V Shrewsbury Town (H) 4th March 15.00

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

I like the pun. I suspect the 3 sides he took up were less footballers, and more athletes, able to physically battle their way out of the league, and keep running as he demands for a full 90 minutes match after match. He is at risk of completely tiring out some decent footballers at the business end of the season.

That has been a risk since he took over given our resources. I think he has been very aware of that from what he has said.  I think he has been managing the risk with his use of substitutes and the two changes yesterday I think were influenced by that. If we have ensured a play-off place with two, three or four games to spare that will give him further room for rotation and decrease the physical demands on the players most at risk for the rest of the competition. If it is the current four teams in the play-off positions who go into that competition in May, they have similar records in terms of points taken so far against other teams in the top six; Bolton have taken seven points while Derby, Barnsley and Ipswich have each taken eight. On that basis I don't think any of them can have an expectation much beyond 25% of being the eventual winner. That for me is our reality. But Warne and his staff do have an advantage over their competitors - they have the experience of winning the Division One play-offs

I would be extremely surprised if Sheffield Wednesday slipped up now; but for what it is worth they have taken nine points to date against the other top six teams. If we are in the play-offs, I hope that Plymouth don't slip back because at the moment they have taken a very impressive 17 points against their closest five competitors.

The vast majority of us have never viewed promotion this season as our right or a must-do. It's good though that we are still competing with some prospect and real hope of being the third team to go up in May. We have to be positive while we are still in the cut and not think of the negatives.

 

[Ambitious]

One of the easiest halves of football we’ve had for years, but the players must’ve felt that on the pitch. They came out, no doubt after being read the riot act, whilst we expected a similarly easy second half. 15 minutes of half arsed play, we’d undone all our good play from the first half. We will play worse and win this season, but I do worry about the lack of bottle in this team - Wycombe, Barnsley and Shrewsbury have all shown somewhat of a soft underbelly in recent weeks. 

A lot of football left to get it right, but but I wouldn’t be putting a lot of money on us getting it promoted through the playoffs on current showings. Not quite ready to throw the towel in, but I think it will be difficult - especially given how awful we are away from home. 

[Rammy03]

31 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

One of the easiest halves of football we’ve had for years, but the players must’ve felt that on the pitch. They came out, no doubt after being read the riot act, whilst we expected a similarly easy second half. 15 minutes of half arsed play, we’d undone all our good play from the first half. We will play worse and win this season, but I do worry about the lack of bottle in this team - Wycombe, Barnsley and Shrewsbury have all shown somewhat of a soft underbelly in recent weeks. 

A lot of football left to get it right, but but I wouldn’t be putting a lot of money on us getting it promoted through the playoffs on current showings. Not quite ready to throw the towel in, but I think it will be difficult - especially given how awful we are away from home. 

We're going through our bad spell. Every team has it. I think a lot of fans are reading too much into it and are being overly negative. If we finish in the playoffs we've had a really good season and have just as much chance at promotion as the others.

[Anag Ram]

21 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

One of the easiest halves of football we’ve had for years, but the players must’ve felt that on the pitch. They came out, no doubt after being read the riot act, whilst we expected a similarly easy second half. 15 minutes of half arsed play, we’d undone all our good play from the first half. We will play worse and win this season, but I do worry about the lack of bottle in this team - Wycombe, Barnsley and Shrewsbury have all shown somewhat of a soft underbelly in recent weeks. 

A lot of football left to get it right, but but I wouldn’t be putting a lot of money on us getting it promoted through the playoffs on current showings. Not quite ready to throw the towel in, but I think it will be difficult - especially given how awful we are away from home. 

I find it difficult to see who the captain is on the pitch.

With the wealth of experience in the team you’d expect them to get the players together and rollock them.

The droop in shoulders was evident when Shrewsbury equalised.

We need last year’s spirit back.

The talent is there, so if we get the focus right we can beat anyone.

[Jourdan]

3 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

Good post and I gave you a like. When you put it like that, it’s a whole lot more comforting. However, in the interests of balance and to keep our feet on the ground, if, on Tuesday, we lose at Plymouth (quite possible) and Wycombe win at home against Fleetwood (more than probable) they are only 4 points behind but with a game in hand. Obviously if they win that game in hand then the gap is a very uncomfortable 1 point.

