Barnsley FC v Derby - Match Day Thread

[Tamworthram]

4 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

To stop our Rotherhamification. A 7th and 6th place finish will have been failure. He will only buy further players who are happy to partake in kick and rush.

It’s my opinion. No more. I am going to spend my day usefully elsewhere now. I will leave you to debate what constitutes contractual success.

Don’t stress on my account. I’ve also got better things to do today 😀

[Archied]

Thought we had shelved the warne out thread🤷‍♂️

[Tamworthram]

6 minutes ago, angieram said:

Does every matchday thread when we don't win have to deteriorate into the same tired debate about Warne? There's a thread for that.

Very good shout. I know I’ve contributed, for which I apologise, but only in response to others. 

[Crewton]

1 hour ago, IlsonDerby said:

We are the 3rd best team based on points per game. 

Unless we have another COVID-type lockdown, promotion won't be decided on PPG until the end of the season.

[Crewton]

1 hour ago, Chester40 said:

The two things that annoyed me most during the game were :

Ball was threaded to Hourihane in the middle of the pitch, if he'd turned he would have had room to run into. Instead he just passed it 20 yards backwards to a defender who under pressure passes it back to the keeper.

Bird collects the ball which has been cleared, Derby are on top,  he is facing the goal with a few yards to run into..he turns away and tries to slide a pass out wide that trickles out for a throw in.

They are our 'ball players' and seemed happy to leave the 'match winning' to our 'skillful' players- Wilson, NML, Barks..who all struggled to do that yesterday.

Defence largely looked solid. Adams worked his socks off ...really felt as a pair they contributed too little.  I know a lot will say its all down to Warne telling them to how to play but we just didn't look after the ball in midfield at all.

Yep, those two incidents had me pulling my hair out. I doubt though that, in those positions, Warne's advice to them would be to do what they did, because he's often said he wants players to be brave.

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

14 minutes ago, Archied said:

Thought we had shelved the warne out thread🤷‍♂️

No,two losses in 20 is clearly unacceptable and requires an urgent revisit.

[LeedsCityRam]

30 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

Of course he would consider it a failure, of course he admitted he failed. What do you expect him to feel or say? 
 

However, my points are 1) assuming we don’t go up this year then the nature of our “failure” needs to be considered (which chairman in their right mind would sack the manager for finishing 3rd for example?) and 2) I suspect his remit is to get us promoted but not specifically within the first two years (which manager in their right minds, given a four year contract, would resign after two years if they narrowly missed out?).

”Failure” is a powerful word. If we don’t get promoted then PW will have “failed” against his personal hopes and expectations, so he’d obviously be disappointed, but he may not have “failed” against his chairman’s medium term expectations or the expectations laid out to him upon appointment.

You are solely looking at the results angle & everything about Paul Warne is pure short term focus leaving little else to justify his tenure here. What you're overlooking is his long term unsuitability & that also has to be factored into conversations about whether he stays or not. The quality of football is poor & a sizeable section of the fanbase do not enjoy watching it (with potential knock on effect for future PP crowd numbers), he doesn't particularly improve players, there is a misalignment with Academy pathway (refusing to even use EFL Trophy matches to give youngsters game time) & preferred transfer strategy in order for the club to achieve sustainability. Warne wants the likes of Sonny Bradley & Conor Washington to secure his promotion (and Michael Smith given half a chance)...the club will struggle to be sustainable with these types of signings. We brought in Mark Thomas last year to identify cheap, develop & sell high...Warne is not suited to this model.

Clowes appointed Warne to get us a quick promotion & that was the expectation of everyone when he was appointed (and why Rosenior was let go). To take your most extreme hypothetical scenario, as the pure remit for Warne being here is a short term focus of promotion, then defeat at Wembley would still be complete failure with no guarantee of promotion the next year & need to continue down the highly paid experienced pro with no resale value route that Warne prefers. I suspect Clowes will be considering how much longer he can tolerate that misalignment with the long term DCFC strategy come May should we faill to go up.

[Returning ram]

16 minutes ago, angieram said:

Does every matchday thread when we don't win have to deteriorate into the same tired debate about Warne? There's a thread for that.

