Ruben Rodrigues - Joined Oxford United

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

14 minutes ago, Carnero said:

If this lads name were Fred Smith, most of those melting down on us "missing out on him" would have been melting down over us being linked with non-league players 😴

This. He's got a fancy name so people assume he's a fancy player. He might be good. He might be crap. We might have been in for him. We might not have been in for him.

Ultimately at this point I don't really care. He's not our player, not our problem. 

[Foreveram]

33 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

I am absolutely shtting myself. Without Ruben Rodrigues, we pretty much have no club left. This is worse than where we were last June. At least then, we still had hope we could be saved. Rubes has joined Oxford, he won't be coming to us. Game over.

Calm down, we still have time to rescue the season🤞🏻

[Ambitious]

6 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

Do we?. Was he ever even on the radar for us?.

Warne went to watch the play-off final and the player was well known within the local area. Regardless of how they came to their assessment it is absolutely undeniable that we at least did homework on Notts County (& Chesterfield), therefore Rodrigues - which is a good thing. 

[Caerphilly Ram]

1 hour ago, Jubbs said:

Leigh Curtis is the most reliable and he said in his Q&A we were certainly interested. Warne went to watch him play in the play offs and was interested whilst at Rotherham, I think it's fair to say we were interested.

This was Leigh’s response when asked directly about Rodrigues during the Q&A he held on 31/05/23;

If we’re taking Leigh as being the most reliable source then the fact he has called most of the linked names as “entertaining” suggests to me all the links and rumours out there are wide of the mark. He doesn’t say we were certainly interested, he said Warne watched him during his time at Rotherham, that he knows a couple of clubs are/were interested, and that Derby scouted the national league so it’s likely Rodrigues name came up. Nowhere does he definitively say Derby were in for him. Dominic Dietrich is saying the same.
People really need to see past the nature of silly season, as a big club looking to continue our rebuild this summer we will be linked with plenty of names, it doesn’t mean we are actually looking to sign them. The only name genuinely discussed that we’ve missed out on is McGoldrick’s renewal and potentially Roberts, but even Warne’s comments on that we’re late last season with a caveat about what league we would be in, so perhaps Roberts always intended to chance his arm on a championship side.

All that matters is come the first day of the season and definitely the final day of the transfer window we have a stronger squad than we currently do, until that point it’s really not worth getting worked up about. Even those of you who are vehemently anti-Warne, he isn’t going anywhere this summer so even your own personal wish to see him gone has to wait on the recruitment and building of the side, then the subsequent results. There’s simply no need for the ongoing panic from certain quarters when players we may or may not have an interest in sign elsewhere. Even if we miss a target, there’ll be another. 

[Srg]

1 hour ago, Ambitious said:

That's the point - if he goes to Oxford and does well then we have to ask questions of the recruitment team. They need to prove they can evaluate talent properly hence why we need to wait and see how he does before having an appropriate opinion. If he does poorly then you have to praise them for not going after a player who would've ultimately offered nothing. 

Don't understand this point. If this is the stance you take, you may as well say this with any signing made from League 2 and below into League 1 or higher.

[Carnero]

14 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

This was Leigh’s response when asked directly about Rodrigues during the Q&A he held on 31/05/23;

If we’re taking Leigh as being the most reliable source then the fact he has called most of the linked names as “entertaining” suggests to me all the links and rumours out there are wide of the mark. He doesn’t say we were certainly interested, he said Warne watched him during his time at Rotherham, that he knows a couple of clubs are/were interested, and that Derby scouted the national league so it’s likely Rodrigues name came up. Nowhere does he definitively say Derby were in for him. Dominic Dietrich is saying the same.
People really need to see past the nature of silly season, as a big club looking to continue our rebuild this summer we will be linked with plenty of names, it doesn’t mean we are actually looking to sign them. The only name genuinely discussed that we’ve missed out on is McGoldrick’s renewal and potentially Roberts, but even Warne’s comments on that we’re late last season with a caveat about what league we would be in, so perhaps Roberts always intended to chance his arm on a championship side.

All that matters is come the first day of the season and definitely the final day of the transfer window we have a stronger squad than we currently do, until that point it’s really not worth getting worked up about. Even those of you who are vehemently anti-Warne, he isn’t going anywhere this summer so even your own personal wish to see him gone has to wait on the recruitment and building of the side, then the subsequent results. There’s simply no need for the ongoing panic from certain quarters when players we may or may not have an interest in sign elsewhere. Even if we miss a target, there’ll be another. 

Stop with your factual sources that don't fit a person's pre-conceived narrative, it's not becoming.

[Comrade 86]

Quite liked the look of the lad to be honest, but either he rather oddly preferred Oxford to Derby as his next career progression, or the rather more likely scenario, that we didn't even make him an offer.

