Caerphilly Ram Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 24 minutes ago, wombatram said: Anyone not just a little curious that this has been completed very quickly? Would love to know how close the Clowes group is currently, with a certain figure of the past… ? Not really, my interpretation is that Clowes was close to the CK discussions as his taking on of the stadium and leasing it to CK was key to the deal happening. He had time during that process to conduct due diligence and seal a deal on the stadium which makes the rest far less complicated. It’s not too much of a stretch to then think Q could share the proposed deal CK, Q, the EFL and the creditors had all agreed to with the Clowes group, their legal team review it all and suggest tweaks/accept as is and then agree to proceed. Q will have spent time negotiating with the creditors in line with CKs proposal so a lot of their work will have been done during that time too, despite what a large chunk of fans don’t want to admit. Clowes money is in the UK and can be easily proven and traced compared with money allegedly generated through crypto and kept offshore. That’s my take on how it’s been able to proceed with more pace than other bids. I could of course be wrong. Kathcairns, Jackal and May Contain Nuts 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 1 minute ago, CBX1985 said: The question is do you believe the valuation - and if you do, other than the club what do you put there? It's a valuation method that was proven to be valid at the IDC hearing, and used by other clubs... 1 minute ago, CBX1985 said: Agreed on point two - I think he'll be here for five years minimum, as that is what it is going to take to get debt under control, the ship steady and so marketable due to fanbase. What debt will there be to "get under control"? If reports are true that we're exiting via the 25% method, the only 'debt' remaining to pay will be to football creditors as they fall due over the next 2 seasons. RadioactiveWaste, Carnero, duncanjwitham and 1 other 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Trav Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Wonder what time it’ll happen today. If it happens today ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarneOut Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 2 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: It's a valuation method that was proven to be valid at the IDC hearing, and used by other clubs... What debt will there be to "get under control"? If reports are true that we're exiting via the 25% method, the only 'debt' remaining to pay will be to football creditors as they fall due over the next 2 seasons. It's likely that additional debts will be generated by the ongoing running of the club. Revenue is unlikely to cover outgoings, without player sales to cover the shortfall, and at the moment, we don't really have much in the way of saleable assets. RadioactiveWaste and LazloW 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 1 minute ago, CBX1985 said: The question is do you believe the valuation - and if you do, other than the club what do you put there? Agreed on point two - I think he'll be here for five years minimum, as that is what it is going to take to get debt under control, the ship steady and so marketable due to fanbase. Do I believe the valuation at £80m, no. I think it was intentionally "fluffed up" for some Mel and Pearce accounting ends. They did, however, at least cover themselves in a rare occurrence of being actually clever and not just thinking they were. Would £45-50m be nearer the mark? Probably? My take is DC can probably cover losses in league 1 and has based his decision to buy the club on those (and the ck version of the EFL business plan most likely). 3-5 years of rebuilding then hopefully find a buyer. If we rejoin the championship in that time, all the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBX1985 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Just now, Ghost of Clough said: It's a valuation method that was proven to be valid at the IDC hearing, and used by other clubs... What debt will there be to "get under control"? If reports are true that we're exiting via the 25% method, the only 'debt' remaining to pay will be to football creditors as they fall due over the next 2 seasons. Point 1: I appreciate that. But, again someone needs to pay - and these sorts of valuation methods are usually formulaic. Football gounds are unique as only one game in town (so to speak) - due to location and the City only having one recognised team. TBF - he is probably the best landlord we could have, and might never sell ground but keep on long term lease. Point 2 - he is buying the club. He is overpaying to buy the club. No one else is going to pay what he does, and the sale price tomorrow would be much lower than he has paid today. The debt is held by DC on this (albeit never called in), and is accounted for in paper losses. Those losses need to be filled, i.e. value added before any sale. You are only considering external debt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 3 minutes ago, ClowePow said: It's likely that additional debts will be generated by the ongoing running of the club. Revenue is unlikely to cover outgoings, without player sales to cover the shortfall, and at the moment, we don't really have much in the way of saleable assets. Just because a club doesn't run at a profit doesn't automatically result in additional debt. An owner can inject equity into the company, resulting in £0 of debt. Ram-Alf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarterForTen Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 3 minutes ago, ClowePow said: It's likely that additional debts will be generated by the ongoing running of the club. Revenue is unlikely to cover outgoings, without player sales to cover the shortfall, and at the moment, we don't really have much in the way of saleable assets. Not sure I agree with you on that. For the first time in a decade, the club has the ability to set its outgoings budget to what it wants to be as there is very little forward obligations right now. kevinhectoring 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewton Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 14 minutes ago, Eatonram said: