Match Thread: Leyton Orient (h)

[Tamworthram]

37 minutes ago, InstaRam said:

After all, unlike you, I have presented some kind of objective assessment in which the mistakes are included as a part in any case. You are welcome to present evidence for your opinion that Bradley would not be more likely to make mistakes. Besides that, the fact that he can't handle playing in a back four is another indication. He needs Cashin and Nelson on each side of him so they can carry him. I believe that Bradley has committed more gross mistakes than Cashin and Nelson this season, and after all, he has spent a significant amount of time on the bench from which he has not had the chance to make mistakes. When Bradley is put in a man-on-man situation with a striker or forced to do something more advanced with the ball than pass a few yards to Cashin, I feel like anything can happen. Similarly, when he stands and wrestles with someone or can't win a header because, according to the coach, he had a cold the week before. 

And Northampton away was not that long ago either. 

 

LOL. I'm not sure how your argument is more objective than mine unless you're referring to the somewhat marginal assessments you provided. Those assessments are also, presumably, based on overall performance and not necessarily the likelihood of him making blunders. As I said earlier, if Nelson is assessed at only 0.4 better than Bradley then it's a very fine margin between hero and zero.

I don't have any evidence that he is less likely to make mistakes than the other players, the same as you don't have "evidence" that he will.

I totally accept that you don't rate him or that he's not the upgrade on Davies you were hoping for. I just think the calamity label attached is uncalled for. 

[Crewton]

Fair play to the Orient fans BTW. Came in good numbers for a (for them) nothing game, 2-0 down by half-time and their team hardly venturing over the halfway line, but they stayed the courser and made a noise, giving some witty responses to the South Stand. Hope they do well next season.

[1of4]

A great team performance which resulted with a win and three important points, compounded by the results elsewhere. 

A number of posters have stated Orient were poor. But how much was down to our own performance?

If we had come out with the wrong mindset, yesterday's result could have easily gone the same way as the Northampton or Wycombe game.

Just hope, for the sake of my sanity, it will be yesterday's team that turns up for the games against Cambridge and Carlisle and not the one that came out of the tunnels at Northampton and Wycombe.

[ram59]

6 hours ago, admira said:

SW but previous years I’ve been in the south so perhaps that’s why. 

I’m old enough to remember 75, 86, 87, 96 and 07 though and just don’t feel this season has the same intensity somehow. Just my opinion, doesn’t mean I’m not loving it though. 😊

Those seasons all had one thing in common, a lack of widespread social media.

The moaners and the WUMs never had a platform in those years beyond their own small social circle.

I'm sure that I would have been a lot happier this season, if I hadn't constantly reading some of the negative rubbish on here. But I like to read and write about the Rams with a vast majority of the fans on here and so put up with it. My way of combating it, is to have a few days away from the forum after a defeat or particularly poor display.

[G STAR RAM]

2 hours ago, IslandExile said:

A big centre half scoring twice from corners and putting in a creditable display against a poor offensive team with nothing to play for does not necessarily make Sonny Bradley a good choice for our team.

I think a bigger factor was that it allowed Warne to play his preferred 3-5-2, so freeing up wing backs who cannot be classed as full backs.

So, your euphoria aside - which we all share - please look objectively at the reasoning behind the discussion. Thanks.

Ah so it was down to Leyton Orient being poor then. Thought it might be.

There was literally no objectivity in the pre match posts. Read them and you will see that. Thanks.

[Tamworthram]

1 hour ago, InstaRam said:

After all, unlike you, I have presented some kind of objective assessment in which the mistakes are included as a part in any case. You are welcome to present evidence for your opinion that Bradley would not be more likely to make mistakes. Besides that, the fact that he can't handle playing in a back four is another indication. He needs Cashin and Nelson on each side of him so they can carry him. I believe that Bradley has committed more gross mistakes than Cashin and Nelson this season, and after all, he has spent a significant amount of time on the bench from which he has not had the chance to make mistakes. When Bradley is put in a man-on-man situation with a striker or forced to do something more advanced with the ball than pass a few yards to Cashin, I feel like anything can happen. Similarly, when he stands and wrestles with someone or can't win a header because, according to the coach, he had a cold the week before. 