Thought the atmosphere was pretty good yesterday, obviously a win would have been ideal however I think the majority have come to accept we are going to lose some along the way. 

Coming on here though after a loss is predictable and boring, I can accept debate and opinions however in the main it seems to be the same posters who are just waiting to jump all over PW. It's a forum though, they are entitled as much as anyone else and fair enough, probably the answer for me is to just not read a match day thread, because I think as long as PW is in charge, it will continue.

Still think we will go up in autos and looking forward to enjoying the rest of the season, yesterday is what football is all about, haven't got to as many away days as I'd hoped this season 😊

[Jourdan]

This was always marked down as one of our toughest games remaining and so it proved.

We have dug in and won some very tough away games recently where others have stumbled, so we were probably due a fall and again, the margins were fine.

There is no shame in a narrow loss against a promotion rival. Barnsley, Bolton and Peterborough will push us all of the way and each game left will feel like a cup final as the pendulum swings.

The important thing really is to just get back on the horse as quickly as possible. One loss isn’t fatal to our hopes if we bounce back quickly. Two home wins and a few Gayle goals this week and the belief will be right back.

[TaahnRam]

1 hour ago, Tamworthram said:

Is his remit to get us promoted within 2 years? I doubt it.

I reckon his remit is aligned to DC’s ambitions - get us promoted and become an established Championship team within 5 years. I doubt there was any deadline on when promotion needs to be achieved but, if there was, I wouldn’t think it was the first two years given we would have restricted by the agreed business plan in all that time.

”Established Championship team” is open to interpretation but I think it probably means, at a minimum, avoid relegation or maybe avoid a serious battle against relegation. So, on that basis, if we were promoted after three seasons and were comfortable in the final season of Warne’s contract, he would have achieved DC’s short term objectives. 
 

Personally, I really don’t see it as black and white as no promotion = the sack. It depends entirely on the nature of our failure to go up this year. At one extreme, if we miss out on 2nd place on goal difference and narrowly lose the play off final then there is no way he would be sacked. Even if we finish as low as 6th and fail to make it through the play offs I wouldn’t be sacking him. 

Agree with the first part here, strong finish to the season but fail to go up and he stays. If we end up finishing 5th,6th that would represent a huge drop off in form which if it ends with the same result would need to lead to huge questions asked given last seasons capitulation too. 

[Leicester Ram]

1 hour ago, Tamworthram said:

I was 100% with you until your final paragraph. Surely the fans acceptance or rejection of “Warneball” will be largely influenced by the results we are achieving. Assuming we’re still in league one, if it ain’t pretty again next season but we’re grinding out the results (meaning we’re very much in the mix) I don’t think the fans complaints will be that vocal (not at the games anyway). Even if we’re doing well (in terms of results) but the fans at the games are vocal in their complaints about the style of football, do you think he’d be sacked?

More saying that if there’s an overwhelming majority of fans calling to sack Warne if we don’t go up this year, you start to wonder about losing season ticket renewals and attendances dropping - which is part of our advantage in this division 

I expect it would get pretty toxic online if we lost in the playoffs

[angieram]

10 minutes ago, Returning ram said:

Thought the atmosphere was pretty good yesterday, obviously a win would have been ideal however I think the majority have come to accept we are going to lose some along the way. 

Coming on here though after a loss is predictable and boring, I can accept debate and opinions however in the main it seems to be the same posters who are just waiting to jump all over PW. It's a forum though, they are entitled as much as anyone else and fair enough, probably the answer for me is to just not read a match day thread, because I think as long as PW is in charge, it will continue.

Still think we will go up in autos and looking forward to enjoying the rest of the season, yesterday is what football is all about, haven't got to as many away days as I'd hoped this season 😊

Well,like you, I attend most games. I quite like to hear the little snippets about people's experiences at the game, what they thought of the referee, that chance for Gayle at the end ( was it really a chance? It hasn't had a mention on here). 

Why should I avoid this thread?  Mods need to do their job and delete all the off-topic stuff or move it to the Warne thread, which I can easily avoid.

