Ground Sharing Agreement

[Ambitious]

A groundshare isn't really a option for anyone. 

Realistically how many people are going to travel to Leicester for games or Stoke? Chesterfield probably makes most sense. It only holds 10,000 people but it would probably be big enough considering the circumstances. Notts County isn't possible due to fixture congestion. 

We would then have to pay another club potentially more than we're currently paying that bald bell piece to use the stadium in the middle of Derby so it makes no sense to me. 

[kevinhectoring]

5 hours ago, IslandExile said:

I mean the loans that Mel has directly to the club.

I was confused by this exchange between you and @angieram  I though the list of the club’s creditors filed by Q indicated that MM’s loans were to a holding company not to the club 

[Tamworthram]

Tamworth FC have an all weather 3G pitch and therefore wouldn’t suffer from excessive use. It’s also walking distance from my house.

Just sayin ?

[Amington Ram]

I agree with Tamworthram. 
Tamworth it is.

Rams at the Lamb. Has a connection.

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

Where does the valuation of £80m for the stadium come in all this? Plenty on here, including me, defended the valuation as it was carried out by international professional valuers. That being the case isn't someone who pays £23m for it getting a good deal? Infact if you factor the £80m valuation of the stadium plus the potential and good will in owning DCFC I would say you could argue a value of £100m.

Have I missed something?

[Alty_Ram]

26 minutes ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

Where does the valuation of £80m for the stadium come in all this? Plenty on here, including me, defended the valuation as it was carried out by international professional valuers. That being the case isn't someone who pays £23m for it getting a good deal? Infact if you factor the £80m valuation of the stadium plus the potential and good will in owning DCFC I would say you could argue a value of £100m.

Have I missed something?

Not I think (as you say) it represents excellent value at that price it's just purely about how unattractive the whole package with huge debts is rather than about the ground as such. Certainly for a 3rd party to just buy it that seems very reasonable indeed. I wonder though whether 20 million or whatever is just the sweetener price to a buyer of the whole club and whether Morris doesn't like the idea of a 3rd party (who is not buying the club) just picking up a bargain and making money in rent that MM could otherwise have made.

[uttoxram75]

3 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

Tamworth FC have an all weather 3G pitch and therefore wouldn’t suffer from excessive use. It’s also walking distance from my house.

Just sayin ?

Could you fit a couple of hundred of us in your garden for a pre match pint?

[Keepyuppy]

To quote The Proclaimers, I would walk 500 miles to watch the rams if need be ?

[SaffyRam]

8 hours ago, Ram1988 said:

The rumours on Twitter last night was that some local third party local businesses men were trying to look to offer a deal for PP. I hope there was some truth to this as its all gone quiet around the council buying it.

Yes, it’s true. It was Punjabi Rams who first tweeted about it last night. They’ve tweeted again today to say it’s still on the table and being worked on. They haven’t said who it is. 

[Crewton]

3 hours ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

Where does the valuation of £80m for the stadium come in all this? Plenty on here, including me, defended the valuation as it was carried out by international professional valuers. That being the case isn't someone who pays £23m for it getting a good deal? Infact if you factor the £80m valuation of the stadium plus the potential and good will in owning DCFC I would say you could argue a value of £100m.

Have I missed something?

Yes, £23M is a pretty good deal in the current climate. The £81M valuation was of course carried out pre-Covid, before the fuel crisis and before a full-scale war broke out in Ukraine, and also when the stadium was owned by a football club in the Championship with a turnover of £30M and potential for adding facilities that might increase commercial revenues. The circumstances are much different now, and the chances of anyone paying that valuation are negligible. The stadium owner, whilst having some leverage in any deal, can only set a price that he believes someone will be willing to pay and he needs it to be sold to clear his obligations to his lender- it's a distressed sale, even though the owner has a degree of power over the most likely/fitting purchasers.

[Tamworthram]

1 hour ago, uttoxram75 said:

Could you fit a couple of hundred of us in your garden for a pre match pint?

No problem. I’ll even ask one of the staff to serve you.

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

40 minutes ago, Crewton said:

Yes, £23M is a pretty good deal in the current climate. The £81M valuation was of course carried out pre-Covid, before the fuel crisis and before a full-scale war broke out in Ukraine, and also when the stadium was owned by a football club in the Championship with a turnover of £30M and potential for adding facilities that might increase commercial revenues. The circumstances are much different now, and the chances of anyone paying that valuation are negligible. The stadium owner, whilst having some leverage in any deal, can only set a price that he believes someone will be willing to pay and he needs it to be sold to clear his obligations to his lender- it's a distressed sale, even though the owner has a degree of power over the most likely/fitting purchasers.

Agree with all that but my point is its still of value which at say a realistic £23m means the club as a going concern even in league 3 must be worth at least £35m.

[kevinhectoring]

5 hours ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

Where does the valuation of £80m for the stadium come in all this? Plenty on here, including me, defended the valuation as it was carried out by international professional valuers. That being the case isn't someone who pays £23m for it getting a good deal? Infact if you factor the £80m valuation of the stadium plus the potential and good will in owning DCFC I would say you could argue a value of £100m.

Have I missed something?

Spot on. 80m was never right but all MM has asked for is enough to pay off MSD. Many choose to ignore that inconvenient truth and talk about him making money from the stadium 

[Crewton]

1 hour ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

Agree with all that but my point is its still of value which at say a realistic £23m means the club as a going concern even in league 3 must be worth at least £35m.

Certainly, with the only remaining debt the balance of the 35p/£ to be paid and any transfer debt not overdue but still to be paid, and the stadium back in DCFC ownership, that would be about right. 

[Rambam]

Who exactly gave Mel Morris the right to transfer the club’ stadium’s ownership to himself anyway? 
One could argue he stole it. It was all financial jiggery pokery anyway. And then to put the club into administration but to not include the stadium. 
Sickening. 

[Ken Tram]

On 09/05/2022 at 14:08, Ambitious said:

A groundshare isn't really a option for anyone. ...

We would then have to pay another club potentially more than we're currently paying that bald bell piece to use the stadium in the middle of Derby so it makes no sense to me. 

I think that in order to negotiate a purchase price, a buyer has to show that they might not buy it - which is why it is relevant to consider ground sharing.

It helps to establish a realistic price for the ground.

Edited May 11, 2022 by Ken Tram

[kevinhectoring]

1 hour ago, Rambam said:

Who exactly gave Mel Morris the right to transfer the club’ stadium’s ownership to himself anyway? 
One could argue he stole it

he seems to have paid way above market value for it so it doesn’t exactly fall squarely within the parameters of the theft act 

[Sparkle]

42 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

he seems to have paid way above market value for it so it doesn’t exactly fall squarely within the parameters of the theft act 

Until we see the accounts we won’t know where that £80 million is though ? I may have missed it appearing and disappearing 

[PistoldPete]

On 09/05/2022 at 21:17, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

Agree with all that but my point is its still of value which at say a realistic £23m means the club as a going concern even in league 3 must be worth at least £35m.

True. But there is still a risk we may go pop. Which is what is depressing the value of the stadium. Tough on Mel but there we are. 

[Boycie]

These poor folk who live in Derby and might have to travel to a home game. ?