Match Thread: vs Port Vale (H)

[Srg]

Just now, angieram said:

The Ward v Nyambe debate is a bit superfluous while Nyambe is injured, but for me it's about Warne making the right choices.

In games where we need to be on the offensive then Ward is perfect. Backs against the wall, I'd want Nyambe there every time. 

Don't think there’s much debate. If it’s a back 4, it’s Nyambe. Ideally, in a back 3, you get rid of Bradley and put Nyambe as part of the 3. 

[Caerphilly Ram]

Nice 8 mins watching this back with a coffee this morning 

[duncanjwitham]

32 minutes ago, angieram said:

The Ward v Nyambe debate is a bit superfluous while Nyambe is injured, but for me it's about Warne making the right choices.

In games where we need to be on the offensive then Ward is perfect. Backs against the wall, I'd want Nyambe there every time. 

The thing is, you can't afford to play Nyambe as a wingback (or Elder for that matter), no matter the circumstances, because in a 352, your wingbacks *have* to be a major part of your attack.  If you have any intention of being a top team, you simply cannot go into games with your primary wide players not really wanting to cross the halfway line, and just hoping that NML does some magic or you score from a set piece or something.

The big issue is that despite 3 transfer windows and umpteen signings, we still don't have a single actual wingback.  It's a highly specialised position, where you *need* to be able to contribute offensively and defensively.  We seem to have a ragtag bunch of fullbacks and wingers that can do half the job.

[FlyBritishMidland]

14 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

You're not counting the two clear chances that Garrity missed, one header just wide, one shot just wide? He might have missed another with a bit of head tennis off Bradley too. 

But we deserved to win, just not as easy as it looked.

Fair points.  More so the first chance as that was at the start of the 2nd half when the score was 2-0.  The 2nd one was right at the end when the game was effectively over.  However, you’re ignoring Barkhuizen’s chance early in the 1st half that would have made it 2-0 after about 15mins and the one where Bird and Waghorn (I think) got in each others way.

We deserved to win, and it could have been a lot easier.

[Caerphilly Ram]

7 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

The thing is, you can't afford to play Nyambe as a wingback (or Elder for that matter), no matter the circumstances, because in a 352, your wingbacks *have* to be a major part of your attack.  If you have any intention of being a top team, you simply cannot go into games with your primary wide players not really wanting to cross the halfway line, and just hoping that NML does some magic or you score from a set piece or something.

The big issue is that despite 3 transfer windows and umpteen signings, we still don't have a single actual wingback.  It's a highly specialised position, where you *need* to be able to contribute offensively and defensively.  We seem to have a ragtag bunch of fullbacks and wingers that can do half the job.

Ward is a wing back isn’t he? I thought that was where he played for Posh, contributing 6 goals and 10 assists from that position last season, and 5 goals with 13 assists in the 20/21 season. He only had 3 assists in their championship season in between though. 
And didn’t Wilson played as a wing back for Forest Green?

Edited March 3 by Caerphilly Ram

[duncanjwitham]

11 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

Ward is a wing back isn’t he? I thought that was where he played for Posh, contributing 6 goals and 10 assists from that position last season, and 5 goals with 13 assists in the 20/21 season. He only had 3 assists in their championship season in between though. 
And didn’t Wilson played as a wing back for Forest Green?

From what the Peterborough fans said when we signed him, he mostly played as a winger for them, and when he did play at wingback he wasn't as good.  It doesn't really matter though where he played for them though - he's clearly not good enough defensively to play wingback IMO.  And it's the same with Wilson - AFAIK he did play there for them, but he's not good enough defensively to play wingback every week for a team that wants to be getting promoted from this league.  It's like describing Louis Sibley as a wingback by trade because he's played there a bunch of times for us - he clearly isn't one either.  NML and Barkhuizen both played as wingbacks at their previous clubs  - again they clearly aren't wingbacks.

If you want to play wingbacks, you *have* to have players that can play that position properly - it's the most important part of that setup - and if you don't have them you are going to get killed on one side of the game or the other (defensively or offensively).  There will be games where you can get away with it (like yesterday), but you can't get away with it every game if you want to be winning things.

