The Administration Thread

[RadioactiveWaste]

8 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

It’s the ref’s fault 

It's easy to blame the ref, but really, we need to blame Keogh.

[GboroRam]

Well, thank god he's make his money in crypto. Nearly no fakes or charlatans in that game. 

[RipleyRich]

21 hours ago, kevinhectoring said:

Why is investment required, once the debts are compromised? Rooney has a handy knack of getting good players on frees, we have a strong group of youngsters whose wages won’t be busting the bank, and half the clubs in the leagues are struggling financially so the market for players’ wages has collapsed. The only cost item out of whack is Wayne’s salary and if Stretford is indeed advising CK I’m sure that will be finessed. The fan base puts us in a much stronger position relative to most championship sides, let alone div 1, once the legacy debts are addressed  

Why is investment required?

How many players do you think Rooney can get in for "Free"?

Free Transfers are not "Free" There will be Signing on Fees & Agents Fees to be paid and potentially other negotiated benefits. Once a player is out of contract they, and more importantly their Agent, hold the power. A Free Transfer means there is no fee to be paid to a Club, leaving the Players Agent in a better position to negotiate a more financially beneficial deal for their client (and themselves). There will be cases where this is not so, but usually where a player is so undesirable that there is no competition for his signature.

Often Free Agents are able to negotiate higher wages and / or longer contracts that they would ordinarily be able to. This can cause issues going forward. Just for example look down the road at Lyle Taylor. Forest picked him up for free amidst lots of competition by offering him a 3 year deal instead of the 2 other clubs were offering for the same wages. Now they are stuck with him until the end of his contract and subsidising his loan costs.

Considering the likely hood of L1, it`s going to be harder to attract players. Convincing players to sign for L1 against Championship offers will inevitably mean higher wages and / or longer contracts than rival offers. Derby County & Wayne Rooney will have some attraction, but when it comes down to Players & Agents, cash is king. It`s a short career, one bad tackle and it can be all over and they will in most cases take the best financial offer.

And this is going to be within the scope of a controlled business plan imposed by the EFL and potentially with a 15 point handicap making a return to Championship Football less likely in the immediate future. Couple that to massively reduced income (TV money and reduced match day revenue)

With these restrictions, building a squad this summer is going to be WR`s biggest challenge in Football Management. I personally think he will use the maximum he can for loans. They often come with fees, but not all clubs insist on that and he will have to draw on his contacts to get the best out of that system. The big benefit with loans is short term commitment, and the potential for higher quality players than the free transfer route may be able to offer.

It`s certainly going to be an interesting summer, and we won`t really be able to second guess anything until the Club exits administration, any points deduction known and the business plan imposed.

[BramcoteRam84]

I don’t think we will struggle attracting players next season. There are many decent players out of contract, alongside many who will want to play in front of 20,000+ fans every other week. We are a big club and a big draw. The challenge for Wayne will be the right players and the right characters. The scattergun approaches Sunderland and Ipswich have taken in recent years has set them back. We need to get this right. But despite any restrictions Wayne will have more freedom than last summer and somehow he managed to cobble together squad that would have comfortably survived in the championship in normal circumstances. So I’m confident he will get it right.

Recruitment of academy players is also important and I think where most of the “40” will come from, to rebalance the U18s and U23s and enable the next products to grow and improve and be promoted if ready. We might also pick up some gems. A lot has been said about recruitment but our recruitment in this area has been outstanding. Think it was Nixon that said whoever is in charge of academy recruitment we need to handcuff them to the club or something to that effect.

If CK is the real deal and this gets done, with Rooney already in place and a clear vision about where we want to go and how we’re going to do it, then good times are around the corner whatever restrictions the EFL throw at us. 

[RipleyRich]

3 minutes ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

I don’t think we will struggle attracting players next season. There are many decent players out of contract, alongside many who will want to play in front of 20,000+ fans every other week. We are a big club and a big draw.

 

I think those factors unfortunately are further down the list than Wages and Contract Terms for 99.9% of players.

It`s not much different for us ordinary folk. You may love working for your employer, but if a rival company comes along and offers you more money & better benefits and conditions, it`s hard to ignore.

Even young players when given the option of Derby in L1 or say Preston in the Championship, will be drawn towards the Preston option due to increased exposure (TV, media, Scouting from other clubs etc) and the potential to move their career upwards faster. Don`t forget there is no club loyalty in their decision, we think of that situation wearing our hearts on our sleeves and without an Agent in our ears!

 

[BramcoteRam84]

Just now, RipleyRich said:

I think those factors unfortunately are further down the list than Wages and Contract Terms for 99.9% of players.

It`s not much different for us ordinary folk. You may love working for your employer, but if a rival company comes along and offers you more money & better benefits and conditions, it`s hard to ignore.

