Derby v Shrewsbury Town - Match Day Thread

[dingleram]

So Ipswich, Wednesday, Plymouth et al last season could spent money and improve their teams with a lot more freedom than we can currently. Ipswich (and Sunderland previously) had a fair few seasons down in league one before they clicked and went up, this our second season starting from scratch so I think it's optimistic to expect to be in a much better position than we are in now. 

I think if we had no restrictions financially for a season or two, we'd be in a much stronger position and would fair much better if/when we went back up to the Champ. If we go up this year we'd have to spend a lot more to compete and would potentially struggle...

Personally I'd be happy to consolidate financially and build over a few seasons before achieving successive promotions and challenging for European football after VAR has been scrapped for sucking the life and enjoyment out of football.

[MadAmster]

21 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

The weird thing is, despite most games being pretty grim in general, and I often leave the ground thinking that wasn't very good but at least we managed to hold on (or something similar), after a couple of days I still can't wait for the next game. I'll renew my season ticket and attend half a dozen away games next season even though I have fairly low expectations (but high hopes) for what's in store. The agony of being a football supporter. It feels a bit like an addiction - it costs you a load of money and the lows often outweigh the highs but you simply can't give it up.

As you will know I manage between 6 and 8 games a season, watching the rest here in NL via my RamsTV "season ticket". Friday to Sunday for a game including flights and hotel etc is around £500. The Stevenage game will be #4 or #5 this season thus far. Already booked for a 6 day stay for the Reading and Bolton games in March and coming back for the Carlisle game in April as well. Damned expensive hobby being a Ram. I'd do more games but finances get in the way.

Why do we do it? For me it's many facetted. Seeing old friends (and making new ones) and family in Burton and Derby. Getting to drink real ale instead of lager. A change of scenery and last but by no means least... once a Ram, always a Ram. It's deep inside us and we are addicts, pretty much in the same vein as Del Boy telling Rodders "this time next year...". 

Seriously, how do you break a habit of, in my case, 63 years and counting? 

[RoyMac5]

9 hours ago, dingleram said:

...I think if we had no restrictions financially for a season or two, we'd be in a much stronger position and would fair much better if/when we went back up to the Champ. If we go up this year we'd have to spend a lot more to compete and would potentially struggle...

Personally I'd be happy to consolidate financially and build over a few seasons before achieving successive promotions and challenging for European football after VAR has been scrapped for sucking the life and enjoyment out of football.

Not much sign of us 'building over a few seasons'? Another of the reasons some fans aren't impressed with Warne.

[TomTom92]

I think if we do go up Warne must be praised as its mission accomplished.

However Warneball is up there with the worst football I've seen at Derby. Although i will acknowledge that maybe myself and others are so down on PW as we probably expect to go up. Maybe if he had us 17th in the Championship next season playing Warneball me and others wouldn't be quite as critical. 

Although maybe that last sentence is rubbish because half the forum couldn't stand Rowett (I could) and he had us top 6. 

I do think sadly promotion or no promotion Warne's time here will never be looked upon too fondly. He seemed to have fans against him from the start and now i'd say at least 1/3 of the fan base either despise his football or want hm gone. Sad for everyone really.

[MadAmster]

35 minutes ago, TomTom92 said:

I think if we do go up Warne must be praised as its mission accomplished.

However Warneball is up there with the worst football I've seen at Derby. Although i will acknowledge that maybe myself and others are so down on PW as we probably expect to go up. Maybe if he had us 17th in the Championship next season playing Warneball me and others wouldn't be quite as critical. 

Although maybe that last sentence is rubbish because half the forum couldn't stand Rowett (I could) and he had us top 6. 

I do think sadly promotion or no promotion Warne's time here will never be looked upon too fondly. He seemed to have fans against him from the start and now i'd say at least 1/3 of the fan base either despise his football or want hm gone. Sad for everyone really.