[Caerphilly Ram]

20 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

From what the Peterborough fans said when we signed him, he mostly played as a winger for them, and when he did play at wingback he wasn't as good.  It doesn't really matter though where he played for them though - he's clearly not good enough defensively to play wingback IMO.  And it's the same with Wilson - AFAIK he did play there for them, but he's not good enough defensively to play wingback every week for a team that wants to be getting promoted from this league.  It's like describing Louis Sibley as a wingback by trade because he's played there a bunch of times for us - he clearly isn't one either.  NML and Barkhuizen both played as wingbacks at their previous clubs  - again they clearly aren't wingbacks.

If you want to play wingbacks, you *have* to have players that can play that position properly - it's the most important part of that setup - and if you don't have them you are going to get killed on one side of the game or the other (defensively or offensively).  There will be games where you can get away with it (like yesterday), but you can't get away with it every game if you want to be winning things.

Opinions are opinions, fair enough you’ve got yours. You say that Ward isn’t a wingback or that he wasn’t during his time there but Posh as a club and their local press referred to him as a wing back and he played games there for them in a team that did achieve promotion from this league.

Wilson played predominantly as a wingback for FGR in their promotion season from league 2 before joining Bristol City.
 

If your opinion is that both Ward and Wilson aren’t good enough to be wing backs for us then you’re entitled to that, but let’s not reinvent history when both of them have proved they can do the job in that role for teams chasing promotion.

 

Edited March 3 by Caerphilly Ram

[duncanjwitham]

6 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

Opinions are opinions, fair enough you’ve got yours. You say that Ward isn’t a wingback or that he wasn’t during his time there but Posh as a club and their local press referred to him as a wing back and he played games there for them. Wilson played predominantly as a wingback for FGR in their promotion season before joining Bristol City.
 

If your opinion is that both Ward and Wilson aren’t good enough to be wing backs for us then you’re entitled to that, but let’s not reinvent history when both of them have proved they can do the job in that role.

I'm saying it doesn't matter if previous clubs played them there or not - plenty of players get played out of position, it doesn't magically make them able to play it.  Neither of them are good enough defensively to play there every week for us IMO.

[Caerphilly Ram]

12 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

I'm saying it doesn't matter if previous clubs played them there or not - plenty of players get played out of position, it doesn't magically make them able to play it.  Neither of them are good enough defensively to play there every week for us IMO.

Fair enough. They are however what we’ve got, so Wilson and Ward as wing backs down the right and Sibley or Foz/Elder down the left is what I’m expecting to see during the run in if we play a back 3. If it’s a back four then it’ll likely be the more defensively robust options of Forsyth and Nyambe if and when they’re both fit. 
 

EDIT - also, your original post said we “haven’t signed any wingbacks, after 3 windows and umpteen signings”. I was just pointing out we had based on the evidence, which means where they played for their previous clubs is relevant to my point. I don’t see that your opinion of their ability to play wingback well trumps the actual history of them playing multiple games there for other clubs. 

Edited March 3 by Caerphilly Ram
Added thoughts

[Comrade 86]

16 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

You're not counting the two clear chances that Garrity missed, one header just wide, one shot just wide? He might have missed another with a bit of head tennis off Bradley too. 

But we deserved to win, just not as easy as it looked.

[duncanjwitham]

1 minute ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

Fair enough. They are however what we’ve got, so Wilson and Ward as wing backs down the right and Sibley or Foz/Elder down the left is what I’m expecting to see during the run in if we play a back 3. If it’s a back four then it’ll likely be the more defensively robust options of Forsyth and Nyambe if and when they’re both fit. 

That's the key bit though.  None of them are really suited to playing wingback, or if you don't want to go that far, I think they're definitely all better as outright wingers or fullbacks.  The whole point of 352 is basically declaring that you think your 2 wingbacks are sufficiently good to cover for 2 players jobs, so you can get overloads somewhere else in the team.  If those players aren't good enough to cover 2 players jobs, then you simply shouldn't be playing 352.