Even young players when given the option of Derby in L1 or say Preston in the Championship, will be drawn towards the Preston option due to increased exposure (TV, media, Scouting from other clubs etc) and the potential to move their career upwards faster. Don`t forget there is no club loyalty in their decision, we think of that situation wearing our hearts on our sleeves and without an Agent in our ears!

 

Players were willing to play for us for £4.5k a week last year despite getting better offers. My point is whatever restrictions we have we had more last season.

No one is underestimating the challenge and we won’t know the situation as you say until deal is done and we know where we stand re: points penalties but Rooney has already proven he can assemble a squad and build a culture, if he continues that and doesn’t fall into the trap of getting as many former big names in as he can (unless they are the right characters of course) then we will be fine. Keeping as many as possible of the current group is also important.

[mrdave85]

1 hour ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

There are many decent players out of contract, alongside many who will want to play in front of 20,000+ fans every other week.

We have a great support, but do you really think we’ll continue to get 20,000+ at home in league one? I think it would take an effort from supporters groups akin to organising the march each week to keep that support going.

I’ve a horrible feeling as soon as relegation is confirmed PP will be empty without constant drumming up of supporters

[Woodley Ram]

1 hour ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

Players were willing to play for us for £4.5k a week last year despite getting better offers. My point is whatever restrictions we have we had more last season.

No one is underestimating the challenge and we won’t know the situation as you say until deal is done and we know where we stand re: points penalties but Rooney has already proven he can assemble a squad and build a culture, if he continues that and doesn’t fall into the trap of getting as many former big names in as he can (unless they are the right characters of course) then we will be fine. Keeping as many as possible of the current group is also important.

There will be lots of free agents this year, I’m sure we will get some decent players. Some of the 30 year olds will be more willing be reasonable on their pay demands. We will also get loans and lower league players

the magic comes when Wayne blends them together. 
i have a feeling that Wisdom and jags will return and most of the young ones will resign. I think Byrne, Lawrence and Bielik will be gone.

[Woodley Ram]

4 minutes ago, mrdave85 said:

We have a great support, but do you really think we’ll continue to get 20,000+ at home in league one? I think it would take an effort from supporters groups akin to organising the march each week to keep that support going.

I’ve a horrible feeling as soon as relegation is confirmed PP will be empty without constant drumming up of supporters

I for one will still be there, the team team deserve our support this year, they have been excellent 

[BramcoteRam84]

Just now, mrdave85 said:

We have a great support, but do you really think we’ll continue to get 20,000+ at home in league one? I think it would take an effort from supporters groups akin to organising the march each week to keep that support going.

I’ve a horrible feeling as soon as relegation is confirmed PP will be empty without constant drumming up of supporters

Yes. Not saying we will average 25000 but we can average between 20-22k. Red Dogs have pitiful support yet they still managed to average around 20000 in league one.

Fans are behind Rooney, we’ve been galvanised by the adversity of this season and for many people including me feel like they have reconnected with their club again.

If Rooney and CK can build the positive vision he’s talking about of a community club with a positive match day experience i think fans will come including new ones. Especially if we’re up the sharp end of the league as well. 

[BucksRam]

13 hours ago, Boycie said:

It’s smaller and faster, ask Raul Albentosa.

Chris’ might be bigger, but it’s not all about the length, it’s how fast it goes.

I think it's more important how long it stays up, and how quickly it can take off again.

[BramcoteRam84]

7 minutes ago, Woodley Ram said:

There will be lots of free agents this year, I’m sure we will get some decent players. Some of the 30 year olds will be more willing be reasonable on their pay demands. We will also get loans and lower league players

the magic comes when Wayne blends them together. 
i have a feeling that Wisdom and jags will return and most of the young ones will resign. I think Byrne, Lawrence and Bielik will be gone.

Hope we can keep Byrne but agree Lawrence and Bielik will go. Buchanan may well be on his way as well. Bielik can’t afford to playing L1 in a World Cup year, if we could construct the right deal for Lawrence maybe he would stay but he will have his pick of top 6 teams on a free transfer, he would have to take a pay cut to stay here. 
 

If we could keep Sibley Bird Knight Cashin Ebiowei Morrison Allsop Byrne Davies Forsyth Stearman Thompson then that’s a good start. 

[jimtastic56]

4 minutes ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

Yes. Not saying we will average 25000 but we can average between 20-22k. Red Dogs have pitiful support yet they still managed to average around 20000 in league one.

Fans are behind Rooney, we’ve been galvanised by the adversity of this season and for many people including me feel like they have reconnected with their club again.

If Rooney and CK can build the positive vision he’s talking about of a community club with a positive match day experience i think fans will come including new ones. Especially if we’re up the sharp end of the league as well. 

I will buy 4 season tickets , no matter which division we are in. But I would have no objections to giving the North stand over to free kids tickets. Anything to stop them supporting Man U or Liverpool. And get some taking penalties at ht and see if we can find a striker for the future.