Rowett. Guaranteed to polarise thoughts. I didn't like the football he served up, despite it being reasonably successful. Much the same as I was with Paul Clement. Clement went when results became as bad as the football. Rowett never got that far. None of us will really know why he went but... the commonest "reason/rumour" is MM told him there was no money for incoming transfers which was why he decided he'd be better off elsewhere. In came Lampard... Waggy £5M, Marriott undisclosed, Florian Jozefzoon £2.75M, Wilson undisclosed loan fee, Holmes for a reported £700K, Cole no fee but wages won't have been cheap, Tomori  undisclosed loan fee, Andy King undisclosed loan fee, Evans for a reported £1M, Malone undisclosed fee, Mount undisclosed loan fee. So, there was money there, possibly just not for Rowett. One thing is certain, there;s little chance we'd have had Wilson, Tomori or Mount if GR had still been manager. I think we would have still seen "safety first" football but we'll never know if he could have improved on his 17/18 finish.

[Sparkle]

7 minutes ago, MadAmster said:

Rowett. Guaranteed to polarise thoughts. I didn't like the football he served up, despite it being reasonably successful. Much the same as I was with Paul Clement. Clement went when results became as bad as the football. Rowett never got that far. None of us will really know why he went but... the commonest "reason/rumour" is MM told him there was no money for incoming transfers which was why he decided he'd be better off elsewhere. In came Lampard... Waggy £5M, Marriott undisclosed, Florian Jozefzoon £2.75M, Wilson undisclosed loan fee, Holmes for a reported £700K, Cole no fee but wages won't have been cheap, Tomori  undisclosed loan fee, Andy King undisclosed loan fee, Evans for a reported £1M, Malone undisclosed fee, Mount undisclosed loan fee. So, there was money there, possibly just not for Rowett. One thing is certain, there;s little chance we'd have had Wilson, Tomori or Mount if GR had still been manager. I think we would have still seen "safety first" football but we'll never know if he could have improved on his 17/18 finish.

Maybe but he wanted to leave and so he did

[TomTom92]

9 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

Maybe but he wanted to leave and so he did

@MadAmster I think Rowett has shown that counter attack football is his way. 
 
I don’t blame him for signing Huddleston, Davies etc. Mel had a reputation for sacking quickly so why would GR plan for the future? 
 
Anyway we digress, I think ultimately some fans will never warm to Warne even if he got us to the prem. He’s shown during his career to be a good Lg1 manager, but whether he’s a good fit for Derby is up for debate (which has been done over and over again).

[Ghost of Clough]

35 minutes ago, MadAmster said:

Rowett. Guaranteed to polarise thoughts. I didn't like the football he served up, despite it being reasonably successful. Much the same as I was with Paul Clement. Clement went when results became as bad as the football. Rowett never got that far. None of us will really know why he went but... the commonest "reason/rumour" is MM told him there was no money for incoming transfers which was why he decided he'd be better off elsewhere. In came Lampard... Waggy £5M, Marriott undisclosed, Florian Jozefzoon £2.75M, Wilson undisclosed loan fee, Holmes for a reported £700K, Cole no fee but wages won't have been cheap, Tomori  undisclosed loan fee, Andy King undisclosed loan fee, Evans for a reported £1M, Malone undisclosed fee, Mount undisclosed loan fee. So, there was money there, possibly just not for Rowett. One thing is certain, there;s little chance we'd have had Wilson, Tomori or Mount if GR had still been manager. I think we would have still seen "safety first" football but we'll never know if he could have improved on his 17/18 finish.

Rowett's style of play still varied. A bit of magic from Lawrence or Vydra. Nugent and Winnall pressing from the front, and Jerome to give us a target man for Forsyth to aim his crosses at. Weimann and Russell (until Jan) mixed it up on the wings.

Warne gives us "pass to Hourihane who will pass it out to the right to get Mendez-Laing on the ball. Mendez-Laing will cross to Collins". It's all too predictable which contributes to it being boring to watch.

[Gabby'sThighs]

2 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Not much sign of us 'building over a few seasons'? Another of the reasons some fans aren't impressed with Warne.

