January Reinforcements

[Anag Ram]

7 minutes ago, TomTom92 said:

I think the only way signing Gregory is acceptable is if it allows us to sign a midfielder as well. Or if it’s Gregory or nobody. 
 
We should’ve sold Cashin and invested properly.

If we sold Cashin we’d need a replacement for him because there’s no obvious CB partnership at the club to replace him. 
Nelson and Bradley together would be a disaster.

[Ghost of Clough]

Not stricly about January signings, but I thought an profile comparison with our 3 main promotion rivals would highlight where we were need to focus our attention on.

 

A few points of note:

1. I would say Warne's intended age profile is close to what Bolton currently have - the majority between 22 and 29, with more regular starters being in the upper end of that range. However, Bolton are known for having a more patient passing style. More game time over the rest of the season to the likes of Blackett-Taylor, Nyambe, Fornah and Ward would go some way to addressing the imbalance.

2. Those 3 clubs combined have given players aged 30+ 10538 minutes. We've given almost double the minutes to players over 30, with overr 12000 minutes to those aged 32 and over. Peterborough have almsot no players over the age of 24!

3. Both Portsmouth and Peterborough have given more minutes to those 21 and under. This is where we should have included Thompson and DRobinson much more than we have done. Occasional game time to the likes of Brown also would have helped. Rooney's injury is a mitigating factor.

[TomTom92]

16 minutes ago, Anag Ram said:

If we sold Cashin we’d need a replacement for him because there’s no obvious CB partnership at the club to replace him. 
Nelson and Bradley together would be a disaster.

Reckon we could bring in a decent defender for £1m. Obviously I’d be wanting £4.5m minimum for Cash.
 
Just think this season is there for the taking rather than selling Cash in the summer and having to start again. 

[S8TY]

7 minutes ago, Anag Ram said:

If we sold Cashin we’d need a replacement for him because there’s no obvious CB partnership at the club to replace him. 
Nelson and Bradley together would be a disaster.

There's plenty of decent CB's about if we had sold Bird and Cash , maybe Clarke back and I'd have gone back in for Roberts as I thought he was playing well for us last season once he'd properly settled then maybe we'd have a few quid to get another really good striker and Arblaster on loan 

I know its ex players but there are a few good players out there not including them we just seem devoid of a plan ...sometimes you have to sacrifice to get somewhere ...its all well and good keeping hold of players but we need to get out of this crap division we really do...how are we genuinely going to feel if we go into the last 3rd of the season with one striker and a midfield that doesnt work

I think deep down most, like me think we'll go up, but the reality is we may not and this window could be crucial 

I would hate another season is this bloody division.....2 is enough

[Oldben]

https://www.derbycounty.news/opinion/derby-county-must-pounce-on-in-form-reading-star-before-deadline-its-not-savage/

 

[Jimbo Ram]

46 minutes ago, Oldben said:

https://www.derbycounty.news/opinion/derby-county-must-pounce-on-in-form-reading-star-before-deadline-its-not-savage/

 

Haven’t been linked with him.

[KBB]

I think the problem we have with our young players and "stars" is that we hold on to them for too long and sell them on their downward price value. Some say it shows ambition to hold on to your best players. It does, however, and hindsight is a wonderful thing, selling players and reinvesting in a quality replacement and s young up and coming player has to be our business policy.

Thinking back to Hulse, Martin and thinking about Bird, Cashin, Sibley we will never receive a value our fans think is acceptable for them to leave. Sometimes you do have to sell assets at a good value, suck it up and move forward.

Sibley will never be sold for anywhere near the rumour of what wolves were prepared to pay before and during his breakthrough.

Fans see a lack of ambition in selling young players, however if we got anything around 3mill for Bird, we could potentially go and get moxon and branagan and bring through Robinson. For me, this would not be lacking ambition, it is rebuilding a midfield by "sacrificing" a good player to aid this process.

I don't want cashin or Bird to leave and rate them both highly but if we got between 5 and 7 mill for them combined I would sell them both and rebuild. These are the times the club is living in. We have to embrace this as a fan base.

When the club is stable and sustainable, then we demand top dollar for the next generation.

Young players impressing in the first team is where the value is. It is risky as they can sink or swim, but if Brown was up top for us and having the season Collins is and on a long term contract we would be talking 10mill for him.

[Oldben]

2 minutes ago, KBB said:

I think the problem we have with our young players and "stars" is that we hold on to them for too long and sell them on their downward price value. Some say it shows ambition to hold on to your best players. It does, however, and hindsight is a wonderful thing, selling players and reinvesting in a quality replacement and s young up and coming player has to be our business policy.

Thinking back to Hulse, Martin and thinking about Bird, Cashin, Sibley we will never receive a value our fans think is acceptable for them to leave. Sometimes you do have to sell assets at a good value, suck it up and move forward.

Sibley will never be sold for anywhere near the rumour of what wolves were prepared to pay before and during his breakthrough.

