Lincoln v Derby match day thread.

[Chris_Martin]

1 hour ago, Crewton said:

Do you even have a glass?

You're worrying about surviving a division we haven't even reached yet........

but you have to have plans in place for long term success. Worrying about it when we get there will be too late, should be building towards it now 

[Ghost of Clough]

1 hour ago, duncanjwitham said:

Oooh look, it's Eiran "Horror Show" Cashin, in the team of the week...

 

Whoscored's actual team of the week was slightly different as it's 442 based. The EFL removed Leyton Orient's Sweeney (LB) and Agyei (CF) and Blackpool's Hamilton (RW) to put in Brayford (CB), Wigan's Aasgaard, and Portsmouth's Kamara

[Chris_Martin]

1 hour ago, Mucker1884 said:

Haven't you heard mate?  We did!
It was clo(w)se, but we got there. 
Now is the time to build a new life... Softly, softly, catchee monkey... patience is a virtue... one day at a time (sweet Jesus)... etc, etc...

If we have to scrape by for a while, losing to the likes of Crewe and Bradford, then so be it.  It's much better than being dead.

🐏

 

of course it's better than being dead, but as you said yourself, we did. It's in the past, we should be looking forward now. How do we be successful from now onwards?

 

[Crewton]

4 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said:

but you have to have plans in place for long term success. Worrying about it when we get there will be too late, should be building towards it now 

What makes you think there aren't long term plans in place? Isn't giving a manager a 4 year contract just that? 

It's easy to do what you do. Try being constructive for a change.

[Chris_Martin]

13 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

I can see Warne's intended style of playing mimicing Klopp's Liverpool. The question then is, can we recruit players in the summer which will allow us to play that way at Championship level. Will we even shape up with a 433? Anything else will sacrifce the press - playing either a 3 at the back or 2 up front would reduce the effectiveness of Klopp's high intensity pressing style.

the high intensity pressing is really where the similarities end though. Klopp likes the 2 wide players to move in with the forward dropping deep to link play. Warne wants wide players to stay wide and cross to a target man up front. Klopp likes to control games with the ball, warne is fine with not having it. We also saw over the summer with all his signings, that warne's prefered system is having 3 CB's and wing backs, very different to Klopp's approach.

[Chris_Martin]

18 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said:

Let's just get there first, see what money there is to spend and then assess.

pretty sure that would be too late

[Wolfie20]

15 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said:

but you have to have plans in place for long term success. Worrying about it when we get there will be too late, should be building towards it now 

How do you know DC and Warne aren't? You would expect the owner, being a successful businessman, will be quite familiar with forward planning.

[Caerphilly Ram]

17 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said:

but you have to have plans in place for long term success. Worrying about it when we get there will be too late, should be building towards it now 

The club is building towards it now.
 

There’s been public comment via interviews and fan forums about the continued investment in the academy, the focus on rebuilding the age groups for the future, a restructuring of the back of house staff related to the academy and player recruitment. Clowes mentioned his desire (with caveats that nothing is guaranteed) to be established in the Championship within a 5 year timeframe.

The club has extended the contracts of Nyambe and Mendez-Laing, triggered the extension in Cashin’s contract and put a contract offer to Bird either in a genuine attempt to secure him beyond the summer or at the very least to protect the club’s receipt of compensation.

Warne has shown some short sightedness with some of the summer recruitment but also a couple of examples of being able to pick a player (Nelson, Nyambe, Wilson). He’s commented (or at the very least alluded to the fact) that recruitment has been focused on players who can help us in league one and make the step up to the championship, and that ongoing recruitment will be dependent on what league we’re in. 

We’re allegedly about to sign a 26 year old wide player who has scored and assisted goals at this level the last two seasons so will offer us a good few years of his peak level (if only we can find the fax machine/EFL/social media team).
 

I get that you, and others, don’t like Warne and his style. But IF we get promoted and IF he doesn’t make a good go of it he probably leaves and someone else comes in, the club is putting all the other infrastructure in place towards a long term process regardless of who is first team manager. 

[On the Ram Page]

24 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said:

the high intensity pressing is really where the similarities end though. Klopp likes the 2 wide players to move in with the forward dropping deep to link play. Warne wants wide players to stay wide and cross to a target man up front. Klopp likes to control games with the ball, warne is fine with not having it. We also saw over the summer with all his signings, that warne's prefered system is having 3 CB's and wing backs, very different to Klopp's approach.

Klopps not in League One

[jimtastic56]

2 hours ago, oodledoodle said:

Hopefully Cash learns a lesson on when to drop off, and when to step up. With his pace, he's been easily able to recover when he steps ahead of the attacker to win the ball and makes a hash of it. This Saturday was the first time I've ever seen him get left for dead with pace. So he should drop off and go for the second ball.

He'll not have that pace all his career. He'll need to learn all types of defending, can't just rely on last ditch tackles.

This isn't a criticism at all. For him to have the confidence to always want to step ahead of his man and get tight is admirable for such a young lad. It just left him short for once this weekend.

I’ve seen him running in treacle many times - Plymouth last season , Carlton Morris gave Cash the run around v Barnsley . But Hey Dave Mackay had no speed .

[Ghost of Clough]

40 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said:

the high intensity pressing is really where the similarities end though. Klopp likes the 2 wide players to move in with the forward dropping deep to link play. Warne wants wide players to stay wide and cross to a target man up front. Klopp likes to control games with the ball, warne is fine with not having it. We also saw over the summer with all his signings, that warne's prefered system is having 3 CB's and wing backs, very different to Klopp's approach.

