brady1993

2 hours ago, David said:

Byrne has been poorly advised at his age, had he knocked on Rosenior’s door and said look, I really would like to leave if possible, I have no doubts he would have been given the go ahead to find a new club.

Given his age and contract, you can’t imagine we would have wanted silly money for him, meanwhile he would continue to be paid, training.

As a professional footballer, if no club was to show any interest, he would have the chance to knuckle down and show his heads now here for the season. It’s possible, look at Harry Kane, albeit slightly different situation.

What Byrne has done is burnt his bridges, there is no way he would be accepted back into the team either by Rosenior or the fans, potentially finds himself sitting out for a season now until this is all sorted out.

Also think it has publicly damaged his reputation somewhat, when signing players clubs will run the background checks, what’s he like, is he professional, trains hard, on time…..now he’s seen as a player trying to find loopholes to jump ship when the going gets tough. That’s not a character trait you want in the dressing room.

The other thing that he risks a little is that clubs essentially forget about him. He's not a player with that big a profile and for most of his career his football has been split between league 1 and the bottom end of the championship. The longer this draws out, the longer he hasn't trained and the more likely anyone who would be interested has moved on largely because he's not an irreplaceable target. 

I mean look at someone like Wisdom who is still without a club and he conducted himself far better and had a higher profile.

Just now, jono said:

True enough but his running off the ball in to space helped enormously. That old adage, make yourself available. He covered miles on that flank with some lung bursting runs, just to be an option for the man with the ball or an extra threat for the defender to watch. 

That's a fair challenge and true. Still I can't shake the feeling that he was a touch overrated going forwards especially as we played in a way that would work the ball out to him in space a fair bit.

10 minutes ago, jono said:

This really does feel like a fresh start. I am so happy and full of enthusiasm.

If you think about it, all our woes were becoming visible prior to Covid. We entered the closed stadium era full of fear and doubt. Who remembers those echoing Rams TV games ? Then in the back of your mind the “this sounds bad, what’s going on?” The embargoes, the playing 16 year olds in cup games, can we loan anyone at all ! , will the wages get paid ? Then a brief respite as the stadium part opened, I shed a tear then when the team came out then but it was hard, so very hard. The us against them of last season a bitter attritional battle against the odds with the EFL sticking spokes in the wheels at every opportunity, yet we stuck together, found reserves of fervour, spirit and grit that will live in my memory. Then at the death, being tortured by a charlatan, a custodian of tawdry self promotion. We’ve done 3 years of penal servitude. Today we walk free. Let’s enjoy it !

Meanwhile we need a right back and we are short a striker. A problem ? Naaaa that’s not a problem that’s football. 

Even then we do have a right back and a few people who've played there before. We do have a fit striker, one to come back from fitness and a couple young strikers to fill in. That feels like nothing compared to some of the stuff we've had to deal with squad wise.

11 minutes ago, David said:

Regardless of what happens today, I just don’t want to see us play with 2 DM’s.

The reality is, were one of the bigger to beat teams and we do have some real quality for this division, wouldn’t be surprised to see most teams sit back and try to hit us on the counter directly. Accepting they will only have a few chances and try to make the most of them. 

I just want to see positive football, on the front foot, be attacking and exciting team to watch. Possession stats don’t win you games.  

I don't think that's the intent tactically based on pre-season, at least as Plan A.

We will either line up on paper as a 4231 or 433 but the intent is that when we have the ball we will look more like a 2323 with full backs helping Bird rotate play and the other midfielder/s pushing on with more freedom to try to find space. Clearest example was against Hertha Berlin where Hourihane nominally played in a 2 with Bird but any time we had possession he'd push really far forward in line with McGoldrick. 

I think the only times we will see more than one midfielder sitting this season is when one of two things happens; we are protecting a lead or weirdly when Fozzy plays left back.

3 hours ago, DCFC1976 said:

Decent player but he’d quite often get into some good positions and the final ball wasn’t always the best. Not the worst by any stretch but considering the amount of times he would get into a position to assist his final ball wouldn’t be there…. or is it just me?

I kinda agree. 

Always thought that in an attacking sense he was pretty 1 dimensional. Get a half a yard and loft floaty ball in the box. He'd pretty consistently do it and would be in the right area but it'd not always be the best option and wasn't hard to defend against for the most part because there was no real pace at it was at head height.

I will say though had we had a good target man at the time then he'd have probably racked up assists for fun. 

2 hours ago, duncanjwitham said:

I half wonder if we might end up with something like Roberts playing when Davies and Chester do (because we want a quicker fullback to be able to cover in behind those 2), but Forsyth plays when Cashin is in there (because Cashin is a bit more mobile than the other 2, but we'd like an experienced head on both sides of him).