Quite what some folk are getting so upset about is beyond me.

 

[Ambitious]

4 minutes ago, Srg said:

Don't understand this point. If this is the stance you take, you may as well say this with any signing made from League 2 and below into League 1 or higher.

You could & probably should. 

As it comes to player evaluation - any player signed that go on to do well that we could've been in the market for should be an indictment on the club. Any player that we sign and ultimately fails to perform is also an indictment on the club. 

In the most simplistic way, any player who comes into this division, who we could've signed, and does well - 

It comes down to three points - 

1) why weren't we looking at them? Are we casting the net wide enough - if a rival in this league was able to scout him then why weren't we? A failure on the technical scouting and recruitment side most likely. 

2) we were aware of the player, but after review deemed him not good - well, he's gone on to perform very well so what processes were followed out to come to the conclusion that player X wasn't good enough. 

3) we were aware of the player, we did want him to sign but couldn't get him through the door - why is another team in this division able to win a player's signature over our own. A higher division, more money, etc, fine. We then have to look at how we sell the club to players. 

If the above 3 processes are fine tuned, along with coaching, then we should never make a poor signing and we shouldn't ever let a player slip through the net and join a rival that we would've been useful to us. 

My point with Rodrigues: according to Leigh, we weren't interested, which is fine but if he does turn out to be a very good player at this level then we have failed on point 2. If we were interested then we've failed on point 3. We know that point 1 was covered as Warne went to watch the National League final. 

[Srg]

4 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

You could & probably should. 

As it comes to player evaluation - any player signed that go on to do well that we could've been in the market for should be an indictment on the club. Any player that we sign and ultimately fails to perform is also an indictment on the club. 

In the most simplistic way, any player who comes into this division, who we could've signed, and does well - 

It comes down to three points - 

1) why weren't we looking at them? Are we casting the net wide enough - if a rival in this league was able to scout him then why weren't we? A failure on the technical scouting and recruitment side most likely. 

2) we were aware of the player, but after review deemed him not good - well, he's gone on to perform very well so what processes were followed out to come to the conclusion that player X wasn't good enough. 

3) we were aware of the player, we did want him to sign but couldn't get him through the door - why is another team in this division able to win a player's signature over our own. A higher division, more money, etc, fine. We then have to look at how we sell the club to players. 

If the above 3 processes are fine tuned, along with coaching, then we should never make a poor signing and we shouldn't ever let a player slip through the net and join a rival that we would've been useful to us. 

My point with Rodrigues: according to Leigh, we weren't interested, which is fine but if he does turn out to be a very good player at this level then we have failed on point 2. If we were interested then we've failed on point 3. We know that point 1 was covered as Warne went to watch the National League final. 

I get that, but hindsight is a wonderful thing. If he's a success at Oxford, there's no guarantee he would here - differing systems, pressure, expectations etc. 

Similarly, he could bomb at Oxford but could've been great here. Football just isn't that straight forward.

[Caerphilly Ram]

6 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

You could & probably should. 

As it comes to player evaluation - any player signed that go on to do well that we could've been in the market for should be an indictment on the club. Any player that we sign and ultimately fails to perform is also an indictment on the club. 

In the most simplistic way, any player who comes into this division, who we could've signed, and does well - 

It comes down to three points - 

1) why weren't we looking at them? Are we casting the net wide enough - if a rival in this league was able to scout him then why weren't we? A failure on the technical scouting and recruitment side most likely. 

2) we were aware of the player, but after review deemed him not good - well, he's gone on to perform very well so what processes were followed out to come to the conclusion that player X wasn't good enough. 

3) we were aware of the player, we did want him to sign but couldn't get him through the door - why is another team in this division able to win a player's signature over our own. A higher division, more money, etc, fine. We then have to look at how we sell the club to players. 

If the above 3 processes are fine tuned, along with coaching, then we should never make a poor signing and we shouldn't ever let a player slip through the net and join a rival that we would've been useful to us. 

My point with Rodrigues: according to Leigh, we weren't interested, which is fine but if he does turn out to be a very good player at this level then we have failed on point 2. If we were interested then we've failed on point 3. We know that point 1 was covered as Warne went to watch the National League final. 

Isn’t it more a case of being objective when it comes to recruitment? Less “why”, more who, what, where, when, how;

Who is available?

Who are we interested in?

What would they offer the team?

What would they cost?

How would they fit into the system?

How would they fit into the social dynamics?

Where do they live?

Where do they play?

When are they available?

When does their contract expire?

One player being a good signing for one team doesn’t automatically mean they’re a good signing for another team. 

