Finance

[Crewton]

2 minutes ago, WestKentRam said:

I'm only repeating what I heard on the podcast, about a further 15 point deduction would have been due if football creditors weren't paid in full. 

The question the listener sent in was... they thought for a club to exit administration that all football debt had to be settled in full, and according to the Derby Telegraph, that despite Derby leaving administration in 2022, the club still owed Arsenal for Krystian Bielik.

Maguire said, after looking at the most recent administrator's report, the payment would have been in the £8.8M settled in full by David Clowes, and if he hadn't done this then a further 15 point deduction would have occurred.

Could well be he is wrong and you are right. I'm glad I'm not an accountant.

Clubs exiting administration only have to pay sums due to football creditors that haven't been paid. Further payments were due to Arsenal after we exited Admin in accordance with the terms agreed between the two clubs, but Clowes wasn't required to pay those early.

Someone certainly seems to have got their wires crossed.

[Steadybreeze]

1 hour ago, Foreveram said:

It worked out ok for Leicester.

Maybe we should try it again then

[Foreveram]

35 minutes ago, Steadybreeze said:

Maybe we should try it again then

Too late, that’s why they bought in automatic points deduction for  administration after Leicester cheated the system.

[MaltRam]

I see on the BBC that the yank who owns 45% of Crystal Palace, plus Lyon, Botofogo in Brazil and a Belgian club is selling his stake in Palace, and wanting to buy Everton...or a Championship club. No indication that there's any specific back-up Championship club in mind, let alone Derby.

Sounds like the sort of network that might open doors for whoever he takes over though. Maybe the sort of thing we need longer term...with all due respect to Mr Clowes, who has earnt the the right to pick our path whether he remains at the helm or sells or partners.

If he did end up going for a Champ club, being solvent, with our fan base and infrastructure, I'd think we'd be an option.

[ramit]

Gone are the days of running  a great loss every season to chase a faster rabbit

Get used to the idea of having to earn money to spend money

[Carnero]

7 hours ago, MaltRam said:

I see on the BBC that the yank who owns 45% of Crystal Palace, plus Lyon, Botofogo in Brazil and a Belgian club is selling his stake in Palace, and wanting to buy Everton...or a Championship club. No indication that there's any specific back-up Championship club in mind, let alone Derby.

Sounds like the sort of network that might open doors for whoever he takes over though. Maybe the sort of thing we need longer term...with all due respect to Mr Clowes, who has earnt the the right to pick our path whether he remains at the helm or sells or partners.

If he did end up going for a Champ club, being solvent, with our fan base and infrastructure, I'd think we'd be an option.

I was just coming on here to make the same suggestio, with the caveat that Textor/Eagle Group could buy a stake but still let Clowes run the football club, along the same lines as Steve Parrish runs Palace even though he only has a 10% stake.

[Simmo’s left foot]

9 hours ago, ramit said:

Gone are the days of running  a great loss every season to chase a faster rabbit

Get used to the idea of having to earn money to spend money

Yes indeed. Amazingly there are still people here who think the way forward is for owners to throw money at it. Incredible.

[kevinhectoring]

On 22/05/2024 at 14:45, WestKentRam said:

I just posted what he said on here as I found it interesting, in particular that there were other buyers who would have taken another large points hit, as I wasn't aware of this.

I think Mike Ashley’s hope was that no one would pay the 25% to football creditors, so that he could buy the club for £1 debt free, the stadium for £23m,  and watch us slowly and painfully climb the football pyramid. Good old David Clowes 

[kevinhectoring]

34 minutes ago, Simmo’s left foot said:

Yes indeed. Amazingly there are still people here who think the way forward is for owners to throw money at it. Incredible.

Why don’t we want both? Spectacularly wealthy owners who run the club responsibly but with ambition? 

[MadAmster]

4 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

Why don’t we want both? Spectacularly wealthy owners who run the club responsibly but with ambition? 

They are rarer than a 5 legged sheep. Folks with that amount of money will want an instant return on their "investment".

[RoyMac5]

19 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

I think Mike Ashley’s hope was that no one would pay the 25% to football creditors, so that he could buy the club for £1 debt free, the stadium for £23m,  and watch us slowly and painfully climb the football pyramid. Good old David Clowes 

Except he put money into the Newcastle squad, and got promotion, just not as much money as the Geordies wanted. 