[Caerphilly Ram]

1 minute ago, duncanjwitham said:

That's the key bit though.  None of them are really suited to playing wingback, or if you don't want to go that far, I think they're definitely all better as outright wingers or fullbacks.  The whole point of 352 is basically declaring that you think your 2 wingbacks are sufficiently good to cover for 2 players jobs, so you can get overloads somewhere else in the team.  If those players aren't good enough to cover 2 players jobs, then you simply shouldn't be playing 352.

In my view Ward and Wilson clearly are both capable of playing wing back. Both aren’t as good defensively as Nyambe, which they’ve shown at times this season and have been points of discussion across the forum. Both seem good going forward so offer more of an attacking threat than Nyambe but not as much as Mendez-Laing.

It’s clear we’ve got different opinions on it so I’ll leave it there. Whatever the formation and players used for the rest of the season let’s see how they fare. 

[BramcoteRam84]

6 hours ago, baiano27 said:

There was nothing wrong with their keeper. This is a loophole in the rules that needs fixing. As its the only position that doesnt require the player to stay off the field for 30 seconds he went down so Darren Moore could make tactical changes. Their outfield players all sprinted off to the half way line immediately when the the ref stopped play and surprise surprise they are much better for the next 10 minutes.

 

Yes I was being polite, it was beyond gamesmanship at a point we were on top and while it didn’t affect the result it had a material effect in changing the course of the game for about 15-20 mins 

[Rich3478]

2 hours ago, Addingham Ram said:

I've long thought that perhaps the management team should be based away from the touchline, like you sometimes see in Rugby League (I think).

It would stop a lot of the current shenanigans involving managers and indeed the fourth official.

Surely a manager / head coach would also benefit from a decent view up in the stands somewhere.

Yeah I don’t get the fourth official role, it’s like they’re there to be moaned at. 

[MadAmster]

Here's a post I put in DCFC 1884 on FB in reply to My mate Mike's post...


Ramstv for me, Mike, here in the Nahe Valley in Germany doing a little wine sampling. When Gayle puts the 3-0 away you'll likely hear me cheering 

Not a bad guess. It was 3-0 and Gayle did score but it was the second.

Decent performance overall. I don't recall JW having to make a save and their stat of 0 shots on target verifies my recollection.

Sibley's first was a stroke of genius 😉 , I mean, who else would have had the audacity to play a cannon off a defender and the keeper?  Rightfully credited to him IMO as it was heading inside the right hand post. Good pass from Ward for the ball. 

Gayle's was an excellent header from a well placed cross from Adams.

Sibs 2nd was put away with venom from another good cross from Ward who had, IMO, far and away his best game in a Derby shirt.

I thought the ref was fair and even handed, let the game flow and pulled players up when necessary.

Hopefully this improved performance will signal a return to better days and the end of the D&G of successive 2-1 defeats having gone 1 up.

Good opening 25, after which they slowly got back into it and enjoyed a fair amount of possession and territorial advantage without looking dangerous in the first half. 2nd half they had a header which went just wide, the same player also had a shot which was yards wide. Apparently, they also had a 3rd shot, I must have blinked 

Brizzle Rovers away next. Here's hoping we keep Coldplay quiet. Then it's time for revenge against Reading who do seem to get more good results against us than they should and then the biggy at home to Bolton. I shall be at the latter 2. Not seen us lose yet, this season. 4 wins and a draw. Looking forward to 6 and 1 

[Animal is a Ram]

 

[Crewton]

Just now, Animal is a Ram said:

 

Oh God, no - Jedward at number 1 again 😱

[Stive Pesley]

https://twitter.com/BBCDerbySport/status/1765035169226904005

[Srg]

18 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

https://twitter.com/BBCDerbySport/status/1765035169226904005

Bit of a misleading tweet, to be honest. It would be ruled an own goal as the initial shot was going wide, not purely because of the deflection.

[Comrade 86]

1 hour ago, Stive Pesley said:

https://twitter.com/BBCDerbySport/status/1765035169226904005

@mozza is Gayle 1st scorer then. I'm only asking as it's the 1st time in forever I've got the score and FRGS right 😂