Mass Shooting at Texas Elementary School

[Anag Ram]

2 hours ago, TexasRam said:

Never got the right to bear arms argument. I had so many arguments when I was out there, we were the only family on the street not to own a fire arm, and they didn’t get it that without guns these mass shootings wouldn’t happen. The right to have a weapon was more important. 
Its so so sad, all those young lives lost. My kids had lessons on how to react should this happen when they were in school, like hide and be quiet etc, it was the norm that this would happen. The change needs to be huge and quick, sadly I can’t see it happening. 

When do we ever here a story that says thankfully the shooter was foiled by a member of the public who was utilising their right to bear a firearm?

Never.

Sadly, privately owned guns are more likely to be used by murderers as a protest against society or by children who find the gun and experiment with disastrous consequences.

[Mucker1884]

28 minutes ago, Anag Ram said:

When do we ever here a story that says thankfully the shooter was foiled by a member of the public who was utilising their right to bear a firearm?

Never.

 

If I have a pair of "Cargo Pants", with a total of five pockets, with each pocket containing one personally owned firearm, and get shot dead by a madman running amok, how many firearms do I have to protect myself/others?

?

[Tyler Durden]

Bowling for Columbine. 

Still totally relevant now.

[B4ev6is]

This needs to stop guns need to ban them and anyone caught with them unless special licence they will not able to buy one.

[uttoxram75]

1 hour ago, Leeds Ram said:

There will be a tipping point soon where the number of mass shootings outweighs the need to protect what is a very dubious constitutional argument (if you read the second amendment it's pretty clear the founders are talking of a form of citizen militia). I believe after sandy hook Obama simply tried to pass small legislation such as a 30 day wait period for a background check and the right balked at that. Biden and democrats need to actually make it seem like they are coming for the guns wholesale to inch a compromise like background checks, a wait period and the types of weapons that can be sold at a supermarket. 

Thats the only way I think. 

Maybe taking charitable status off the NRA would be a start as well.

[Comrade 86]

Steve Kerr nailing it here:

 

[YouRams]

23 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

Steve Kerr nailing it here:

 

I don't agree with bringing politics into sport but this is powerful, hats off for standing up.

[Bob The Badger]

3 hours ago, Leeds Ram said:

There will be a tipping point soon where the number of mass shootings outweighs the need to protect what is a very dubious constitutional argument (if you read the second amendment it's pretty clear the founders are talking of a form of citizen militia). I believe after sandy hook Obama simply tried to pass small legislation such as a 30 day wait period for a background check and the right balked at that. Biden and democrats need to actually make it seem like they are coming for the guns wholesale to inch a compromise like background checks, a wait period and the types of weapons that can be sold at a supermarket. 

Nope, they're not even close to a tipping point. No nearer today than on Monday  

Anybody who thinks that hasn't lived in a Red State and doesn't understand the American psyche. 

This is a topic based 99.9% in emotions. Facts, rationale and logic are utterly irrelevant. Mass killings don't change peoples opinions. If anything, they just harden positions  

To invoke any serious change would need the Republicans on board and for many that would be electoral suicide. 
 

 

[Scott129]

32 minutes ago, YouRams said:

I don't agree with bringing politics into sport but this is powerful, hats off for standing up.

Great speech - feels monumental - but it's going to do absolutely nothing.

@Bob The Badger has nailed it. Republicans won't dare go against what has worked for them for so long. It's disgusting.

Sorry @YouRams, meant to quote the actual video!

Edited May 25, 2022 by Scott129

[Carl Sagan]

It's so sad, but there seems practically zero chance of it changing with views so entrenched. What would it take? A national strike by children refusing to go to school until the laws are changed? A national strike by everyone who doesn't want their kids at risk of randomly being gunned down? A national march on DC from every state, taking weeks to build up and arrive, with daily media coverage, and then refusing to return home until the law is changed.

Effectively America currently tacitly accepts child sacrifice. It's almost like the Hunger Games with you risking your child's name being drawn at random, to be killed to satisfy the gun lobby. Insane. And very, very miserable.

[Mick Brolly]

If 200 kids are shot dead tomorrow they won't change anything strange people. 

[Bob The Badger]

1 hour ago, Carl Sagan said:

Effectively America currently tacitly accepts child sacrifice. 

Millions of people in the US are anti-guns and scores of millions in favour of tighter legislation. 

If there were a referendum tomorrow on implementing much tighter background checks and banning semi-automatic weapons it would win comfortably. 

The problem is, that the power in the country is dictated by a small number of states. You can't take Texas by being anti-gun and almost certainly not Florida, which is a crucial swing state, either. 

No Republican would ever get the nomination in those and a whole host of other states, so standing up against the gun lobby is ensuring political irrelevance and utterly futile. It would be akin to trying to get the Tory Party nomination for a parliamentary election after declaring you want to lift all immigration limits and nationalize corner shops  

There is no one thing that is America and blanket statements like that sound good, but are meaningless and superficial because even hardened gun lovers don't want kids to die any more than drug dealers want their customers to die  

And fwiw, I'm massively anti-gun.  

[i-Ram]

Crazy Americans. You can take guns into school, but pupils are not allowed to run in the hallway.

[Carl Sagan]

41 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

Millions of people in the US are anti-guns and scores of millions in favour of tighter legislation. 

If there were a referendum tomorrow on implementing much tighter background checks and banning semi-automatic weapons it would win comfortably. 

