The Administration Thread

[Ram a lamb a ding dong]

Someone made a v good point yesterday that would put things to bed in an instant.

If admin came out and said clearly that no bidders will commit until they know for certain which division the club are in would settle things.

Tbf that is my take but the biggest concern is to lose all the talent for nothing.  could agree a deal with prospective owners that they will purchase at 1 of 2 rates depending on division next season.

Doesn't take a genius to put this in place.

Edited March 20, 2022 by angieram
Remove personal insults

[IslandExile]

3 hours ago, Oldben said:

Imagine derby is liquidated, that's bad.

Yet it gives the opportunity to totally rebuild under a new name.

It gives the opportunity to buy a club in League Two and rebrand that club as say Derby AFC.

Still keeping a version of Derby as  a club.

It removes the hmrc debt, msd debt, arsenal debt etc

I'm not sure Derby if there would be the money to buy Chesterfield or Burton  and rebrand them.

That could leave a club like Mansfield vulnerable.

A mansfield rebrand wouldn't give Derby much, there grounds not great, there players are not great and how do you move the ground to Derby.

Recall Wimbledon afc plays in Milton Keynes a very long way from Wimbledon, that club was rebranded.

It might be an extreme solution.

It might appear strange to buy a club in League Two for about 10 million and rebrand, but I don't think there's anything in the rules that says that cant be done.

Under that scheme finding new owners seems more probable.

 

Sorry but that's an appalling suggestion.

If we do get liquidated, start a phoenix club by all means but please don't screw over another club, with its fans, history and community.

This is not the NFL with franchises. What the FA/EFL allowed to happen to Wimbledon was shocking. It should've been MK Dons that were a new club.

I know we are desperate. We are all worried. But, whatever happens, rebranding an existing club should not be an option, let alone the last option.

[May Contain Nuts]

9 hours ago, Seth's left foot said:

That’s what I think will happen. We’ve gone from ‘you’ll be surprised how quickly things will progress’ to radio silence, that doesn’t bode well for next season.

 

That's the problem with constantly asking for updates. Any response given is just a snapshot in time in an ever evolving, complex situation.

If that's what they believed at the time of asking the and if they've answered honestly - which is basically what their latest statement was saying ("given in good faith") - but then someone else throws a spanner in the works, acts unexpectedly, doesn't stick to their word then that answer becomes invalid very quickly.

They've definitely been naive with their previous statements and rightly criticised for the wording so it's not really a surprise they're being a lot more off-hand and guarded with their statements now, or refusing to say anything at all to certain people - they probably think they've been burned enough times already.

Either that or they're outright lying to us and have been all along, having a merry old time of putting their professional reputation on the rocks and costing themselves future work.

Perhaps what they should have done from the outset was only put out the 'nothing statements' we see now? I can't really imagine that would have gone down too well either though tbh.

The admins are acting in lieu of an actual club owner, but they aren't actually football chairmen, or even 'football people' at all. Sometimes people seem to forget that.

Edited March 20, 2022 by Coconut's Beard

[i-Ram]

3 hours ago, Oldben said:

Imagine derby is liquidated, that's bad.

Yet it gives the opportunity to totally rebuild under a new name.

It gives the opportunity to buy a club in League Two and rebrand that club as say Derby AFC.

Still keeping a version of Derby as  a club.

It removes the hmrc debt, msd debt, arsenal debt etc

I'm not sure Derby if there would be the money to buy Chesterfield or Burton  and rebrand them.

That could leave a club like Mansfield vulnerable.

A mansfield rebrand wouldn't give Derby much, there grounds not great, there players are not great and how do you move the ground to Derby.

Recall Wimbledon afc plays in Milton Keynes a very long way from Wimbledon, that club was rebranded.

It might be an extreme solution.

It might appear strange to buy a club in League Two for about 10 million and rebrand, but I don't think there's anything in the rules that says that cant be done.

Under that scheme finding new owners seems more probable.

 

[FindernRam]

On 19/03/2022 at 09:08, Ram a lamb a ding dong said:

MM has got away scott free tho

Not sure losing £200m is in the definition of scott free. Not that I'm a particular fan or hater!