And Northampton away was not that long ago either. 

 

To clarify, what is your objective case to support your assertion that he is still worthy of the title calamity Bradley?

Not whether he is as good as Nelson or Cashin (I don’t think he is and I have never said he is).

Not based on opinions which, by definition, are subjective not objective.
 

Not on his record for the whole season. I said right at the start “since he’s put those early blunders behind him”.

Not that he is more likely to make a mistake than Cashin or Nelson (although this is a subjective opinion in itself but I think is true) but that he’s more likely to such an extent to justify the label calamity.

I also think he has made more mistakes (per game time) than either Cashin and Nelson (although I suspect neither of us have the actual stats). Out of the three, he would be a distant third in my pecking order simply because he isn’t such a good footballer and makes mistakes (as all footballers do) but not enough now to justify such name calling.

 

[Bris Vegas]

8 hours ago, Srg said:

Arsenal have scored the most in the premier league this season. Big, physical Arsenal. 

I mean, I did write that it applies outside the PL, as with all the riches in the world the best players at the likes of City, Liverpool and Arsenal have technical ability + physicality in abundance.

But sure, you go ahead and write a snarky ‘got you’ comment. 🤷‍♂️

Edited April 14 by Bris Vegas

[IslandExile]

58 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Ah so it was down to Leyton Orient being poor then. Thought it might be.

There was literally no objectivity in the pre match posts. Read them and you will see that. Thanks.

I didn't say that either. You are not reading posts but working towards your own preconceived ideas.

Your post was criticising those of us who aren't convinced by Sonny Bradley's quality. 

I was merely saying that the fact that he scored two goals from corners does not make him a good enough defender for our club.

[FlyBritishMidland]

3 hours ago, IslandExile said:

A big centre half scoring twice from corners and putting in a creditable display against a poor offensive team with nothing to play for does not necessarily make Sonny Bradley a good choice for our team.

I think a bigger factor was that it allowed Warne to play his preferred 3-5-2, so freeing up wing backs who cannot be classed as full backs.

So, your euphoria aside - which we all share - please look objectively at the reasoning behind the discussion. Thanks.

I think that’s a bit harsh.  We’re the only team to do the double them (I think) beating them 3-0 in both games.  They’ve beaten Portsmouth 3-0 away, Bolton, Oxford and only lost 1-0 to Lincoln when they were scoring for fun.

[IslandExile]

1 minute ago, FlyBritishMidland said:

I think that’s a bit harsh.  We’re the only team to do the double them (I think) beating them 3-0 in both games.  They’ve beaten Portsmouth 3-0 away, Bolton, Oxford and only lost 1-0 to Lincoln when they were scoring for fun.

Ok, fair enough. 

I wasn't so much digging at Orient but trying to make the point that, just because Bradley scored twice, didn't make him a good enough defender for Derby County.

[G STAR RAM]

14 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

I didn't say that either. You are not reading posts but working towards your own preconceived ideas.

Your post was criticising those of us who aren't convinced by Sonny Bradley's quality. 

I was merely saying that the fact that he scored two goals from corners does not make him a good enough defender for our club.

My post was criticising 'supporters' for slating the team, players and the manager before a ball had been kicked.

Not sure it is me with the preconceived ideas.

[IslandExile]

24 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

My post was criticising 'supporters' for slating the team, players and the manager before a ball had been kicked.

Some of us were expressing the view that Sonny Bradley does not warrant a place in the team. That is vastly different than "slating the team". Moreover, we can hold an opinion about players before any particular game kicks off. 

You were not talking about "general slating" of the team; you were gloating that, one individual, Bradley had scored twice despite the views held by others about the quality of his defensive play.

EDIT

Gone back to your original point. I apologise.... You weren't just talking about Bradley. 

However, my point remains, people are entitled to opinions about individual players and team selections before a game. That is very different to "slating the team"

Edited April 14 by IslandExile
Added more

[Bessie1]

2 hours ago, Crewton said:

Fair play to the Orient fans BTW. Came in good numbers for a (for them) nothing game, 2-0 down by half-time and their team hardly venturing over the halfway line, but they stayed the courser and made a noise, giving some witty responses to the South Stand. Hope they do well next season.