Fans see a lack of ambition in selling young players, however if we got anything around 3mill for Bird, we could potentially go and get moxon and branagan and bring through Robinson. For me, this would not be lacking ambition, it is rebuilding a midfield by "sacrificing" a good player to aid this process.

I don't want cashin or Bird to leave and rate them both highly but if we got between 5 and 7 mill for them combined I would sell them both and rebuild. These are the times the club is living in. We have to embrace this as a fan base.

When the club is stable and sustainable, then we demand top dollar for the next generation.

Young players impressing in the first team is where the value is. It is risky as they can sink or swim, but if Brown was up top for us and having the season Collins is and on a long term contract we would be talking 10mill for him.

Your assuming it would be reinvested back into rebuilding the squad

[KBB]

Even if we only spen 25% of that money it would really help a rebuild. Moxon and branagan for around 1.5mill combined would be a fee range I think is not silly or undervalued. Coupled with a young asset of our own like Robinson or tomo getting more minutes and a chance to impress.

[Topram]

It’s hard as we know we’re under restrictions we know we haven’t got much to spend but can’t help feeling like we’re being left behind by other clubs also challenging…. 

[Gabby'sThighs]

Just looking at Middlesbrough & Blackburn each about to sell an academy player for around £20m then considering how little time our young players have had to show their value. 

Imagine actually giving our youngsters some minutes in the first team and getting a £20m bid... 😕

[S8TY]

27 minutes ago, KBB said:

I think the problem we have with our young players and "stars" is that we hold on to them for too long and sell them on their downward price value. Some say it shows ambition to hold on to your best players. It does, however, and hindsight is a wonderful thing, selling players and reinvesting in a quality replacement and s young up and coming player has to be our business policy.

Thinking back to Hulse, Martin and thinking about Bird, Cashin, Sibley we will never receive a value our fans think is acceptable for them to leave. Sometimes you do have to sell assets at a good value, suck it up and move forward.

Sibley will never be sold for anywhere near the rumour of what wolves were prepared to pay before and during his breakthrough.

Fans see a lack of ambition in selling young players, however if we got anything around 3mill for Bird, we could potentially go and get moxon and branagan and bring through Robinson. For me, this would not be lacking ambition, it is rebuilding a midfield by "sacrificing" a good player to aid this process.

I don't want cashin or Bird to leave and rate them both highly but if we got between 5 and 7 mill for them combined I would sell them both and rebuild. These are the times the club is living in. We have to embrace this as a fan base.

When the club is stable and sustainable, then we demand top dollar for the next generation.

Young players impressing in the first team is where the value is. It is risky as they can sink or swim, but if Brown was up top for us and having the season Collins is and on a long term contract we would be talking 10mill for him.

Totally agree with this …whether Warne is the correct man to do this then I have my doubts ….plenty of good players about 

[nogbad van 50]

18 minutes ago, KBB said:

Even if we only spen 25% of that money it would really help a rebuild. Moxon and branagan for around 1.5mill combined would be a fee range I think is not silly or undervalued. Coupled with a young asset of our own like Robinson or tomo getting more minutes and a chance to impress.

Why do you think Oxford, one of our promotion rivals,would sell us Cameron Brannagan,one of the top midfield players in this division for anything less than the £2m he's been conservatively valued at ? Id love him at Derby but it's never going to happen,sadly.

[Ghost of Clough]

6 minutes ago, Gabby'sThighs said:

Just looking at Middlesbrough & Blackburn each about to sell an academy player for around £20m then considering how little time our young players have had to show their value. 

Imagine actually giving our youngsters some minutes in the first team and getting a £20m bid... 😕

Boro's Rogers was actually a £1.5m signing in the summer. Similar situation as Whittaker signing for Plymouth and now being linked with £10m+ moves. There's a common theme with the clubs selling young players for a lot of money - they have 'modern coaches' who have faith in playing youngsters. 
The market for Championship players used to be only PL clubs, but that market initially slowed down around Covid. However, clubs from Europe (Germany and Italy in particular) are now starting to take greater interest, in the hope of churning a massive profit to PL clubs in the future.

Young players prefer signing for clubs with modern coaches, and the club trust them more with their players. Carrick is a great example. This season alone he's signed Rogers, van den Berg, Azaz, Greenwood and Thomas. Rosenior has signed Philogene, Connolly, Carvalho, Delap, Twine and Morton

[Gabby'sThighs]

8 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Boro's Rogers was actually a £1.5m signing in the summer. Similar situation as Whittaker signing for Plymouth and now being linked with £10m+ moves.

I stand corrected! A huge profit on Rogers.

Same principle though - invest in and trust young players. Then reinvest when you sell. 

[Jimbo Ram]

45 minutes ago, KBB said:

I think the problem we have with our young players and "stars" is that we hold on to them for too long and sell them on their downward price value. Some say it shows ambition to hold on to your best players. It does, however, and hindsight is a wonderful thing, selling players and reinvesting in a quality replacement and s young up and coming player has to be our business policy.