Edited March 20, 2022 by FindernRam

[Sparkle]

Worth remembering that currently the administrators own Derby County football club but their job is not to make Derby county football club any better it’s about getting as much money for creditors as possible - and themselves ! 
I can’t forgive MM for putting us in administration as it’s caused so many problems and I am fairly sure he still could have sold us by now despite what we owe in fact with all the talent that was coming through the academy to the first team we could easily have been making a profit in the next few years even if he was still in charge.

[BramcoteRam84]

11 minutes ago, FindernRam said:

Not sure losing £200m is in the definition of scott free.

Should be £250m, should’ve paid his debts to HMRC and paid off MSD as a minimum. If he has the money and still won’t part with the extra to clear up his mess then he’s the devil incarnate. If he hasn’t got the money still no sympathy. He gambled he should pay. 

Sorry if you also agree with this viewpoint I’m not picking on your post, it’s just  I really don’t care how much he’s lost or have anything even resembling sympathy for the man.
 

Edited March 20, 2022 by BramcoteRam84

[RipleyRich]

9 minutes ago, FindernRam said:

Not sure losing £200m is in the definition of scott free. Not that I'm a particular fan or hater!

I`m still not convinced that it`s all his money.

[BramcoteRam84]

2 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

Worth remembering that currently the administrators own Derby County football club but their job is not to make Derby county football club any better it’s about getting as much money for creditors as possible - and themselves ! 
I can’t forgive MM for putting us in administration as it’s caused so many problems and I am fairly sure he still could have sold us by now despite what we owe in fact with all the talent that was coming through the academy to the first team we could easily have been making a profit in the next few years even if he was still in charge.

Even if he was not prepared to swallow another £50m and pay off HMRC, even swallowing £20m to pay of MSD and he’d have probably sold the club without administration. 

[RipleyRich]

9 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

Worth remembering that currently the administrators own Derby County football club but their job is not to make Derby county football club any better it’s about getting as much money for creditors as possible - and themselves ! 
I can’t forgive MM for putting us in administration as it’s caused so many problems and I am fairly sure he still could have sold us by now despite what we owe in fact with all the talent that was coming through the academy to the first team we could easily have been making a profit in the next few years even if he was still in charge.

If you look at the documents filed at Companies House, in the list of their objectives, the very first one is to ensure that the Club completes it`s fixtures this season

Edited March 20, 2022 by RipleyRich

[Sparkle]

Just now, BramcoteRam84 said:

Even if he was not prepared to swallow another £50m and pay off HMRC, even swallowing £20m to pay of MSD and he’d have probably sold the club without administration. 

It’s all very disappointing - unfortunately I haven’t won the Euro lottery of £120 million to put right someone else’s wrongs but I would if I could ( best not let the wife see this) 

[Sparkle]

2 minutes ago, RipleyRich said:

If you look at the documents filed at Companies House, in the list of their objectives, the very first one is to ensure that the Club completes it`s fixtures this season

What’s your point? Personally if we were to be liquidated in the summer I prefer to be liquidated now 

[FindernRam]

Men at Mel's level do not operate like us mere plebs. I remember reading some time ago that the Chairman of a major company was on the Board of 50+ other companies and advisor to others. They make quick decisions based on very high level (summarised) information and instinct, because they have no time for detail. It is a trait of many people who get to the top. 

I had to do Board level briefs occasionally and the rule was 5 or 6 bullet points no more. May be 5 minutes to present it!

I imagine MM operates like this and we really should be also decrying the people who were feeding him the data.

[RipleyRich]

3 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

What’s your point? Personally if we were to be liquidated in the summer I prefer to be liquidated now 

I don`t really know what my point is. Maybe I just don`t want to think about it too much.

I don`t think it`s any coincidence that the EFL have backed off since funding to the end of the season was confirmed. I believe that was always their concern due to the problems it would cause them. That is now not an issue and I get the feeling they don`t care too much what happens after that.

Maybe I`m looking too deeply or just being sceptical.

[rammieib]

Say we do go down the liquidation route, I’m not actually sure there is any money for the auditors. Five players we could sell but MSD would get a big chunk of that money.

Also - why would MSD put yet another Loan in if they didn’t think there was a good chance of the club being purchased?

I still think we will get bought but I can’t for the life of me think why any owner not coming in now to allow contracts to be sorted, season tickets sold, secure the staffs future and not start with minus 15, isn’t a good business strategy.