I actually think its got more to do with how we want to set up tactically on the ball more than anything. 

Roberts, Bird and Knight having been making a line of 3 when we have the ball for the most part. With Knight and Roberts tucking in. And they a primarily responsible with starting the play. 

Roberts seems very good and comfortable at doing this. Where as frankly Fozzy wouldn't be.

So when Fozzy has played we've tended to do something a bit different and basically pushed him high,  wide and frankly out of the way. Typically another midfielder comes and plays that role then, with the left winger also tucking in field (as opposed to staying very wide). It's why I think Fozzy and Sibley have often been tried as a pair on the left. 

Either way I think that's firmly a plan B (especially as it hasn't particularly looked functional so far) and has been devised mostly with the recognition that are squad has players that don't quite fit plan A past the first team.

1 hour ago, duncanjwitham said:

There’s any even bigger issue, that I suspect many fans have yet to realise the true magnitude of…

WhoScored detailed match stats only go down to the championship, so we’re out of scope this season ?. How will we argue about who’s the better winger when we can’t compare their average crosses per minute played? How will we know who’s the best midfielder when we can’t cross reference their pass completion stats to their key passes per 90 minutes? We might have to actually watch the games ?

Clearly the only solution is to nominate a brave soul from the forum to document it all for us. 

How else will we be able to talk about anything ?

16 hours ago, Coconut's Beard said:

No chance IMO but there's no shame in that, it's why we had so many hopes attached to, and struggled so much to replace, George Thorne.

We had a system where the CBs could focus almost entirely on their forward play because the DM was so, so good at his job. Eustace wasn't the complete player of course but he was surrounded by a lot of quality.

We tried other players there for years but none could fully fulfill the responsibilities of the role until Bielik came along.

Bird is a fine, fine player but even he can't replicate the full range of abilities provided by past inhabitants so we can't really expect it from anyone else at this level.

My niggling worry going into this season with how we tactically are looking to set up is I think we are shallow in certain roles we need from players.

Bird's role is one of them with only really a fit Bielik likely a good fit.

Roberts' role is another. Its notable how worse the build up play gets when Fozzy has been on the pitch instead of him. 

Out-wide we are tactically playing people high and wide and there isn't anyone in the squad past Barks and NML who can do it. 

Any of those players gets injured we likely take a decent hit in how we want. Bird/Roberts gets injured build up play gets harder. NML/Barkhuizen gets injured teams can play narrower and press higher.

The best example of all of this was the pre-season against Stevanage where because there was no Barkhuizen there was less space to build up the play and because there was no Bird or Roberts we had worse players at it/tactically mismatched players trying to do it. (All the while under heavily fatigued conditions which makes everything harder).

22 hours ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Excellent thought-provoking post as usual. 

Thompson as an advanced midfielder is an interesting option as I've only regarded him as deep lying. He was very effective recycling possession from Davies/Stearman last season & guess in theory he could apply those skills further up the park, just concerned with his physicality in more congested areas of the park. Knight protects the ball better, wins plenty of free kics plus provides a goal threat if he can get closer to Collins, also looked good as a more advanced midfielder v Bradford.

Could you see Korey Smith playing the Max Bird role in the event of an injury? Believe he played as a pivot at Swansea & seems highly mobile, comfortable on the ball & technically adept from the little I've seen of him.

Agree re Cashin for Sat, Chester looked off the pace on Sat (admittedly against very strong opposition). Cash is quicker & better on the ball in any case..selection going forward may depend on how bruising the opposition CFs are.

With Thompson I actually suspect he'd be better a bit more advanced. I think he's more a linking 8 in a 3 man midfield than he's a deep lying player like Hughes was. His energy would come to the fore more and it better utilises his ability to find pockets, play little quick 1-2s and wall passes in order to progress possession quickly. His physicality would be less exposed because he has more freedom to move in those positions as opposed to as 1 of 2 dms and is likely to get crowded into a tight area especially after one of the centre backs fluffs a pass. 

With that said I can definitely see how Knight could be the right choice. I actually think it was notable that the midfield against Leicester looked pretty good in the time between Smith going off and Forsyth/Sibley coming on. And I think this is because Knight did a lot more to get on the ball, move into space, make little runs and try to turn or play the ball progressively than Smith or even Hourihane in a lot of respects. For example an understated part of our goal is that at the very start Knight drops short and wide into space to give another option for Oduruh which in turn drags a midfielder leaving space for Bird to move into. That just wasn't really happening before.