Six more wins sounds like enough but we’ll need to win probably at least a couple away from home. I know managers don’t do it (or say they don’t, they quite rightly would say they target every game for a win), but we probably need to be targeting home wins against Fleetwood, Forest Green and Burton (Ipswich and Portsmouth will be tough) and Oxford, Forest Green and Bristol or Exeter away. Wycombe would then need to win 8. They have 5 relative easy home games so they’ll need to pick up 3 on the road (Burton, Morecambe and Cambridge?). 
 

The next two weeks will be interesting as Wycombe play their game in hand the week after next. If things done go well I rather fear a very nervous last day when we play at Wednesday and Wycombe play at Portsmouth. Strong opposition for both of us but neither are likely to have anything to play for by then.

I’ll keep the faith and, as you say, now is not the time to start slagging off either PW or the players. 

I am not saying Wycombe can’t catch us. This is football and anything can happen. All four teams in the play-offs still have work to do. Look at Bolton, for instance. They have 10 games left and they are only two points better off than us.

Wycombe are in a similar position to where we were in relation to Plymouth six games ago. We were already looking at our fixtures and crossing off the routine home wins and anticipating the other team would wobble. That didn’t quite turn out as we expected. Sometimes the old adage one game at a time rings very true.

We are going to lose games and drop points between now and the end of the season but so too will Wycombe and the two or three others queuing up.

I just think it’s no time to panic. I would say there are still 8 very winnable games for us and 4 games that may not be favourable for us but will come down to which team turns up on the day and if that’s us, we stand a good chance.

I wouldn’t write us off yet.

[PistoldPete]

54 minutes ago, Brailsford Ram said:

That has been a risk since he took over given our resources. I think he has been very aware of that from what he has said.  I think he has been managing the risk with his use of substitutes and the two changes yesterday I think were influenced by that. If we have ensured a play-off place with two, three or four games to spare that will give him further room for rotation and decrease the physical demands on the players most at risk for the rest of the competition. If it is the current four teams in the play-off positions who go into that competition in May, they have similar records in terms of points taken so far against other teams in the top six; Bolton have taken seven points while Derby, Barnsley and Ipswich have each taken eight. On that basis I don't think any of them can have an expectation much beyond 25% of being the eventual winner. That for me is our reality. But Warne and his staff do have an advantage over their competitors - they have the experience of winning the Division One play-offs

I would be extremely surprised if Sheffield Wednesday slipped up now; but for what it is worth they have taken nine points to date against the other top six teams. If we are in the play-offs, I hope that Plymouth don't slip back because at the moment they have taken a very impressive 17 points against their closest five competitors.

The vast majority of us have never viewed promotion this season as our right or a must-do. It's good though that we are still competing with some prospect and real hope of being the third team to go up in May. We have to be positive while we are still in the cut and not think of the negatives.

 

Plymouth have lost their best two players, so past form against the top sides might count for nothing. They will probably still beat us on Tuesday our away form is pretty poo still. But over two legs I think we would still have a good chance against them. 

[Ramarena]

I think some of our fans really don’t appreciate how things work in this division. 

There seems to be this idea that we just play some possession football and we can win and rest a bit, but you’d probably find yesterdays point would turn into zero points.

It really isn’t that simple. Have you seen the way the opposition work, battle, timewaste, even cheat in more extreme cases?

The only way to succeed is to compete, look at the form teams at the moment, Sheff Wed and Barnsley, they are relentless till the final minute, they mix it in with some decent football, but they never stop, or even slowdown.

Its the formula for success in this division and we are/have become fairly good at it, we sadly just don’t have the squad for it at present due to the EFL business plan, the cup run didn’t help either.

Warne has got a tough job on keeping the keeping them fit and keeping the intensity high in a small squad with a big quality drop off outside the main starting eleven. He’s doing a decent job of it all things considered.

[DiggerB]

2 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

At the very least, it's an unconscious bias due to the long term EFL/media assault on our club during the stadium/amortisation saga, which then changed to tax dodging when exiting administration.

Nah, it's the "They docked us 21 points" chant 25 times a match. Turn it off now, eh!

[PistoldPete]

2 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

I am not saying Wycombe can’t catch us. This is football and anything can happen. All four teams in the play-offs still have work to do. Look at Bolton, for instance. They have 10 games left and they are only two points better off than us.