[Crewton]

3 hours ago, kevinhectoring said:

Why don’t we want both? Spectacularly wealthy owners who run the club responsibly but with ambition? 

How is "throwing money at it" the same as "running the club responsibly"?

And does anyone think that David Clowes "lacks ambition"? He's probably just a bit more patient in pursuit of it than some disastrous owners and some fans are.

[ram59]

9 hours ago, Simmo’s left foot said:

Yes indeed. Amazingly there are still people here who think the way forward is for owners to throw money at it. Incredible.

Unfortunately, the way to get promoted to the premier is to generally throw money at it. We are the only club who failed and got punished. Time and time again clubs have been promoted by throwing money at it and have avoided punishment, the list is very long, Villa, Fester, Bournemouth twice, QPR, Watford, etc.

Clubs doing it the 'right way' are few and far between.

[Van der MoodHoover]

1 hour ago, ram59 said:

Unfortunately, the way to get promoted to the premier is to generally throw money at it. We are the only club who failed and got punished. Time and time again clubs have been promoted by throwing money at it and have avoided punishment, the list is very long, Villa, Fester, Bournemouth twice, QPR, Watford, etc.

Clubs doing it the 'right way' are few and far between.

Luton, Burnley, Brentford and dare one say, Forest in recent seasons.....

[Ghost of Clough]

29 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

Luton, Burnley, Brentford and dare one say, Forest in recent seasons.....

3 of those clubs had a higher wage bill than we've ever had in our entire history.

Forest made a £45.6m loss in their promotion season due to a £58.6m wage bill.

Burnley had a £53.6m wage bill and lost £27m despite being in their 1st year with parachute payments.

Brentford made a loss of £9m after selling players for £44.3m due to a £41.4m wage bill.

[ram59]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

3 of those clubs had a higher wage bill than we've ever had in our entire history.

Forest made a £45.6m loss in their promotion season due to a £58.6m wage bill.

Burnley had a £53.6m wage bill and lost £27m despite being in their 1st year with parachute payments.

Brentford made a loss of £9m after selling players for £44.3m due to a £41.4m wage bill.

It just goes to show that even teams who appear to be sensible, show their true colours when the accounts are published 12 months later. 

A recent survey showed that the average wage bill of teams promoted was over £60m, completely unsustainable for non parachute teams.

[kevinhectoring]

12 hours ago, MadAmster said:

They are rarer than a 5 legged sheep. Folks with that amount of money will want an instant return on their "investment".

Watch Portsmouth for example 

[kevinhectoring]

9 hours ago, Crewton said:

How is "throwing money at it" the same as "running the club responsibly"?

And does anyone think that David Clowes "lacks ambition"? He's probably just a bit more patient in pursuit of it than some disastrous owners and some fans are.

A well run club can spend a lot of money 

I’ve not said for a moment DC lacks ambition, why put those words into my mouth? What I have said elsewhere is that he won’t be injecting significant funds into the club. This is nothing to do with the club being prudent and nothing to do with lack of ambition.  It’s to do with him being prudent with the family wealth. 

[MadAmster]

8 hours ago, kevinhectoring said:

A well run club can spend a lot of money 

I’ve not said for a moment DC lacks ambition, why put those words into my mouth? What I have said elsewhere is that he won’t be injecting significant funds into the club. This is nothing to do with the club being prudent and nothing to do with lack of ambition.  It’s to do with him being prudent with the family wealth. 

Absolutely. I would hazard a guess that, with a reported total "worth" of around £250M and, having spent around £50M buying the club, he doesn't have a great deal in liquid assets. Most of his worth will be tied up in stocks & shares, land, buildings, plant, machinery, a football stadium etc. There's, more than likely, little left in liquid assets.

[jono]

1 hour ago, MadAmster said:

Absolutely. I would hazard a guess that, with a reported total "worth" of around £250M and, having spent around £50M buying the club, he doesn't have a great deal in liquid assets. Most of his worth will be tied up in stocks & shares, land, buildings, plant, machinery, a football stadium etc. There's, more than likely, little left in liquid assets.

Yes ! Although I am pretty sure if PW wants a certain 1 million pound player he can have him, BUT what Clowes won’t do is have the monthly drain that a bloated wage bill would incur.