[MaltRam]

11 hours ago, jono said:

I think that’s the point when everyone gets pro or anti Warne. .. The poor passes, the missed opportunities. Is that really a lousy manager or coaching ethic ? Or is it just ability mixed with a rough day 

Just third division football, IMO.

[TomTom92]

Feel talking about Warne is a bit of a pointless exercise yet I’ve been drawn in to day my bit. 
 
Failure to go up and he needs to go. I’m sure if we had him as manager for the next 10 seasons come what may, he’d get us up eventually. But next season will be a bag of snakes in league 1, so it could be two more seasons before we go up. 
 
Think a revamp is required if we don’t go up. Clearly we aren’t going to settle for win at any cost football, we want to be entertained as well. 
 
If Warne gets us up then fair play to him. Think the underdog tag would suit us fine for the first couple of years back in the championship.

[Tyler Durden]

23 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Clowes appointed Warne to get us a quick promotion & that was the expectation of everyone when he was appointed (and why Rosenior was let go). To take your most extreme hypothetical scenario, as the pure remit for Warne being here is a short term focus of promotion, then defeat at Wembley would still be complete failure with no guarantee of promotion the next year & need to continue down the highly paid experienced pro with no resale value route that Warne prefers. I suspect Clowes will be considering how much longer he can tolerate that misalignment with the long term DCFC strategy come May should we faill to go up.

Had to do a RoyMac and ignore the majority of your post and focus on one minutiae.....

Not sure on the assertion in bold, I certainly didn't expect us to get promoted the first season Warne was in charge so that kind of makes what you've said invalid (depends what your interpretation of "quick" is I guess)

Did Clowes also say the same thing?

Edited February 25 by Tyler Durden

[Comrade 86]

[Jimbo Ram]

7 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Had to do a RoyMac and ignore the majority of your post and focus on one minutiae.....

Not sure on the assertion in bold, I certainly didn't expect us to get promoted the first season Warne was in charge so that kind of makes what you've said invalid (depends what your interpretation of "quick" is I guess)

Did Clowes also say the same thing?

Warne saw last season as a failure. If we don’t go up this season I think he will certainly see it the same way. I think he is a pretty decent guy and will take the decision himself to go if we don’t go up.

[Tamworthram]

Back on thread. I always look forward to Barnsley away. A chance to spend time with relatives in the morning and always a good following. Shame it’s often spoilt by the result. Too many players were off their game yesterday not all of which can be put down to tactics and formation.

As others have said, we weren’t great but there wasn’t a great deal between the two teams. Whilst we wouldn’t go into the games with a great deal of confidence, there’s no reason to fear Barnsley if we happen to come up against them in the play offs. 
 

I had this down as a defeat pre game but I also have us down for winning our next two at home. Fingers crossed.

[NIGHTMARE]

Decent atmosphere again in Oakwell, you always come in numbers, and make a racket, big respect for that, thanks for the three points. 

[Returning ram]

20 minutes ago, angieram said:

Well,like you, I attend most games. I quite like to hear the little snippets about people's experiences at the game, what they thought of the referee, that chance for Gayle at the end ( was it really a chance? It hasn't had a mention on here). 

Why should I avoid this thread?  Mods need to do their job and delete all the off-topic stuff or move it to the Warne thread, which I can easily avoid.

A good point, a lot seems to be cut and paste, more akin to the season rather than the game.

Thought the ref was fine, didn't influence the result and tried to let the game go without calling for all niggling fouls. 
 

For me, I can see why DG was left on bench, PW likes to influence games at a latter stage with his subs, and had Waghorn been fit he probably would have started him. Biggest downfall was ball retention, Wildsmith seemed to start it and it continued throughout the team. Something I believe CH does is slow the game down on purpose, keeping the ball and making the opponent chase, this didn't happen. 
 

That said, thought we didn't look in any danger until their goal that came out the blue, we then ride the storm and I thought we were in control again by time they hit their second. Thought then the final ball let us down, bad decisions when we got in good positions.

Still celebrating the DG goal, even though I think he was offside and it didn't even go in 🙈