The problem is, that the power in the country is dictated by a small number of states. You can't take Texas by being anti-gun and almost certainly not Florida, which is a crucial swing state, either. 

No Republican would ever get the nomination in those and a whole host of other states, so standing up against the gun lobby is ensuring political irrelevance and utterly futile. It would be akin to trying to get the Tory Party nomination for a parliamentary election after declaring you want to lift all immigration limits and nationalize corner shops  

There is no one thing that is America and blanket statements like that sound good, but are meaningless and superficial because even hardened gun lovers don't want kids to die any more than drug dealers want their customers to die  

And fwiw, I'm massively anti-gun.  

My controversial take is no Dem can do it and it needs to be a Republican. And actually that Trump could have done it as he was bigger than the Republicans at the time and not very interested in party politics. He'd been a registered Democrat most of the time, and simply said what needed to be said in the GOP debates/primaries to win the nomination. He was only interested in winning. Once that was done he quite fancied being thought a great President and gun control might have been his cause celebre. But because before he'd even done anything at all there were vitriolic protests and marches against him from the entire Dem community he had no choice but to stick 2 fingers up at them and go full-on anti-Dem. They should have "reached out to him" as the Americans say. A real missed opportunity.

FWIW the Tories would definitely say they're not anti immigration, just about being able to control borders and decide who comes in and out. And the idea the high street needs protecting isn't controversial, plus they've already nationalised some railway lines and energy providers.

[Foreveram]

9 hours ago, EtoileSportiveDeDerby said:

Horrific. The NRA annual conference is next week, timing is everything. No doubt nothing will happen.

In Houston Texas less than 300 miles from the shooting.

[B4ev6is]

What I think needs to happen a protests with there children side by side outside the White House they need make it clear enough is enough and we are sick and tired of our kids living in fear by just going to school.

I do believe current prisendent will actually do something about it the only way is by soldiers doing school runs and by protecting kids while just going to school or covering grounds in case of attack.

[Bob The Badger]

8 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

My controversial take is no Dem can do it and it needs to be a Republican. And actually that Trump could have done it as he was bigger than the Republicans at the time and not very interested in party politics. He'd been a registered Democrat most of the time, and simply said what needed to be said in the GOP debates/primaries to win the nomination. He was only interested in winning. Once that was done he quite fancied being thought a great President and gun control might have been his cause celebre. But because before he'd even done anything at all there were vitriolic protests and marches against him from the entire Dem community he had no choice but to stick 2 fingers up at them and go full-on anti-Dem. They should have "reached out to him" as the Americans say. A real missed opportunity.

FWIW the Tories would definitely say they're not anti immigration, just about being able to control borders and decide who comes in and out. And the idea the high street needs protecting isn't controversial, plus they've already nationalised some railway lines and energy providers.

Trump would never have done it. He was always massively pro gun/2nd amendment which is partly why Steve Scalise became so supportive.

Not only would he not have done it, he couldn't.

His base were turning on him at the end over his admission that he was vaccinated and he was booed at more than one event when he advised people to get tested.

His support would have utterly collapsed. 

And of course the Tories wouldn't say there are anti-immigration, just like almost no Senators say they love guns. 

Tories sell being anti-immigration as looking to protect the average British citizens' jobs, safety and way of life.

Even the clearly gun-obssessed nutjobs like Majorie Taylor-Green and Laureen Boebert don't say they just love guns. No, they dress it up as protecting the 2nd amendment from people who don't respect the founding fathers wisdom.

It's crazy complicated, which is why I think it's meaningless and unhelpful to just label a country of 350 million people as being this or doing that when it's so diverse.

BTW, the 1st amendment, as you probably know, is the right to free speech. And whereas it gets nothing like the coverage (for obvious reasons), it's fought almost as hard for as the right to bear arms which is why it took so long for social media platforms to start banning people who are clearly stirring up race hate.

They take their constitution very seriously.

But sadly, just about every element of it is open to debate and interpretation. Which was intentional by the authors, but not very helpful now.

[Stive Pesley]

16 hours ago, Leeds Ram said:

if you read the second amendment it's pretty clear the founders are talking of a form of citizen militia

I've seen the pro-gun lobby people in the US calling people hypocrites for wanting to ban guns in the US, yet supporting the arming of civilians in Ukraine. Like these are somehow totally the same thing?! They don't even understand their own constitution do they?

 

[Bob The Badger]

1 hour ago, Stive Pesley said:

I've seen the pro-gun lobby people in the US calling people hypocrites for wanting to ban guns in the US, yet supporting the arming of civilians in Ukraine. Like these are somehow totally the same thing?! They don't even understand their own constitution do they?

 

TBF,  legal scholars often don't agree on the meaning of elements of the constitution. It used to bug me, but apparently it was deliberately written ambiguously to allow it to be more flexible and adapt to changes.

It hasn't really panned out as they expected/hoped.

[Ram-Alf]

19 hours ago, Alpha said:

The most advanced country in the free world ladies and gentleman! 

With Tech maybe, With people I very much doubt it, When a Country has easy access to firearms, When the people are used to having firearms, When an organisation such as the NRA lobby politicians and are supremely wealthy...then there's only 1 outcome...more of the same.

Chris Rock(comedian)did a routine concerning gun crime in the USA, Sell every bullet for $50 for every firearm, People will think twice when going on a killing spree?‍♀️