see Labour negotiating any worthwhile deal when they are putting it out there that they would campaign against their own deal anyway.

[G STAR RAM]

6 minutes ago, Montgolfier said:

So there you have it, folks - the unanimity of the Supreme Court on this issue just tells this poster that they are really Remainers. Such insight, such knowledge of the law, and to quote another person who agrees with him, such humbug. 

 

Do you not find it in anyway strange that the High Court and Attorney General found different but the Supreme Court ruled unanimously?

I dont have any insight or knowledge into law, nor would I need to because they were ruling on something that was not written in law.

I assume you must have more insight than me to form your own opinion?

[maxjam]

6 minutes ago, Montgolfier said:

So there you have it, folks - the unanimity of the Supreme Court on this issue just tells this poster that they are really Remainers. Such insight, such knowledge of the law, and to quote another person who agrees with him, such humbug. 

 

Did you listen to the video I posted on the previous page?  There's a fair bit of insight and knowledge coming from David Starkey imo.

[Stive Pesley]

5 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

But I cant see Labour negotiating any worthwhile deal when they are putting it out there that they would campaign against their own deal anyway.

It does seem bizarrely counter-intuitive that this would very likely happen, but you can't help thinking that if Cameron had negotiated a deal FIRST and then held a referendum on MY DEAL or REMAIN, then we wouldn't be in this mess

It's the right approach, just 3 years too late *

 

*and with the added bonus of the entire nation now being so totally sick of it all that we're largely past caring.

[Eddie]

1 minute ago, maxjam said:

Did you listen to the video I posted on the previous page?  There's a fair bit of insight and knowledge coming from David Starkey imo.

No, I'm afraid that is not possible for me to do.

Does he blame Dominic Grieve for everything that is wrong in the world, as usual?

[G STAR RAM]

2 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

It does seem bizarrely counter-intuitive that this would very likely happen, but you can't help thinking that if Cameron had negotiated a deal FIRST and then held a referendum on MY DEAL or REMAIN, then we wouldn't be in this mess

It's the right approach, just 3 years too late *

 

*and with the added bonus of the entire nation now being so totally sick of it all that we're largely past caring.

I didnt think the EU would have negotiated any deal until Article 50 was invoked?

We have made a dogs dinner of this and there is no excuse but let's not pretend that the EU have not also played a major part in us being where we are at.

[McRamFan]

6 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

 

Hmm I go to quote you and it comes up with nothing...not surprised.

Illegal, not new, been in the press countless times.

You only consider your own opinion, is it mutually exclusive to you?

40 odd trade agreements out the window, you really think the UK will get a better deal than a trading block?  If so tell me how that works, but you can't as you know that the bigger the market the better the deal.

We never lost our sovereignty, another brexit ******** lie.  The UK has the mother of all veto's.  Name one thing that the EU has forced on to the UK that is having a negative impact on the UK?  Yet another question you will fail to answer.

We have more immigration from outside of the EU, leaving won't change that.  Yet another 'fact' that doesn't look at the whole picture.  Or are you just frightened of people who can communicate in more than one language?  This country, since the World Wars has needed immigration, just to keep the lights.  Utterly naive point of view.

So did you miss all the brexit MP's saying we'll get the best deals, it will be virtually the same deal, it will be easy, etc.?

It's the Supreme Court, it was set up because that is how democracy works.  It is a set of checks and balances.  Go read wiki and you will have a better grasp.  Just because it's not written, does not mean it cannot be unlawful.  Your grasp of the law is quite weak.  Law, by it's nature, is constantly tested.

You are the one incapable of having a balanced discussion, as you do your utmost to avoid answering a direct question.  You just deflect, and reiterate the same sound bites, that have no factual backing.