Well, the first stage was signing enough free transfers just to survive, mostly done by Rosenior. That was, predictably, a mixed bag, and we just missed out on the play-offs last season, with a thin squad running out of steam. Then PW signed enough decent free transfers to challenge, and we're currently 2nd in the table and on course to get more wins & points than last season. Getting promoted would be part of the building process, but we'll see if that happens.

Signings like Wilson, Nyambe, Fornah, and Blackett-Taylor point towards the future, and Cashin's contract extension at least secures a decent fee when he does go. NML renewing means retaining arguably our best attacker, and the players we shed this summer (Smith, Hourihane, Waghorn) should free up enough wages to allow us to go for younger replacements.

I'd argue that giving more playing time to some U21s would be an encouraging sign of building for the future, but the academy have at least been getting new players in.

There are some green shoots, surely?

[TuffLuff]

Had a long ponder about Saturday after the game and to be honest for large parts of yesterday, mainly because I think this squad and Warne’s tenure in general is very hard to conclude on. Simply put, anything that you can say is wrong is rebutted by our league standing and stats. Generally I look at  qguhin Imost of the moaning as a bit OTT, but I say this who isn’t going to games regularly right now and can appreciate that people are taking the best part of a day over a weekend to be served a football match which is ponderous at best. I did go on Saturday and do believe you can see a lot more in the ground than what you can on a telly screen so felt I could add a bit more into how I saw things.

-In the first half there was a single over used pass that was Wildsmith to Nyambe. It’s not a slight on either player but it was the east option because Shrewsbury didn’t press it and kept their shape. We’d pass out and there wasn’t a real option for Nyambe and it made our midfield drop. We maybe missed Cashin here because he’s a lot more willing to gamble on a diagonal punt towards a runner. 

-The other issue we had was our wing backs lacked match sharpness. Both seemed unwilling to run at their opposition half despite Shrewsburys willingness to try and put a foot in. A part of this was also how flat our passing was, much of it was direct to feet rather than in front of a player running onto it. Meant Sibley and Ward especially were taking touches to get it out of their feet. There was space for both players but it was never capitalised on. 

-A lot of offsides were avoidable, simply put. You could Shrewsbury players moving up when the counter was on. All it would take was for NML or whoever to hold the run for one moment and they would beat their defence in a foot race or tempt the keeper out who was far from convincing. 

-In general I think we needed to run at them more, attract fouls and pull them out of shape. We didn’t do that enough in either half

-We dropped off second half after the goal and we are nearly looking at points being dropped at home in the last 10 minutes being in double figures. Unfortunately I do think that’s because of aside maybe a core 7 or 8 players you struggle to believe we have players you’d rely on. Like the subs that came on, did any improve on what we already had? But the biggest thing I noticed in the ground was how everything halted in the ground once we went 1-0. Atmosphere went after singing ‘The Rams are going up’, players passing was casual and back to being about holding on to this 1-0 than maybe going to finish it off. I don’t know what comes first in that regard, but I do think there’s a collective assumption that we’re better than everyone else and in control of games we really aren’t controlling. Much like Mac in his second season. We need to stop allowing opposition teams get a foothold in games because defences lapses will always happen. But you need to minimise their impact

-Last point but I got slightly irked by Bird’s interview post game, because he was speaking about clubs like Shrewsbury coming to Pride Park and it being their cup final or whatever. There is some truth in it but I think it comes across terribly when you are dropping points against a side because the simple truth to me is that they are showing more heart and not giving up. Less getting involved in the push and shove dramatics in the box too, i want to see us control games and gives these sides a tough afternoon across the pitch. 

[RoyMac5]

32 minutes ago, Gabby'sThighs said:

Well, the first stage was signing enough free transfers just to survive, mostly done by Rosenior. That was, predictably, a mixed bag, and we just missed out on the play-offs last season, with a thin squad running out of steam. Then PW signed enough decent free transfers to challenge, and we're currently 2nd in the table and on course to get more wins & points than last season. Getting promoted would be part of the building process, but we'll see if that happens.

Signings like Wilson, Nyambe, Fornah, and Blackett-Taylor point towards the future, and Cashin's contract extension at least secures a decent fee when he does go. NML renewing means retaining arguably our best attacker, and the players we shed this summer (Smith, Hourihane, Waghorn) should free up enough wages to allow us to go for younger replacements.

