Ipswich v Derby (A) Matchday Thread - ‘and it’s live’

[Jayram]

58 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

The inference in your comment is quite clear. By implication therefore Warne is  not a good manager if he does not conform to the values you've quoted.

Sorry to disappoint but both Parker and Tuchel declined the exciting opportunity to manage our club when Warne joined. 

I didn’t want either. I wanted our chairman to give LR a bit longer to see if he could get the team he built from scratch in the summer to gell. Instead we’ve given a 4 year contract to someone whose style of football is completely at odds with what our current squad are used to. Personally I don’t rate Warne but I’m a ST holder so I will be there week in week out hoping that he stops trying to shoehorn players into his ‘system’ and plays to their strengths until he can sign the players that actually fit his style, whatever that is.

 

[Tyler Durden]

1 minute ago, Jayram said:

I didn’t want either. I wanted our chairman to give LR a bit longer to see if he could get the team he built from scratch in the summer to gell. Instead we’ve given a 4 year contract to someone whose style of football is completely at odds with what our current squad are used to. Personally I don’t rate Warne but I’m a ST holder so I will be there week in week out hoping that he stops trying to shoehorn players into his ‘system’ and plays to their strengths until he can sign the players that actually fit his style, whatever that is.

 

Maybe that's why Clowes gave Warne a 4 year contract as it's a long term project?

Everyone is assuming on here that Clowes is demanding we MUST get promoted this season and would like them to direct me to the articles where he's been quoted as saying that. 

[Dava75]

Was at the game last night. Ipswich were the best team without the ball that we have faced all season. Aggressive and sharp and so so quick to close down - giving our players no time to pick a pass and generally restricting our options - causing the panic and stray passes to happen both in defence and attack. I’d love us to press with that tempo but we just don’t have enough of the right kind of players presently. knight being out will definitely hurt us in this area.
 

I don’t think they were that great with the ball last night and didn’t create many clear cut chances - but they will be definitely up there come the end of the season because of the pace and aggression they have through out their team.

Disappointing but not really a surprise result. On to the next one….

 

 

[Jimbo Ram]

8 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Maybe that's why Clowes gave Warne a 4 year contract as it's a long term project?

Everyone is assuming on here that Clowes is demanding we MUST get promoted this season and would like them to direct me to the articles where he's been quoted as saying that. 

By removing Liam of his duties when we were 7th, logic tells me the expectation was the play offs, surely? We might achieve that ?

[Mrso]

6 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Maybe that's why Clowes gave Warne a 4 year contract as it's a long term project?

Everyone is assuming on here that Clowes is demanding we MUST get promoted this season and would like them to direct me to the articles where he's been quoted as saying that. 

Yet for me that's what never made sense.  Given PW's record he is not a manager the Club would seek out in the Championship.  Instead he is the manager to get us there.  But while Ipswich and Sunderland have taken 4 years (at least) to sort it out in League 1 surely that is not our intended timeframe any more than it was theirs.  DW was brought in to get us promoted quickly whether Clowes has said so or not and while he can probably improve things (for his style) in January, this is a League where the top teams get big points totals and we'll be well out of it I think.  (And I don't like his style BTW).

[Tyler Durden]

2 minutes ago, Mrso said:

But while Ipswich and Sunderland have taken 4 years (at least) to sort it out in League 1 surely that is not our intended timeframe any more than it was theirs.  DW was brought in to get us promoted quickly whether Clowes has said so or not and while he can probably improve things (for his style) in January, this is a League where the top teams get big points totals and we'll be well out of it I think.  (And I don't like his style BTW).

That's your opinion which you're touting as fact.

Show me the articles where Clowes has said he demands promotion this season - which you can't. 

[Crewton]

Burns was the only player that lifted Ipswich above the ordinary. Plymouth looked a far more impressive team to me. Ipswich put some dangerous crosses in, but 3 shots on target - one goal, one penalty and a deflection off their own player - was a poor return for supposed dominant home team. The game had 0-0 all over it until Curtis' error. I think they're a long way from a shoe-in for promotion on that display. It would have been interesting to see how they would have fared if the referee had done his job and sent off Evans for the kind of challenge that has seen us have a number of players sent off in recent seasons. 