Warne has shown himself to be adaptable (with a bit of pursuision). He didn't always play 3 at the back at Rotherham - it was only the 2nd half of 20/21 when he started using it consistently. In his previous 2 seasons in the Championship, he only used 3 at the back on three occasions. With falling back on 4 at the back 2 seasons in a row, I wouldn't bet on that being the intended shape next season either.

Blackett-Taylor and Mendez-Laing are both types who will mix it up, particularly when playing on the left when both will cut in.

[Walkley Ram]

34 minutes ago, jimtastic56 said:

I’ve seen him running in treacle many times - Plymouth last season , Carlton Morris gave Cash the run around v Barnsley . But Hey Dave Mackay had no speed .

That's it. McGrath didn't even have knees and he was the best defender I've ever seen. I'm not saying he's bad due to a lack of pace, he just needs to learn how to defend all types of situations.

[FlyBritishMidland]

3 hours ago, Comrade 86 said:

Lolz, just answered @ariotofmyown along those lines.

Argh. I suppose it's good to laugh about this stuff, though I honestly, do miss the days when we were less divided. Everything is just one long bicker these days. This is really the last form of social media I still use 😔

I could get into a whole range of things here but we’re a “want it now” society.  Everything has to be instantaneous.  I posted tongue in cheek but I do believe there will be some (more on Twitter, x or whatever it’s called) that if he hasn’t beaten a full-back, got an assist or scored in his first 45mins that will be saying he’s a waste of money and a waste useless whatever insult they choose to throw at him.  Sad really 😢.

Edited January 22 by FlyBritishMidland

[LeedsCityRam]

3 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

I can see Warne's intended style of playing mimicing Klopp's Liverpool. The question then is, can we recruit players in the summer which will allow us to play that way at Championship level. Will we even shape up with a 433? Anything else will sacrifce the press - playing either a 3 at the back or 2 up front would reduce the effectiveness of Klopp's high intensity pressing style.

Not read all the thread so not sure if anyone else has commented on this but there was a lot of passing out from the keeper on Saturday. Hourihane was often picking the ball up as the last man & we were knocking it around the back & then passing through the lines into midfield rather than just launching it every time. It was good to see that variety & coming back to your point about Klopp, reminiscent of how they build the play.

[duncanjwitham]

19 minutes ago, Stockport Ram said:

Good old (oops,sorry,new) stat calculated greatness eh? I swear by them. Who scored ratings,XG, I’m actually thinking of not watching football any more because I can get all the answers I need from stats. 

Imagine how many hours I’ll never get back as I’ve been foolish enough for the last fifty odd years to make my own opinions from using my eyes and watching games? Sheesh ! 🤦‍♂️

I could have used all those hours to get a degree in statistics....

Personally, I think they’re useful tools, just don’t read stuff into them that they’re not claiming to say.  For example, xG is IMO a “better” indicator of who had the best chances in a game than raw shot counts, or shots on target or whatever.  But it’s not some magic stat that says absolutely who should have won a game.  The Cashin rating is interesting because quite a few people seem to be absolutely slating him based off getting done for pace a handful of times. That stat is saying that while that might have happened, the rest of the time he was probably as good as he always is.  So then you can make a judgement about how you value overall performance levels vs a few specific issues/mistakes.

 

[sage]

Just now, Stockport Ram said:

I’ve no beef with those who want to use the tools, but personally I prefer my eyes and my own (because we all have it) bias. 

Saturday’s game was a prime example - what were the xg’s of the relative teams? I’d be amazed if Lincoln’s didn’t comfortably exceed ours based on the clear cut chances we all saw, but my eyes told me we were the better side and more likely to create something, so I’d say we were the better team in a good draw. 

I genuinely don’t know the answer to this - had one of the three occasions when Cash was shown a clean pair of heels resulted in a goal (and therefore a 1-0 defeat), would that have changed his stat score?

The xg was something like 1.8 Derby to 1.2 Lincoln 

[sage]

7 minutes ago, Stockport Ram said:

For ease of reference, this is what I added :

“Yet they missed three, possibly four gilt edged chances, so surely should have won? 

If we had a higher xg based on clear chances from what I saw then I just don’t get the stats - no one issaying we missed 3 or 4 clear chances. We had morePLAY, but not more clear chances.“

hopefully that gets more of the point I was trying to make come across, sorry.

It's fine. My post still stands. Just quoting official data. 

Having watched the highlights, we had more chances but theirs were clearer, so I'd have expected them to be close.

[Van der MoodHoover]

7 hours ago, duncanjwitham said:

Oooh look, it's Eiran "Horror Show" Cashin, in the team of the week...

 

He's being played out of position! Has Warney been voted manager of the week?

[Chris_Martin]

6 hours ago, Wolfie20 said:

How do you know DC and Warne aren't? You would expect the owner, being a successful businessman, will be quite familiar with forward planning.

I would also expect that as a businessman, he doesn't fully know the best approach in football terms 

[Chris_Martin]

5 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Warne has shown himself to be adaptable (with a bit of pursuision). He didn't always play 3 at the back at Rotherham - it was only the 2nd half of 20/21 when he started using it consistently. In his previous 2 seasons in the Championship, he only used 3 at the back on three occasions. With falling back on 4 at the back 2 seasons in a row, I wouldn't bet on that being the intended shape next season either.

Blackett-Taylor and Mendez-Laing are both types who will mix it up, particularly when playing on the left when both will cut in.

They might want to mix it up, but we know what warne will make them do. cross, cross, cross.