Edited June 13, 2023 by Caerphilly Ram

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

25 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

Quite liked the look of the lad to be honest, but either he rather oddly preferred Oxford to Derby as his next career progression, or the rather more likely scenario, that we didn't even make him an offer.

Quite what some folk are getting so upset about is beyond me.

 

We might have approached him with the "you aren't going to just walk in to the team, you will have to graft for it because we are going to have competition for places all over the pitch" kind of message. Warne has said he will be honest with players on that front.

Perhaps Oxford, having only narrowly missed out on going down might be willing to offer him guarantees of first team football that we aren't willing to match.

I agree with you. No point getting worked up. Not every player we make an offer to will accept it. The sooner people get that in to their heads the less stressed out they will be. We don't have some divine right to be front of the queue.

Edited June 13, 2023 by JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta

[Ambitious]

10 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

Isn’t it more a case of being objective when it comes to recruitment? Less “why”, more who, what, where, when, how;

Who is available?

Who are we interested in?

What would they offer the team?

What would they cost?

How would they fit into the system?

How would they fit into the social dynamics?

Where do they live?

Where do they play?

When are they available?

When does their contract expire?

One player being a good signing for one team doesn’t automatically mean they’re a good signing for another team. 

Agreed and that's part of a the nuance of scouting that can't be derived from a data file. It still allows us to fine tune processes and keep our recruitment team on their feet.

If Ruben Rodrigues has a nice season, i.e. 5 or 6 goals and a few assists, then it makes no odds. If he has a bad season then it shows that however we came to the point of saying no, we don't want him in that instance was correct. If he has a good season then we need to review what we thought he wouldn't be able to do and how do we amend our procedure so we don't miss on the next player. 

It's no exact science, but equally there's always methods of improving your chances. The likes of Brentford and Brighton are brought up a lot, simply because they've got an elite-level technical scouting department that allows them to cast a wide net. The technical scouting department wasn't mastered day one, it was fine tuned over time and will continue to do so.  

Edited June 13, 2023 by Ambitious

[strawhillram]

12 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

Isn’t it more a case of being objective when it comes to recruitment? Less “why”, more who, what, where, when, how;

Who is available?

Who are we interested in?

What would they offer the team?

What would they cost?

How would they fit into the system?

How would they fit into the social dynamics?

Where do they live?

Where do they play?

When are they available?

When does their contract expire?

One player being a good signing for one team doesn’t automatically mean they’re a good signing for another team. 

Why so many questions?

[Caerphilly Ram]

1 minute ago, strawhillram said:

Why so many questions?

Why not? 

[YorkshireRam]

1 hour ago, Scott129 said:

I find it hard to believe we weren't in for Roberts, personally.

But I agree with your overall sentiment.

I've had the same flighty feeling about it the last few days, especially since the McGoldrick news, but then I had to kind of rationalize with myself.

Our transfer policy has entirely changed now. New manager, new head of recruitment, and the first proper window in 3 years where the club can spend transfer fees- that's a lot of change, and involving new faces who need time to settle. No leaks as well means it feels very 'empty' right now compared to the swathes of rumours we're used to reading, I think this is where the panic is coming from:

Not signing who we're linked with -> not being linked with anyone else -> Panic!

Whereas I suspect the club is identifying targets carefully, not leaking them, and we simply haven't even heard about our #1 targets yet. The 'not hearing anything' bit is probably actually positive, but because we're not used to it, it feels negative. I'm waiting another month or so before I actually start judging anything. 

[nogbad van 50]

33 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

Isn’t it more a case of being objective when it comes to recruitment? Less “why”, more who, what, where, when, how;

Who is available?

Who are we interested in?

What would they offer the team?

What would they cost?

How would they fit into the system?

How would they fit into the social dynamics?

Where do they live?

Where do they play?

When are they available?

When does their contract expire?

One player being a good signing for one team doesn’t automatically mean they’re a good signing for another team. 

To us optimists and realists that post sums it up rather well .To the restless pessimists out there it'll be "bah humbug" time!

[Steve How Hard?]

A Notts County fan I know reckons he was a good player on his day but inconsistent too. He didn't seem too perturbed he was leaving.

Sounds very much like a poor mans Tom Lawrence. Will be interesting to see how he gets on at Oxford. 

[nogbad van 50]

https://twitter.com/domjdietrich/status/1668595830452830211?s=46&t=R6su2CgZvxtv6dOp2JXDQg

[Comrade 86]

22 minutes ago, nogbad van 50 said:

https://twitter.com/domjdietrich/status/1668595830452830211?s=46&t=R6su2CgZvxtv6dOp2JXDQg

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Ambitious said:

3) we were aware of the player, we did want him to sign but couldn't get him through the door 

Surely a rigorous pound-shedding pre-season training program would have made the difference there though?