Yet again we've seen abject performances by match officials who are simply not up to the job. If Evans isn't retrospectively disciplined for that challenge, it'll make a mockery of the system.

As for DCFC, I think that Warne needs to refine his preferred system a little to suit the players we have, until he gets the players he needs to make it work consistently, at least in away games against the better teams. We knew when they joined that NML and Barkhuizen left their previous clubs partly because they didn't enjoy playing as WBs and Barks in particular struggled with it last night. NML looks more comfortable with it, but it's undoubtedly stunted his attacking instincts. With Knight seemingly out for several weeks, I'm not sure how he's going to do it, or even if he has any intention to, but he needs to consider it. 

That said, our biggest problem last night was the basics of passing and control, which simply weren't good enough when we were in promising positions. The worst offenders are better than they showed last night. They now have four very winnable fixtures in which to show it. 

[Jimbo Ram]

8 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

That's your opinion which you're touting as fact.

Show me the articles where Clowes has said he demands promotion this season - which you can't. 

What do you think his remit is then, 8th….10th……we were in 7th when he took over from Liam ?

[nottingram]

Ipswich to me just looked like a team who have been allowed to develop under their manager albeit they also had an excellent defensive record under him last season while they were doing so.

So I think the most frustrating thing about us is that I have no real issue with giving Warne time and I don’t want us to become a club that fires and hires managers again but I can already tell that when it is bad under Warne, it is going to be really bad. We play a style where if you are not winning games you really have nothing to fall back on.

The players look confused and lacking in quality but these are all players who should be more than good enough for L1 ergo you have to wonder why that is.

Lincoln and Morecambe have both at least scored v Ipswich in their last two games, with Lincoln also winning. We barely looked like we even attempted to or went into the game believing we could.

[Magicman]

Sounds like we are missing Knight for a month and his energy in midfield. Korey Smith will be a good deputy but we need someone with ability to go box to box ! 

[Blondest Goat]

1 hour ago, jameso said:

I think we’re all just a little frustrated that he hasn’t propelled us to the top of the league in the five minutes he’s been here

I don't think it's that at all for most.  People just want to watch their team and be entertained.   What's entertaining about a team that literally cannot string 4 passes together?  Since the manager change results haven't improved and the footballs got worse.  People are entitled to be unhappy about that.

[unclej]

Keogh coming on with 30secs of added time to go was his middle finger to a club that supported him when it shouldn't. 

[Crewton]

2 minutes ago, Blondest Goat said:

I don't think it's that at all for most.  People just want to watch their team and be entertained.   What's entertaining about a team that literally cannot string 4 passes together?  Since the manager change results haven't improved and the footballs got worse.  People are entitled to be unhappy about that.

It's been 4 league games, 3 of them away, two of which we've won. That's 6 points. Under Rosenior, we were getting on average 2.4 points per home game and 0.5 per away game, which equates to 4 points from those games, rounded up. So there HAS been an improvement in results and, let's be honest, plenty of people weren't in love with Rosenoir's slow build up and high-risk playing out from the back. 

Warne obviously isn't an instant fix, but he's hardly been the raging disaster that some are suggesting. Fans need to show some patience. I know it's not a fashionable trait in these days of instant gratification, but I think it's necessary in our situation. 

[Mucker1884]

40 minutes ago, Mrso said:

Yet for me that's what never made sense.  Given PW's record he is not a manager the Club would seek out in the Championship.  Instead he is the manager to get us there.  But while Ipswich and Sunderland have taken 4 years (at least) to sort it out in League 1 surely that is not our intended timeframe any more than it was theirs.  DW was brought in to get us promoted quickly whether Clowes has said so or not and while he can probably improve things (for his style) in January, this is a League where the top teams get big points totals and we'll be well out of it I think.  (And I don't like his style BTW).

Wassall?