“Champions of League 2, you’ll never sing that” I think it was.  Great stuff, really witty - plenty in South Stand applauded.

[Chopper]

3 set piece goals and a clean sheet for our defenders, that'll do me.

Bradley did have a ropey start with us, suffering a bit when Hourihane was made Captain, we went to a four and got results with him out of the team. If fit Nelson and Cash (sounds like they should be crimefighters, or lawyers) are the defensive 2, that's obvious. When he came back a little while back I saw promise from him, and I saw the potential for a dominant Centre Half in the middle of a 3, then he lost his head and got himself banned. I'm not too angry about that, it happens, but I can also understand the frustration. He is the middle of a back three, in Derby terms: McGrath, Stimac, Carbonari, heck even West when he wasn't off building churches. Dominant, intelligent, reads the game being 3 moves ahead of everyone else, a real leader, no rushes of blood. Even equating for the L1ness of our situation, expectations for that position might lay heavy, at least amongst us lot - although I might be projecting a bit.

If we stay down, with a good preseason he might help us dominate next year, if we go up ... I'd want to see who else is out there anyway, but I have a feeling we might not have to write him off next season, in a 3 alongside Rooney, Cash, Nelson and 1 more (a big 'un).

[G STAR RAM]

17 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

Some of us were expressing the view that Sonny Bradley does not warrant a place in the team. That is vastly different than "slating the team". Moreover, we can hold an opinion about players before any particular game kicks off. 

You were not talking about "general slating" of the team; you were gloating that, one individual, Bradley had scored twice despite the views held by others about the quality of his defensive play.

EDIT

Gone back to your original point. I apologise.... You weren't just talking about Bradley. 

However, my point remains, people are entitled to opinions about individual players and team selections before a game. That is very different to "slating the team"

Correct and I'm entitled to my opinion about people jumping on the manager and individuals before a ball has been kicked, that's what a forum is about isn't it?

I certainly wasn't gloating about anything, I don't particularly like Bradley. In terms of warranting a place in the team, that is for the manager to judge and, from my point of view, it looks like he made the right call yesterday. 

[IslandExile]

2 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Correct and I'm entitled to my opinion about people jumping on the manager and individuals before a ball has been kicked, that's what a forum is about isn't it?

I certainly wasn't gloating about anything, I don't particularly like Bradley. In terms of warranting a place in the team, that is for the manager to judge and, from my point of view, it looks like he made the right call yesterday. 

But you've answered yourself there....a forum is all about people expressing their opinion. So, why can't people express opinions about players or team selections without it being called "slating the team"?

[G STAR RAM]

12 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

But you've answered yourself there....a forum is all about people expressing their opinion. So, why can't people express opinions about players or team selections without it being called "slating the team"?

You've seen all of the posts that I've quoted.

They weren't constructive. 

They weren't an analysis of the team selection.

Just the usual negative claptrap from the usual suspects.

 

[DavesaRam]

1 hour ago, Bessie1 said:

“Champions of League 2, you’ll never sing that” I think it was.  Great stuff, really witty - plenty in South Stand applauded.

It was actually “National League Champions - you’ll never sing that!”. And yes it was really witty!

[Crewton]

42 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

But you've answered yourself there....a forum is all about people expressing their opinion. So, why can't people express opinions about players or team selections without it being called "slating the team"?

Yep, and if that opinion is something like "that line-up alone is a sackable offence", they deserve to have the p*** ripped out of them when it blows up in their faces, no?

[IslandExile]

1 minute ago, Crewton said:

Yep, and if that opinion is something like "that line-up alone is a sackable offence", they deserve to have the p*** ripped out of them when it blows up in their faces, no?

Hopefully you don't think I made that comment. 

I did make animated gif jokes about the inclusion of Sonny Bradley, who I'm afraid to say I do not rate as a defender, despite his two goals yesterday.

I'm arguing that I am entitled to my opinion on Bradley, regardless of yesterday, and that it should not be classified as "slating the team".