Wycombe are in a similar position to where we were in relation to Plymouth six games ago. We were already looking at our fixtures and crossing off the routine home wins and anticipating the other team would wobble. That didn’t quite turn out as we expected. Sometimes the old adage one game at a time rings very true.

We are going to lose games and drop points between now and the end of the season but so too will Wycombe and the two or three others queuing up.

I just think it’s no time to panic. I would say there are still 8 very winnable games for us and 4 games that may not be favourable for us but will come down to which team turns up on the day and if that’s us, we stand a good chance.

I wouldn’t write us off yet.

8 winnable and 4 not favourable out of 12 .. similar to how our last six looked 4 home games against lesser opposition plus the two "unfavourable " games. We ended  up with two wins, two draws and two defeats. 8 points If that is replicated across the next 12 that's 16 more points 77 in all. I think the play off spot would be in the balance depends on Wycombe then. 

[LeedsCityRam]

2 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

Wouldn't you expect that stat though for any team? That's like why the teams are where they are in the table as they generally succumb to being beaten by teams above them in the league which then dictates their league position?

Not sure what that "stat" tells us other then the lower half teams are there because they get beaten by more teams more frequently above them and the teams higher in the league the converse is true. 

If you're now also starting to say that our head to head record against teams which we will likely to face in the playoffs will now determine the outcome if we do get there then really that's a step too far. 

Textbook 'nothing to see here folks' reply this

To recap - I've provided a summary of Warne's record against sides in both halves of the table to get some detail behind the 4 losses in 25 games stat. This clearly shows the vast majority of his points are won against lower half teams & that this is flattering his record.

In reply, you've;

• Reacted with a laughing emoji to my post - after all, what kind of idiot uses logic & stats to back up his argument?!!
• Disingenuously missed the point about record v top half teams compared to bottom half teams. I did clearly mention in my post you might expect a better record against lesser sides. The point however is would you expect a team looking to finish top 6 to average less than 1 point a game against top half teams? That's relegation form but then you probably realised that awkward truth
• Suggested I might be 'starting to say that our head to head record against the top 6' will determine whether we make top 6. Which I didn't say & clearly didn't mean. Nice strawman though

For the avoidance of doubt, if we get a result at Plymouth Tuesday night I will a) be delighted & b) it may start to make me question my impression of Warne & his managerial ability. This is how to use evidence to support a position - in direct contrast to your desperate attempts to obfuscate/belittle opinions that differ to yours because you backed Warne from Day 1 & now your ego is very much attached to that position.

[OssieEnd]

Ok it's the play offs then.Warne put us up within striking range of the autos,but just to stay there we had to keep on winning. And winning. Wednesday and Plymouth dont lose very often. Our relatively poor start has cost us. No blame on PW.

But we should be play offs bound now.Yesterday just closed the lid on an extremely unlikely top two finish, so we should all stay positive.

The reasons to get out of this league  ASAP are ... the refs .. ( criminally bad) ..the opposition ( simulation, cheating , time wasting, trying to get players sent off, honestly it's worse in this tier than in the two tiers above ! ..something I didn't know ) and financial. Plus getting Derby on a stream now it hardwork as L1 is invisible. And we should be visible. We are a big club.

We move on. Just also thinking about "leaders" on the pitch when the rhythm and momentum on the pitch swings to the opposition. Yesterday that was lacking.

[May Contain Nuts]

38 minutes ago, Rammy03 said:

We're going through our bad spell. Every team has it.

Indeed they do, well nearly every team (still waiting on Sheff Weds).

Rotherham under Warne last season for instance, around this time. They went from 9 points clear at the top of the league on 1st March to 3rd place (3 pts behind 2nd, but with a game in hand) on 12th April. All documented in that podcast.

Thankfully (for them) they pulled through in the end but I'm not sure we would get away with such a dip.

[HorsforthRam]

For some posters there seems to be an under current of wariness with regards to PW style of play and his tactical abilities. Others seem to believe that his knowledge of this division means he knows a certain style of play is required to get out of it. Are the likes of Plymouth and Wednesday playing like PW’s Rotherham did when they got promoted?   

