HS2 northern leg to Manchester cancelled

[Gaspode]

I wonder what they'll do to all the works that have already started? Around the A38 near Lichfiled/Streethay, there's a huge amount of work been going on which I assume is no longer required. All that money and inconvenience for the locals (and folk using the A38) - and all (it would appear) for nothing.....

[Stive Pesley]

31 minutes ago, SSD said:

The French get around this by essentially paying people compensation for the inconvenience which in turn is far cheaper than trying to manoeuvre around the problem

Another thing that makes it slightly easier in France is that the country is roughly 3 times bigger than the UK - but with a similar population. In other words their population centres are spread much further apart, leaving bigger gaps to run new train route through

 

I was on the phone to a friend earlier who works on the HS2 project and he says the announcement today is a farce. There are zero plans for any of the "Network North" stuff that they are saying will happen instead of HS2. It's all just fag packet made up on the spot as a justification for cancelling HS2. The idea that any of these replacement projects can go from "no plan" to "full plan" and then "implementation" in anything like a timescale measured in decades is pure fantasy

At this point in the HS2 debacle, regardless of what a mess of planning and overspend it's been -  it's more idiotic to give up now than to carry on and finish it I'm afraid. Otherwise you just replace it with even more poorly planned over-spending projects that take an age to achieve

 

 

[Elwood P Dowd]

All the people down south know those “up north” all have flat caps and keep whippets. 😏

I was never really convinced that all the money spent for a 20 min reduction in journey time was money well spent. Sometimes these projects become “The Emperors  new clothes” everyone knows it’s a bad idea but everyone is frightened to be the first one to point it out.

The planners must have had a really good laugh when they came up with the East Midlands hub, its placement is inconvenient to everyone the hub is supposed to serve. 😳😳

 

[sage]

2 hours ago, Gaspode said:

Trying not to stray into politics, but don't discount the fact that this decision appears to have been made purely in order to cause problems for the opposition - Labout have supported HS2 so far, but they now (before the next election) have to commit to finish it (to Manchester) though they will probably then need to pay for it with that same money that has now conveniently been promised to other Northern areas (a lot of whom couldn't give a toss about whether HS2 gets to Manchester) - and that's a lot of voters they might upset.

Sunak is more than aware that the money he's promising to the North is just that  - a politician's promise (i.e. meaningless) - made by a politician that knows he won't be around long enough to actually deliver - even if his ruse helps him fluke a win at the next election....

This is what it's all about. It's not governing, it's laying booby traps. 

[Poynton ram]

Would far rather money be spent on improving the line from Manchester to Leeds at a fraction of the cost. As more people work from home and with   Technology / TEAMS etc surely demand for rail travel will reduce in time anyway.  Spend the money on the NHS, more deserving

Edited October 4, 2023 by Poynton ram

[CWC1983]

The original reason for HS2 was to clear the existing rail lines for freight, which in turn should have taken Vehicles off the motorway network. 

In theory, less traffic, less pollution and goods getting from North to South and vice versa in a quicker time. 

It's been financially mis managed from the start. 

They've been paying machine operators and ground workers almost double what our equivalents get paid. We lost loads of people lured by the £ and less responsibility.  Can't blame them for going. 

 

 

[Boycie]

4 hours ago, Anag Ram said:

No trouble 

 

I do, I do I do Mrs Fawlty!

[Grumpy Git]

3 hours ago, Gaspode said:

I wonder what they'll do to all the works that have already started? Around the A38 near Lichfiled/Streethay, there's a huge amount of work been going on which I assume is no longer required. All that money and inconvenience for the locals (and folk using the A38) - and all (it would appear) for nothing.....

That is Hansacre junction, where HS2 will connect to the legacy WCML (West Coast Main Line) to Crewe

[Ram-Alf]

1 hour ago, Poynton ram said:

Would far rather money be spent on improving the line from Manchester to Leeds at a fraction of the cost. As more people work from home and with   Technology / TEAMS etc surely demand for rail travel will reduce in time anyway.  Spend the money on the NHS, more deserving

As in giving nurses a decent wage, Or just piss more money on managers, Under managers, HR, Solicitors, Equipment where the price quadruples as it's a Government enterprise 😡

[Stive Pesley]

Interesting map of all the existing and planned high speed rail lines in Europe.

Embarassing

Edited October 4, 2023 by Stive Pesley

[PistoldPete]

1 hour ago, Grumpy Git said:

That is Hansacre junction, where HS2 will connect to the legacy WCML (West Coast Main Line) to Crewe

And still will so that bit will not be wasted. 

[PistoldPete]

10 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Interesting map of all the existing and planned high speed rail lines in Europe.

Embarassing

so has HS2 to Birmingham been scrapped too? . I must have missed that bit. And HS1 seems to end up in the Isle of Sheppey. 

[Rev]

8 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

so has HS2 to Birmingham been scrapped too? . I must have missed that bit. And HS1 seems to end up in the Isle of Sheppey. 

They're building a migrant detention centre on the Isle of Sheppey, ready for the hurricane of illegals heading for London.

[alexxxxx]

The network north stuff brought out by sunak is a con - it says they'll bring a tram to Manchester airport... there has been one to the airport for nearly 10years.

HS2 is sold on the journey times because it was seemed that the public couldn't possibly understand the wider benefits to the network. I think that's it's downfall - people needed to be sold its benefits to their local area.

The whole cancellation makes me angry.

[EtoileSportiveDeDerby]

6 hours ago, BaaLocks said:

I understand all of that but the question I don't understand is how they can build a similar length project in France for €8bn in five years and ours cost five, six, seven, eight times that and will not be ready for another ten years. I just don't understand the reason for the huge differential.

My uncle was quite high up in the SNCF, the French state railways. Every time there were budget reviews and cuts were discussed or a sniff of privatisation, his stock answer was always if you want to make it more expensive and not working,  look at how it's done in England. 

[Grumpy Git]

Biggest con was the privatisation by Major, (FFS even Thatcher thought that was a step too far)!

As soon as it was announced there was a stop to any new rolling stock procurement, which resulted in all the UK train manufacturers going to the wall or being brought on the cheap by overseas companies, (like BREL getting swallowed-up by ABB). And they now have the gall to say we need to start manufacturing again in the UK.

A lot of our new trains come from Spain (CAF) and they're crap built like a 1970's Skoda.

[uttoxram75]

You can build infrastructure to either benefit the country as a whole or the stock market. You can't do both.

Long term benefit for the people who live and work here or short term gains for investment bankers/corporations.

 

[Archied]

Scrap it , it would hardly ever run because of strikes anyway 

[therealhantsram]

13 hours ago, sage said:

This is what it's all about. It's not governing, it's laying booby traps. 

Came here to post exactly the same but you beat me too it. 

Same goes for all the other recent policy announcements. ULEZ. LTNs. ICE to EV switchover. Gas boiler ban. And so on.

[sage]

3 minutes ago, therealhantsram said:

Came here to post exactly the same but you beat me too it. 

Same goes for all the other recent policy announcements. ULEZ. LTNs. ICE to EV switchover. Gas boiler ban. And so on.

Yep half of which is a load of reactionary, populist claptrap they don't even believe in and will quietly abandon after the election.

We now have to abandon the countries largest infrastructure project to repair pot holes and it's genius according to some.