Gone 9.30 and not a word.......this is the last straw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinhectoring Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 48 minutes ago, Turk Thrust said: Yes. Is it Clowes as in Close or Clowes as in House and is it a hard “s” as in Hose or a soft “s” as in House. Oh God I need to lie down Exactly the clue’s in the name archram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanjwitham Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 2 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said: Do I believe the valuation at £80m, no. I think it was intentionally "fluffed up" for some Mel and Pearce accounting ends. They did, however, at least cover themselves in a rare occurrence of being actually clever and not just thinking they were. Would £45-50m be nearer the mark? Probably? My take is DC can probably cover losses in league 1 and has based his decision to buy the club on those (and the ck version of the EFL business plan most likely). 3-5 years of rebuilding then hopefully find a buyer. If we rejoin the championship in that time, all the better. The issue is what you mean by 'value'. Pride Park was basically valued on what it would cost us to replace it (less wear and tear etc), which is absolutely a standard way of valuing things like stadiums. And when you look at Brentford paying £70m for a much smaller stadium, and Brighton paying £93m for theirs a decade ago, ~£80m is not remotely a crazy valuation. Obviously in other contexts 'value' might mean completely different things to different people. Ghost of Clough, Hinzy9 and Carnero 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 1 minute ago, StarterForTen said: Not sure I agree with you on that. For the first time in a decade, the club has the ability to set its outgoings budget to what it wants to be as there is very little forward obligations right now. General running costs of the club (stadium and training ground) will be about £10m. Add wages, transfer instalments due, and other costs and I see very little possibility of making a profit in L1 without player sales. CBX1985 and jono 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucker1884 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Have we gone all serious again? What's with all the sensible grown up financial talk again? Today is not a day for grown up talk! Today is a day of joy. A day of buffoonery. A day to rejoice. nogbad van 50, Premier ram, Miggins and 2 others 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBX1985 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said: The issue is what you mean by 'value'. Pride Park was basically valued on what it would cost us to replace it (less wear and tear etc), which is absolutely a standard way of valuing things like stadiums. And when you look at Brentford paying £70m for a much smaller stadium, and Brighton paying £93m for theirs a decade ago, ~£80m is not remotely a crazy valuation. Obviously in other contexts 'value' might mean completely different things to different people. That is an excellent point! I suppose that makes the construction of a stadium effectively a start up cost rather than an asset. Can I reasonably play to similar crowds (for revenue) for the same or less cost than the construction of a new ground? Or would less revenue from playing in a smaller stadium but not having the fixed and start up cost of the new stadium be better the owner? All very interesting business questions. Edited June 30, 2022 by CBX1985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal is a Ram Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 No 10am announcment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angieram Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 I am hoping a property development firm might have far more imaginative ways of making that stadium generate its own income than our former owner had. You have only got to look at how other stadiums around the country are utilised to see ours was criminally underused. Price structures and usage of spaces need a big overhaul (long overdue) and then the stadium will be there to work for the club. ariotofmyown, LazloW, Ramrob and 14 others 14 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramos Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 52 minutes ago, wombatram said: Anyone not just a little curious that this has been completed very quickly? Would love to know how close the Clowes group is currently, with a certain figure of the past… ? It’s been going on for weeks in the background. In the public eye it looks quick but as far as I’m aware as soon as CKs bid started to falter they began looking at a deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angieram Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 4 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said: Have we gone all serious again? What's with all the sensible grown up financial talk again? Today is not a day for grown up talk! Today is a day of joy. A day of buffoonery. A day to rejoice. We'll rejoice when there's something to rejoice about. I'm waiting for an official announcement from someone I trust more than Q. Mucker1884, Ram-Alf and Uttoxram62 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 3 minutes ago, CBX1985 said: That is an excellent point! I suppose that makes the construction of a stadium effectively a start up cost rather than an asset. Can I reasonably play to similar crowds (for revenue) for the same or less cost than the construction of a new ground? Or would less revenue from playing in a smaller stadium but not having the fixed and start up cost of the new stadium be better the owner? All very interesting business questions. The stadium was valued using the depreciated replacement cost (DRC) method. This means how much would it cost to get the modern equivalent (bearing in mind wear and tear). It's hard to argue against the c£80m DRC valuation when looking at similar sized or smaller stadiums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazloW Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Jim White on TalkSport being very bullish about it definitely going through today. Make of that what you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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