[Ghost of Clough]

3 hours ago, Blondest Goat said:

So if you were a ref you would allow that narrative to influence whether you thought someone had been fouled or not?   I wouldn't.

Do you understand what unconscious bias is?

2 hours ago, Jimbo Ram said:

What about the ref who gave us 2 pens in 1 game that were a bit dodgy, did he make a stand and not go along with the conspiracy ? Every time things go wrong or not quite to plan we get this back lash and talk of this ludicrous refereeing conspiracy which is just embarrassing. When we win the ref hardly gets a mention, strange that ?Was the decent woman referee we had not part of the conspiracy either? Will those who make a stand and are not biased against us be reprimanded ? 

I never said anything about a conspiracy or instructions from the EFL.

When referred to as a club which cheats, that will inevitably sit in the back of a person's mind. This WILL impact the decisions a ref makes during a game.

[angieram]

As I didn't see the incident clearly, when did Rooney clearly put two hands in Leahy's back? Was it before this footage started? 

Because in this clip he doesn't seem to make contact at all. He only puts his hands out when he starts to fall at the end. If anything, Leahy is fouling Fozzy.

 

[Comrade 86]

1 hour ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Textbook 'nothing to see here folks' reply this

To recap - I've provided a summary of Warne's record against sides in both halves of the table to get some detail behind the 4 losses in 25 games stat. This clearly shows the vast majority of his points are won against lower half teams & that this is flattering his record.

In reply, you've;

• Reacted with a laughing emoji to my post - after all, what kind of idiot uses logic & stats to back up his argument?!!
• Disingenuously missed the point about record v top half teams compared to bottom half teams. I did clearly mention in my post you might expect a better record against lesser sides. The point however is would you expect a team looking to finish top 6 to average less than 1 point a game against top half teams? That's relegation form but then you probably realised that awkward truth
• Suggested I might be 'starting to say that our head to head record against the top 6' will determine whether we make top 6. Which I didn't say & clearly didn't mean. Nice strawman though

For the avoidance of doubt, if we get a result at Plymouth Tuesday night I will a) be delighted & b) it may start to make me question my impression of Warne & his managerial ability. This is how to use evidence to support a position - in direct contrast to your desperate attempts to obfuscate/belittle opinions that differ to yours because you backed Warne from Day 1 & now your ego is very much attached to that position.

[Wayne1306]

12 minutes ago, angieram said:

As I didn't see the incident clearly, when did Rooney clearly put two hands in Leahy's back? Was it before this footage started? 

Because in this clip he doesn't seem to make contact at all. He only puts his hands out when he starts to fall at the end. If anything, Leahy is fouling Fozzy.

 

Angela, I hope this comes through, better view. Clear pen for me.

[kevinhectoring]

7 hours ago, DavesaRam said:

Or its both. Crewton points out how the ref applied the rules of the game differently to each side, especially in the second half. This is not a new phenomenon - it has been happening all season bar about 3 matches, and it has been a consistent match day feature ever since the EFL started to squeeze the trigger.

If the match officials only made occasional errors during a match, affecting both sides equally then you might have a point. I know we are all biased as possible, but they son’t inly make occasional mistakes, and they don’t affect the teams evenly. And this has been going on week in, week out, week in, week out for over 4 years now. 
 

There is nothing we can do about it. - Rick Parry and his cronies have been supplied with mountains of evidence of what us happening, and all he does is send out a patronising, condescending letter telling ys thst match officials are trained to the highest standards and all perform well. ?

All we can do is go out and try and beat the opposition whether their team has 11, 12, 13 or 14 players.

Dunno what to say. If each of our players made fewer errors than the ref we’d usually win. To err is human. The idea it’s a conspiracy is a paranoid aberration 

[Ram-Alf]

24 minutes ago, angieram said:

As I didn't see the incident clearly, when did Rooney clearly put two hands in Leahy's back? Was it before this footage started? 

Because in this clip he doesn't seem to make contact at all. He only puts his hands out when he starts to fall at the end. If anything, Leahy is fouling Fozzy.

 

Wow I take it back...Rooney didn't get a touch...simulation no Penalty...good spot Angie ??

[kevinhectoring]

8 minutes ago, Wayne1306 said:

Angela, I hope this comes through, better view. Clear pen for me.

Different, but identical to the M Mount pen in the World Cup