I'd argue that giving more playing time to some U21s would be an encouraging sign of building for the future, but the academy have at least been getting new players in.

There are some green shoots, surely?

Ward and Elder - 3 year deals? Where is Warne going with his signings? He's not building for the future, he's recruiting for promotion. That's his whole 'be all and end all'.

Any green shoots seem to happen by accident. 😄

[Mucker1884]

17 hours ago, oodledoodle said:

I've no joy in anyone's misery watching the football on show at the moment. My post was meant to be sarcastic. Thanks for calling me a knob though, it's probably accurate.

Not sure if this is down to your poor reading skills, or my poor writing skills, but just to clarify, I didn't call you a knob, but did intend to imply that your one specific post to which I was referencing, made you come across as one.

As I seem to recall, there has also been evidence from other posts of yours that have made you appear like an absolute brick, so apologies for my part in any misunderstanding, and for highlighting your knobbish post alone!

 

 

That's right... "brick"!  🍻

[Mucker1884]

16 hours ago, Inverurie Ram said:

 

Gotta say, Young Arthur looks the business in that pic.  Very much an air of "'80's PE Teacher" about him, I reckon.

What do others think?

 

[loweman2]

15 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

What? Arthur Cox and Paul Warne? Ha ha ha ha ha...

tell me you didnt read it without saying "i didnt read it " ↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑

[SSD]

14 hours ago, jono said:

A lot of red ink there. Not entirely sure what significance it has ? I do see some of your points but too much is based on your premis that “Warne doesn’t want his team to retain the ball” honestly mate that’s garbage. All managers want their team to retain the ball and Warne is no different. Sure Cocu wanted possession at all costs with sidey backwards at the back. Nice idea but if the quality isn’t there it doesn’t work. 
 

We’ve got some good players but “good” is relative and we are in league one. Many of our better players are past their peak. 
I cannot think of a manager that would get us; with our current squad, with the restrictions we are under, in the league we are in ….. suddenly playing total football and getting points. 
 

Players have to pass accurately, predict a runners next move, read a bounce, time a tackle or simply have the pace, skill and confidence to beat a man. I contend that If we did that regularly then Warne’s football would no be as bad as you suggest 

Apologies for the red ink, I'm colourblind and didn't realise.

I will rephrase he doesn't want to retain the ball to he doesn't want to retain the ball in key points during the match. The manager has made hard work of earning the points when if we just kept the ball for 10-15 minutes rather than aimlessly going wide every time, it will grind teams now. Not pretty but at least we can exploit the space when the opposition get tired.

We've got one of the oldest squads in the league, where is the game management to take a breather and keep the ball. They look shattered as if we are playing quality sides every week, like we earned a brilliant point. Shrewsbury had nothing brilliant about them and we made them look better. It is a chore to watch this standard every week, nothing to do with Derby being in League One either. Ipswich could play nice fluid football, Plymouth did too. Okay, they had some stinkers along the way but I have heard plenty of praise from their fans on the managers and how much of a joy it is to watch every week. How is it we are 2nd yet it's a 50/50 split on how we perform and the football on offer, even on those unbeaten runs. Something isn't adding up. Warne has demonstrated so far he is just a short term Neil Warnock type manager who I don't believe can take his football up another level. Achieves results here but this is never going to be competitive when we play teams who can actually pass a ball more than 5 yards. And I hope he proves me wrong when we gain promotion out of this pit of a division. 

I think we are just making things very difficult for ourselves when we have the quality and experience in the side to see games out.  

[RoyMac5]

18 minutes ago, loweman2 said:

tell me you didnt read it without saying "i didnt read it " ↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑

I just listened to the music.

[Chris_Martin]

1 hour ago, Gabby'sThighs said:

Well, the first stage was signing enough free transfers just to survive, mostly done by Rosenior. That was, predictably, a mixed bag, and we just missed out on the play-offs last season, with a thin squad running out of steam. Then PW signed enough decent free transfers to challenge, and we're currently 2nd in the table and on course to get more wins & points than last season. Getting promoted would be part of the building process, but we'll see if that happens.