Thinking back to Hulse, Martin and thinking about Bird, Cashin, Sibley we will never receive a value our fans think is acceptable for them to leave. Sometimes you do have to sell assets at a good value, suck it up and move forward.

Sibley will never be sold for anywhere near the rumour of what wolves were prepared to pay before and during his breakthrough.

Fans see a lack of ambition in selling young players, however if we got anything around 3mill for Bird, we could potentially go and get moxon and branagan and bring through Robinson. For me, this would not be lacking ambition, it is rebuilding a midfield by "sacrificing" a good player to aid this process.

I don't want cashin or Bird to leave and rate them both highly but if we got between 5 and 7 mill for them combined I would sell them both and rebuild. These are the times the club is living in. We have to embrace this as a fan base.

When the club is stable and sustainable, then we demand top dollar for the next generation.

Young players impressing in the first team is where the value is. It is risky as they can sink or swim, but if Brown was up top for us and having the season Collins is and on a long term contract we would be talking 10mill for him.

Dean Sturridge comes to mind. I think Cashin’s value will go up, not so sure about Bird.

[RoyMac5]

47 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

...Young players prefer signing for clubs with modern coaches, and the club trust them more with their players. Carrick is a great example. This season alone he's signed Rogers, van den Berg, Azaz, Greenwood and Thomas. Rosenior has signed Philogene, Connolly, Carvalho, Delap, Twine and Morton

Still can't really understand how come Clowes gets in new 'reputable' Academy staff, but chased after Warne as first team manager. 

Whilst I really didn't want to watch two seasons in league 1, we were meant to be rebuilding. And whatever some people think he's not making the most of our older Academy players either. 

Be glad when the window is shut.

#COYR

[Ghost of Clough]

18 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Still can't really understand how come Clowes gets in new 'reputable' Academy staff, but chased after Warne as first team manager. 

Whilst I really didn't want to watch two seasons in league 1, we were meant to be rebuilding. And whatever some people think he's not making the most of our older Academy players either. 

Be glad when the window is shut.

#COYR

Tbh, I think it's been hinted at a couple of times. They overestimated how long it would take to 'rebuild' the academy, so didn't expect many players to come through for a couple of years. This would have likely been a factor towards opting for a manager with minimal histroy of bringing through academy players, and no working history with a category 1 academy.

[Ambitious]

2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Still can't really understand how come Clowes gets in new 'reputable' Academy staff, but chased after Warne as first team manager. 

Whilst I really didn't want to watch two seasons in league 1, we were meant to be rebuilding. And whatever some people think he's not making the most of our older Academy players either. 

Be glad when the window is shut.

#COYR

Our approach since the takeover has been incredibly short-term from a first team point of view. Clowes hired Warne on his ability to get teams out of league one, nothing more, and got rid of a very promising coach to facilitate that move. 

I understand that some of the transfers have needed to be short-term, but if we aren’t promoted this season then I would endeavour him reconsider his own approach. 

I’m in no doubt we would be in a much better shape, in almost every single aspect, had we gone with Rosenior - who was already well respected within the building, recruited really well despite strict budgets and had shown a lot of promise. The move isn’t unsurprising for a new owner of a club, who went for the CV of a manager who had ‘been there and done it’ over a guy who had a lot of promise.

For the record, I don’t blame him and I (with a lot of people) could see the logic but in hindsight I don’t think it was right. We don’t get to see what happens behind the scenes but I think this Mark Thomas has also been a big waste of money, or at least isn’t having an impact, because the recruitment has been poor. We’ve probably made Sonny Bradley the highest paid player in the division and dropped him after a couple of games - a long list of them with injury records have unsurprisingly spent the season injured. It’s a massive mess, whether that’s down to Thomas or Warne, I’m not sure, but certainly no creative approach has been taken. We almost exclusively signed players with Championship experience in the summer, deciding on paying out bigger wages for players on the downswing of their careers, over properly researching and scouting players on the upswing of their career. 

You also have a coaching staff who aren’t really recognised with coaching players, so maybe the short-term, experienced professional approach we take is because we can’t trust these guys to coach up players in the first place? I don’t know. Either way you look at it, I don’t think it’s a setup for a successful football club. 

[Donegal Ram]

27 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Still can't really understand how come Clowes gets in new 'reputable' Academy staff, but chased after Warne as first team manager. 

Whilst I really didn't want to watch two seasons in league 1, we were meant to be rebuilding. And whatever some people think he's not making the most of our older Academy players either. 

Be glad when the window is shut.

#COYR

With the current situation at the club it should have been a natural reaction to blood some youngsters. Not given any a chance to show what they can do in the first team apart from Brown's 5 minutes here and there. They would get more patience from the crowd if given this chance. 

We know that the current set up with Bird and Hourihane in midfield isnt really working but, if one was dropped and replaced by robinson who is more of a combative midfieder then it would appear that warne is addressing the situation. 

Older journeymen with injury records aint the answer.