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, Blondest Goat said:

I don't think it's that at all for most.  People just want to watch their team and be entertained.   What's entertaining about a team that literally cannot string 4 passes together?  Since the manager change results haven't improved and the footballs got worse.  People are entitled to be unhappy about that.

I completely respect your opinion and it's probably the case that what floats my footballing boat doesn't float yours!

Yesterday was poor and not enjoyable. Cambridge and Accrington away (obviously inferior opposition compared to Ipswich) were really enjoyable and I would argue much better football than most of what we saw under Rosenior (I have no love for passing the ball round at the back for the sake of it (and having kittens with every close shave), and the only game I enjoyed in terms of football-plus-result was LR's last one vs Wycombe, unless counting the first half against Grimsby!)

[LeedsCityRam]

42 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

That's your opinion which you're touting as fact.

Show me the articles where Clowes has said he demands promotion this season - which you can't. 

He never said Clowes had publicly demanded promotion. He quite rightly made the observation that in removing a manager who had us in 7th place after a substanial rebuild, it would be bizarre to bring a new manager to comfortably accept a position below that mark. Warne has to achieve top 6 as a minimum or this season is a failure - the club & the media constantly harp on about his promotion record, thats why he's here.

Clearly you're on a mission to dampen down expectation but this point is going to be constantly brought up this season. I'd also warn you that this style of football is going to fast alienate a significant proportion of the fanbase who want us to play good football. Often heard from his fans on here that he would adapt his style to better quality players at Derby but I've seen no evidence of that so far. He in fact has just imposed his style on players ill-suited to his Rotherham demands.

Edited October 22, 2022 by LeedsCityRam

[Tyler Durden]

2 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Clearly you're on a mission to dampen down expectation but this point is going to be constantly brought up this season. I'd also warn you that this style of football is going to fast alienate a significant proportion of the fanbase who want us to play good football. Often heard from his fans on here that he would adapt his style to better quality players at Derby but I've seen no evidence of that so far. He in fact has just imposed his style on players ill-suited to his Rotherham demands.

Not at all I still believe that reaching the playoffs this season is within our gift. 

How significant is a significant proportion of our fanbase? Again that's your opinion but you're touting it as fact. No need to warn me as frankly it's not a concern for me even it might but true but again is conjecture and pure speculation on your part. 

Folks can bring anything up that's their prerogative - but just bear in mind that the more time they regurgitate the same line it doesn't add any more weight or make it any more valid than the first time it was mentioned - merely just serving to repeat the same entrenched viewpoint ad infinitum.

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

NML has been our main threat all season so I've got a good idea. Move him back where he's less effective. 

[DavesaRam]

10 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

That's not necessarily true though.

When he does have the ball if he's not passing it to the opposition then he's just not doing anything constructive with it or wasting passes. 

Not trying to single him out but how does he get a place in the team.

Which is a semi rhetorical question as it just illustrates how poor our squad is. Which is bugger all to do with Warne. 

Actually the problem is with us playing him as CDM. He has always been better playing further forwards, and comes alive when that happens. 
 

As is “the Derby Way”, knowing where a player performs best, we play him somewhere else. Bird, Sibley, Barkhuisen, NML, Vydra until his last half season, Kinkladze,  and so the list goes on. We’ve done this for years and years.

[Ram-Alf]

10 hours ago, duncanjwitham said:

But that’s the entire point. If you’re scrabbling around to put a squad together, you can’t afford to give one manager 10 games to build a squad, and then get a diametrically opposed manager in to build a completely different squad. Honestly, to suit Warne we probably need to get rid of at least Chester, Davies, Roberts, NML Barkhuizen, Hourihane, Bird, Dobbin, Thompson, McGoldrick and replace them with new players. That’s almost our entire summer transfer dealings in the bin. It’s insane.

One little caveat Duncan to an otherwise good post, He'd built a squad, It was the matter of play that irked some and 2 results that IMO was the catalyst for his non contract as fulltime manager...Plymouth and Lincoln and not a goal scored away from home, Time in football as we're aware is a very rare commodity ?