[RadioactiveWaste]

We'll attract players no problem. Just if we're in league 1 it'll be league 1 players.

 

[Comrade 86]

2 hours ago, RipleyRich said:

I think those factors unfortunately are further down the list than Wages and Contract Terms for 99.9% of players.

It`s not much different for us ordinary folk. You may love working for your employer, but if a rival company comes along and offers you more money & better benefits and conditions, it`s hard to ignore.

Even young players when given the option of Derby in L1 or say Preston in the Championship, will be drawn towards the Preston option due to increased exposure (TV, media, Scouting from other clubs etc) and the potential to move their career upwards faster. Don`t forget there is no club loyalty in their decision, we think of that situation wearing our hearts on our sleeves and without an Agent in our ears!

Not sure how many of us would have coped, through these darkest of times, without your unwavering positivity. 

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

15 hours ago, Crewton said:

He said he wasn't a billionaire. There's a difference, I believe.

 

Don’t know his wealth although he could not want to admit he is in fact a billionaire. He could well be. Maybe he’s not. 

[Kathcairns]

1 hour ago, mrdave85 said:

We have a great support, but do you really think we’ll continue to get 20,000+ at home in league one? I think it would take an effort from supporters groups akin to organising the march each week to keep that support going.

I’ve a horrible feeling as soon as relegation is confirmed PP will be empty without constant drumming up of supporters

If ck takes over and rooney stays i think we will get a good crowd, especially if we win alot of games. Seeing your team play well and win games is what football is all about no matter what league you are in.

[Anag Ram]

If Wayne Rooney stays, surely this sends a message of unwavering ambition for the club. His influence and enthusiasm has rubbed off on the squad and may well continue to do so.

More may stay than some on here think.

[kevinhectoring]

2 hours ago, RipleyRich said:

Why is investment required?

How many players do you think Rooney can get in for "Free"?

Free Transfers are not "Free" There will be Signing on Fees & Agents Fees to be paid and potentially other negotiated benefits. Once a player is out of contract they, and more importantly their Agent, hold the power. A Free Transfer means there is no fee to be paid to a Club, leaving the Players Agent in a better position to negotiate a more financially beneficial deal for their client (and themselves). There will be cases where this is not so, but usually where a player is so undesirable that there is no competition for his signature.

Often Free Agents are able to negotiate higher wages and / or longer contracts that they would ordinarily be able to. This can cause issues going forward. Just for example look down the road at Lyle Taylor. Forest picked him up for free amidst lots of competition by offering him a 3 year deal instead of the 2 other clubs were offering for the same wages. Now they are stuck with him until the end of his contract and subsidising his loan costs.

Considering the likely hood of L1, it`s going to be harder to attract players. Convincing players to sign for L1 against Championship offers will inevitably mean higher wages and / or longer contracts than rival offers. Derby County & Wayne Rooney will have some attraction, but when it comes down to Players & Agents, cash is king. It`s a short career, one bad tackle and it can be all over and they will in most cases take the best financial offer.

And this is going to be within the scope of a controlled business plan imposed by the EFL and potentially with a 15 point handicap making a return to Championship Football less likely in the immediate future. Couple that to massively reduced income (TV money and reduced match day revenue)

With these restrictions, building a squad this summer is going to be WR`s biggest challenge in Football Management. I personally think he will use the maximum he can for loans. They often come with fees, but not all clubs insist on that and he will have to draw on his contacts to get the best out of that system. The big benefit with loans is short term commitment, and the potential for higher quality players than the free transfer route may be able to offer.

It`s certainly going to be an interesting summer, and we won`t really be able to second guess anything until the Club exits administration, any points deduction known and the business plan imposed.

Rooney’s personal connections and ‘brand’ give him an advantage over other div 1 clubs. I think he will be able to persuade players to play in div 1 who would otherwise be looking abroad or for coaching roles. And his moves for Jags and Morrison indicate he has a good eye for those who will contribute at the end of their career 

Agree with your comments about loans - another way Rooney’s connections might allow him to build a better squad for less cash. Maybe Frank will be our friend if he stays in post 

Don’t follow your logic about the EFL business plan. You’re starting point is that big investment is required and surely the bp limits that

As for Rooney’s salary, interesting to see whether - as some on here suggest - he gets a small shareholding and agrees a lower salary in exchange. Sounds a bit like a MM wheeze for avoiding FFp problems ... 

[YouRams]

1 hour ago, mrdave85 said:

We have a great support, but do you really think we’ll continue to get 20,000+ at home in league one? I think it would take an effort from supporters groups akin to organising the march each week to keep that support going.

I’ve a horrible feeling as soon as relegation is confirmed PP will be empty without constant drumming up of supporters

I've not been able to go much this season with work and family commitments but I'll get a season ticket next year even in league 1, I still think we'll have over 20k and a massive away following regardless.