Signings like Wilson, Nyambe, Fornah, and Blackett-Taylor point towards the future, and Cashin's contract extension at least secures a decent fee when he does go. NML renewing means retaining arguably our best attacker, and the players we shed this summer (Smith, Hourihane, Waghorn) should free up enough wages to allow us to go for younger replacements.

I'd argue that giving more playing time to some U21s would be an encouraging sign of building for the future, but the academy have at least been getting new players in.

There are some green shoots, surely?

Nyambe was only signed because he messed up the summer transfer window trying to recruit for a formation that didn't work

[jono]

56 minutes ago, SSD said:

Apologies for the red ink, I'm colourblind and didn't realise.

I will rephrase he doesn't want to retain the ball to he doesn't want to retain the ball in key points during the match. The manager has made hard work of earning the points when if we just kept the ball for 10-15 minutes rather than aimlessly going wide every time, it will grind teams now. Not pretty but at least we can exploit the space when the opposition get tired.

We've got one of the oldest squads in the league, where is the game management to take a breather and keep the ball. They look shattered as if we are playing quality sides every week, like we earned a brilliant point. Shrewsbury had nothing brilliant about them and we made them look better. It is a chore to watch this standard every week, nothing to do with Derby being in League One either. Ipswich could play nice fluid football, Plymouth did too. Okay, they had some stinkers along the way but I have heard plenty of praise from their fans on the managers and how much of a joy it is to watch every week. How is it we are 2nd yet it's a 50/50 split on how we perform and the football on offer, even on those unbeaten runs. Something isn't adding up. Warne has demonstrated so far he is just a short term Neil Warnock type manager who I don't believe can take his football up another level. Achieves results here but this is never going to be competitive when we play teams who can actually pass a ball more than 5 yards. And I hope he proves me wrong when we gain promotion out of this pit of a division. 

I think we are just making things very difficult for ourselves when we have the quality and experience in the side to see games out.  

You make a good case but I remain convinced that our inconsistencies lie much more with simply making too many individual mistakes. That said we are in second place. 
The football looks bad at times, no denying that, particularly in midfield but I suspect it wouldn’t if we made fewer mistakes or took more opportunities. I don’t think Warne is a genius but I believe he does know what he’s doing / coaching but at times the players aren’t adjusting as well as perhaps they might. One thing for sure there isn’t a manager with a magic wand. If you’re not fond of Warne long term, I could get that, but in the ebb and flow of life as a Derby fan right now ? He’s doing and saying the right stuff within reasonable parameters. (And acknowledging most of his errors when they happen ) 

[ap04]

17 hours ago, Jourdan said:

We’ve gone from getting 21 points from 14 games earlier in the season and looking barely like a top half team, compared to 39 points from 17 games most recently

This is skewed to an extent by the fact we were unlucky not to win just once last 17 (Saturday) compared to twice first 14 (Cambridge-Cheltenham); the Bolton red against versus the Orient red in favour; and more away games & slightly tougher schedule earlier on.

Also form post-Oxford has been clearly worse than the first 14 you mentioned.

[RoyMac5]

10 minutes ago, jono said:

You make a good case but I remain convinced that our inconsistencies lie much more with simply making too many individual mistakes. That said we are in second place. 
The football looks bad at times, no denying that, particularly in midfield but I suspect it wouldn’t if we made fewer mistakes or took more opportunities. I don’t think Warne is a genius but I believe he does know what he’s doing / coaching but at times the players aren’t adjusting as well as perhaps they might. One thing for sure there isn’t a manager with a magic wand. If you’re not fond of Warne long term, I could get that, but in the ebb and flow of life as a Derby fan right now ? He’s doing and saying the right stuff within reasonable parameters. (And acknowledging most of his errors when they happen ) 

The level we are playing out would make that scenario difficult to execute? If the players were so good that they didn't make 'so many' individual mistakes then the likelihood is that they wouldn't be in league 1 if they could play football well.