Smith I'm wary about making comments on right now. I've not seen him play a deal before joining. In terms of what I saw though he seemed to lack awareness of where space was going to be and those around him. He just didn't seem to picking up little pockets, his positioning wasn't great and he was often suspect of just playing the way he was facing when there were better options. Now that obviously could just be rustiness but I'd lean towards that he wouldn't be able to play Bird's role right now.

Weirdly I think we lack depth in some positions that I don't think people entirely realise or at least depth in certain roles.

Right now, if Bird gets injured I think we will struggle to tactically achieve what we are trying to do and will need a major rethink. As I'm not convinced anyone else in the squad bar a fit Bielik can play that role he's doing. 

We've got no cover for the wide positions or at least no-one who is comfortable playing as an out and out winger like we are setting up. 

Left back has already been noted but I'm not super sure Fozzy will be the right kind of cover.

I've also got a concern that if McGoldrick isn't fit we will struggle to get the balance of the "midfield" 3 right, we lack an attack minded linking player. (It's a shame we lost Watson on this front)

GK is fairly obviously shallow. 

Controversially though I think we might be ok at RB for we are trying to do or I'm at least more concerned about the above. Knight, Oduroh and quite likely Smith can all tactically slot into that role.

Perhaps controversially I wouldn't ideally sign Fozzy with how we are tactically setting up. 

However I fully accept its a case of getting bodies into the squad for the season right now.

Watching it back i think we did mostly ok here. 

Main takeaway for me is that the balance of the midfield "3" didnt look right. Hourihane and Smith werent finding space as much as you would want them to do nor were they linking as well as you'd like. Hard to say how much of that is personal and how much is getting used to things tactically. 

The other takeaway we'd often break down play on the left hand side. This is related to the above and Hourihane perhaps not showing for the ball enough. But I think it could be helped by having a left footed cb there just so the ball shifts on faster out of the back.

Little disappointed by Chester on the ball because I thought he'd be a bit better than he's showed so far in that regard.

Tactically and style wise it's more of an evolution than a complete change. We still intend on building out from the back, getting on the ball and looking to have a good share of possession. Style wise it will more or less stay the same with some tactical shifts. 

Last season we primarily played a 4231 where both full backs pushed up high and wide, the 2 DMs mostly sat and acted as a double pivot and the attacking 3 came narrow infield. This was mostly to get the best out of Lawrence and perhaps Morrison in my opinion. 

This season the overarching plan seems to be no matter the starting formation or our defensive shape we want to shape up as 2-3-2-3 on the ball. With the lines being; centre backs, deep midfield, attacking midfield, forwards (with the two wide players here very split). 

So far we've had varying degrees of success which has mostly be down to personal available. (I'll focus mostly on the first halves of games).

Hertha Berlin was the game it inarguably was the most effective. More or less looking like 

       Chester Davies 

  Knight    Bird    Roberts

    Hourihane McGoldrick 

NML         Collins         Barkhuizen 

This illustrates the plan well. The plan is for that 3 of Knight, Bird and Roberts being the start of play really getting it out of the centre backs as quick as we can. They can either play forwards into the half spaces to McGoldrick or Hourihane or wide to the wingers hugging the touchline or straight into Collins. Bird is critical here because of his ability to keep possession under pressure and break the lines.

McGoldrick (so far) has been the second key. It's really important that those more advanced midfielders actively look to find space and get on the ball, which he is excellent at it in a way that's perhaps missing a little in the squad on the whole.

When it hasn't worked its been entirely down to the balance of the deep and attacking midfield not working. The best example being against Stevenage where we more looked something like (it's a little fuzzier)

        Davies Cashin 

Oduruh Hourihane Thompson

          Knight     Sibley 

NML           Collins       Forsyth

See the issue here is there is a lot more shifting from start position mostly to accommodate that left side as well as people not being suited to playing in certain places. Hourihane looked uncomfortable that deep, Thompson looked crowded on the left and couldn't use his knack for getting into space for little pop passes. Neither Knight or Sibley are particularly great at linking play. And an aging Fozzy has to move from left back to a very advanced position to provide width and get him out of the way of the build up play. 

The positives are I think if we have the 11 that played Berlin available it will be really effective but we really need to think about what we do without McGoldrick. And weirdly if Bird gets injured (and bielik isn't fit) I think it's going to be severely hampered as a system. 

So going into Oxford what do we do ?

Here is what we can probably guess

     Chester*  Davies 

    ?          Bird     Roberts 

   Hourihane/?   ?/Hourihane 

  NML      Collins   Barkhuizen

So the question is who comes into one of those "advanced" positions. Personally I'd be picking between Thompson and Knight I think. Both are energetic which I think is needed; Thompson is excellent at getting into space and is the better of the two at linking things together whereas Knight probably carries more goal threat, can carry the ball and has that knack of getting free kicks. Either way I'd do it with a base formation of a 433. Then Knight at RB if not in midfield or else Oduruh/Smith.