[Ramos]

1 hour ago, LeedsCityRam said:

I must be missing something here. Dont know if its just the same posters wallowing in misery but why is liquidation imminent?

No-one gains from Derby being liquidated, it is in all parties' interests (Morris, MSD, creditors incld HMRC & the EFL) to reach a deal but not unsurprisingly, the key protagonists (Morris & prospective buyers) are trying to eke out every last penny from a deal. Hence the lack of progress, hence the silence.

If we were going to the wall, why did admins allow the Binnies to walk away? If we were going to the wall, why have MSD continued to loan the club money? If we were going to the wall, why aren't Quantuma casting out for new buyers/interest? This is not a Bury scenario.

There is a grim irony that Morris is still trying to drive a good deal for himself personally in view of how incompetent & reckless DCFC business was conducted under his control but he will have to fold eventually. The bidders know this & little incentive for them to fund a relegated club until June in any case when contracts expire...they will very likely want Morris to pick up MSD loans also. This will be sorted at that point & whilst we will be looking at kids & frees again in the next window, Im confident we would survive in League One even with a 15 point penalty. Not exactly sexy but it gives us a base to build from.

Keep the faith ?

Omg some sense for the first time in 300 pages. Hats off to you kind sir.

[Ambitious]

Just get to the end of the season and see where we are, I guess. I’m not confident in a buyer, particularly not the parties that have been at the table. I suppose someone could come out of nowhere that would be good for the club, but I think we should be prepared for the worst. Anyone that doesn’t go to games, I would recommend making the effort. Good chance these are the very last games Derby County ever play. Nothing we can really do about it, unfortunately. The next stage and whatever happens after will ultimately be in our hands, this situation just feels too far gone. 

[Ram-Alf]

42 minutes ago, Ram a lamb a ding dong said:

Someone made a v good point yesterday that would put things to bed in an instant.

If admin came out and said clearly that no bidders will commit until they know for certain which division the club are in would settle things.

Tbf that is my take but the biggest concern is to lose all the talent for nothing.  could agree a deal with prospective owners that they will purchase at 1 of 2 rates depending on division next season.

Doesn't take a genius to put this in place.

In that case we most likely have stupid people now running DCFC or brain dead people who may want to buy us?‍♂️

[maxjam]

4 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

Just get to the end of the season and see where we are, I guess. I’m not confident in a buyer, particularly not the parties that have been at the table. I suppose someone could come out of nowhere that would be good for the club, but I think we should be prepared for the worst. Anyone that doesn’t go to games, I would recommend making the effort. Good chance these are the very last games Derby County ever play. Nothing we can really do about it, unfortunately. The next stage and whatever happens after will ultimately be in our hands, this situation just feels too far gone. 

Thats where I've been for a while now - its out of my hands, just gotta go with the flow and see what happens.

If we're still Derby County, whatever division we end up in it will be an interesting journey back - and I'll be there every step of the way.  If we're reborn as Derby AFC or whatever and lose our history, other than England and the odd visit to Gresley Rovers, thats me done with football.  

[CornwallRam]

25 minutes ago, rammieib said:

Say we do go down the liquidation route, I’m not actually sure there is any money for the auditors. Five players we could sell but MSD would get a big chunk of that money.

Also - why would MSD put yet another Loan in if they didn’t think there was a good chance of the club being purchased?

I still think we will get bought but I can’t for the life of me think why any owner not coming in now to allow contracts to be sorted, season tickets sold, secure the staffs future and not start with minus 15, isn’t a good business strategy.

Unfortunately, I believe that there would be money to pay the administrators.

I've read numerous times that Mel has given his personal guarantees to MSD. The club going in administration was a default on the charge, so MSD could have repossessed the stadium. I believe that they didn't because Mel has given a guarantee. 

Then there's the football creditors, who in the event of liquidation just become unsecured creditors. The EFL would sell the player registrations and have retained our TV money, so most of the football creditors would get paid anyway.

Quantuma would be able to sell all the remaining assets, cars, desks, computers, merchandise, catering equipment etc. But what would get them their main fee is selling on the name and the badge. Consequently, I believe that liquidation only works for Quantuma if it's part of the setting up of a Pheonix club.