*Personally would swap for Cashin to have a left footer and I think Cashin might be better on the ball.

If McGoldrick is fit:

Wildsmith

Knight Davies Cashin Roberts

Hourihane  Bird

         NML   McGoldrick Barkhuizen

Collins

What I'd pick if he isn't: 

Wildsmith

Odoruh Davies Cashin Roberts

Bird

     Knight   Hourihane

        NML       Collins     Barkhuizen

What I think Rosenior will actually do:

Wildsmith

Knight Chester Davies Roberts

Smith     Bird

    NML    Hourihane   Barkhuizen 

Collins

With maybe a chance of Odoruh playing RB, Knight to 10, Hourihane back to DM and Smith on the bench.  

14 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Would’ve preferred to see something a bit more “round pegs in round holes” and offensive, like:

Wildsmith

Oduroh Davies Cashin Forsyth

Knight Bird Hourihane

Mendez-Laing Collins Barkuizen

Nevertheless, it’ll be good to see Smith play for the first time. Interested to see what he brings to that side.

I agree about the front 6. That's probably what I'd do with what is available. However I'd much rather play Roberts over Fozzy with how we are setting and in principle I don't hate the idea of trying Knight at RB.

24 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

Midfielder Knight still at right back. Centreback Roberts at left back. McGoldrick out with "a niggle". Young Robinson on the bench. No Amadou Diallo. Midfield looks pretty defensive. Only Sibbo and Stretton as attacking options off the bench. Guessing everyone on the bench will get a run out at some point.

I've got zero issue with Roberts playing left back. He doesn't look out of position even a little bit and he looks really good on the ball.

Knight at RB I can see the thinking. We've not got a RB on the books aside from Odurah, we are playing our fullbacks almost like auxiliary midfielders and we are going into a division were we'd expect to dominate on the ball. Basically Knight there is "cheating" a little and making use of what we have.

Is it the best use of Knight's talents? Yes and no. He doesn't really fit tactically with we are trying to do as he's not a 10, nor a deep lying midfielder or an out and out winger. However he's very suited for that style of "cheaty" right back.

I'd agree that on the face of it it's a little too defensive but Smith needs minutes and perhaps Rosenior felt like he needed to see Hourihane play 10.

This move makes sense from a couple different angles. 

1) It's a sign to the rest of the academy players.

2) It encourages Bird to stay with us. Important because he's arguably going to be our most important player next year.

3) He's been touted as a future captain for a while 

47 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

I agree. I thought Glover showed more in the Bradford game than Diallo did last night, although possibly down to the whole team performing / not performing. Glover also seemed comfortable on the left which is the weaker side IMO. NML a clear winner for the starting spot on the right at the moment, but Barkhuizen and Knight are also better on that side than the left.

I agree with all of that.

NML just looks like he's got the ability to change a game and teams really have to be wary of him. And I'm not sure the same can be said about Barkhuizen or Knight who both are a bit more straight forward to defend against.

1 minute ago, sage said:

Looking quite lightweight tonight. Mentioned it before but there is a massive area in front of our CBs devoid of midfielders 

I imagine because it's not really Hourihane's or Thompson's game particularly. Underlines that Bird is kinda critical going into the season as it stands.

5 minutes ago, rammieib said:

Thompson struggling here for me a lot. 

I don't think that's entirely surprising, him and Hourihane feels a bit mismatched.

30 minutes ago, jono said:

Yes me too but if he’s good enough he should be able to adapt and learn 

With how we positionally play with our wide players right now, I don't think he can really it just won't suit his skillset.

5 minutes ago, Rampant said:

Sibley is a #10 for me or a CM if needs be. Not sure he's likely to be effective in any other role.

Oh I agree but I'm not convinced that's where we will see him.

5 minutes ago, Rampant said:

4-2-3-1 is it?

Sibley in the #10 role with NML & Knight wide. Hourihane & Thompson as a two in the centre.

I disagree with it but I think it's highly likely Knight at 10 and sibley wide left.

Doesn't suit either of them particularly I don't think.

6 hours ago, jono said:

Can’t be sure about Tommo but Cashin will get plenty of starts. It may be a rotation with Chester but he’ll be there and regularly. No doubts at all. 

I think Tommo is probably earmarked as one of 4 players for the 2 DM spots (i dont think Bielik is particularly in the planning). And as such given how many games we will need to play this season I suspect he will start a decent amount.

2 hours ago, Ambitious said:

Hourihane, he’s a player that will be in the middle of everything we try to do and he’s a culture setting player that we needed in this rebuild.

Interesting comment, how do you mean ? This in terms of his attitude?