The Administration Thread

[strawhillram]

11 minutes ago, ilkleyram said:

But that's not true.  If a bidder buys the club for (say) £30m then they get the club trading as a business - season ticket and other income, TV income, sponsorship income, goodwill and all the other things that go with a football club.  They buy one of the founders of the league (at the moment) well managed by one of England's all time great players, they get training facilities and an academy with Cat1 status and a fantastic reputation in this area, they get one of the biggest fanbases in the lowest 3 divisions.  They buy potential - a club that's always looking to go upwards even if the trajectory might be the opposite way and they buy opportunity. 

Never (I suspect in the history of English football) will an owner have had such an opportunity to balance the books, to create a business model that works - the player wages/contracts will be the lowest they've ever been, not only in pounds, shillings and pence but also as a % of income.  And they buy a staff and fan group pretty demoralised by the events of the last 6 months off the pitch. In short they can create a club almost from scratch and turn negativity into positivity almost overnight.

We are, in short, one helluva opportunity for a purchaser with some seed money, with ambition, imagination and a willingness to achieve a lot in a short space of time.  And, relatively, cheap too - not necessarily in terms of how the deal stacks up as a deal but how much you might have to spend on a company giving you similar opportunities.  We can be profitable and we can be fun to own.

And, no I I do not work for Quantuma.

You should apply for the vacant communications and marketing job at Quantuma.

[Tyler Durden]

12 minutes ago, ilkleyram said:

But that's not true.  If a bidder buys the club for (say) £30m then they get the club trading as a business - season ticket and other income, TV income, sponsorship income, goodwill and all the other things that go with a football club.  They buy one of the founders of the league (at the moment) well managed by one of England's all time great players, they get training facilities and an academy with Cat1 status and a fantastic reputation in this area, they get one of the biggest fanbases in the lowest 3 divisions.  They buy potential - a club that's always looking to go upwards even if the trajectory might be the opposite way and they buy opportunity. 

Never (I suspect in the history of English football) will an owner have had such an opportunity to balance the books, to create a business model that works - the player wages/contracts will be the lowest they've ever been, not only in pounds, shillings and pence but also as a % of income.  And they buy a staff and fan group pretty demoralised by the events of the last 6 months off the pitch. In short they can create a club almost from scratch and turn negativity into positivity almost overnight.

We are, in short, one helluva opportunity for a purchaser with some seed money, with ambition, imagination and a willingness to achieve a lot in a short space of time.  And, relatively, cheap too - not necessarily in terms of how the deal stacks up as a deal but how much you might have to spend on a company giving you similar opportunities.  We can be profitable and we can be fun to own.

And, no I I do not work for Quantuma.

If its all that good why the lack of buyers kicking Quantumas door down 

[Chester40]

16 minutes ago, ilkleyram said:

And, no I I do not work for Quantuma.

That much is obvious mate!

[vonwright]

22 minutes ago, ilkleyram said:

We are, in short, one helluva opportunity for a purchaser with some seed money, with ambition, imagination and a willingness to achieve a lot in a short space of time. 

Sadly while I'd dearly love to believe this, the fact is not a single investor anywhere in the world seems to agree. (At least, not at the price we need them to pay.)

From an owner's point of view football is a pretty terrible investment unless you have good prospects of getting to the Premier League, or you are a benevolent local rich person/fan who is happy to lose money hand over fist.

If I'm an investor from outside Derby I'm looking at the initial outlay, rebuilding the squad, overcoming a likely 15pt penalty and further EFL restrictions in League One... getting anywhere near the Premier League looks mighty expensive and a very long way off.

Edited April 1, 2022 by vonwright

[Gaspode]

13 minutes ago, ilkleyram said:

But that's not true.  If a bidder buys the club for (say) £30m then they get the club trading as a business - season ticket and other income, TV income, sponsorship income, goodwill and all the other things that go with a football club.  They buy one of the founders of the league (at the moment) well managed by one of England's all time great players, they get training facilities and an academy with Cat1 status and a fantastic reputation in this area, they get one of the biggest fanbases in the lowest 3 divisions.  They buy potential - a club that's always looking to go upwards even if the trajectory might be the opposite way and they buy opportunity. 

Never (I suspect in the history of English football) will an owner have had such an opportunity to balance the books, to create a business model that works - the player wages/contracts will be the lowest they've ever been, not only in pounds, shillings and pence but also as a % of income.  And they buy a staff and fan group pretty demoralised by the events of the last 6 months off the pitch. In short they can create a club almost from scratch and turn negativity into positivity almost overnight.

We are, in short, one helluva opportunity for a purchaser with some seed money, with ambition, imagination and a willingness to achieve a lot in a short space of time.  And, relatively, cheap too - not necessarily in terms of how the deal stacks up as a deal but how much you might have to spend on a company giving you similar opportunities.  We can be profitable and we can be fun to own.

And, no I I do not work for Quantuma.

Great sales pitch, but out of all the positive things you've listed (and I like them a lot), I'm struggling to see how they add up to anywhere near £30M - and that's the real problem.....potential is great, but it doesn't make sense to pay over the odds for it. I'm also pretty sure that any new owner will take a look at the academy, look how PL clubs can steal our best talent away for a pitance and then shut it down - or at least greatly scale it back....

If you're Mike Ashley, this close to Q pulling the plug, it makes sense to sit back and wait, buy up whatever is left after we've been liquidated and begin again - sure the fanbase/attendances would take a hit (but it will in League One anyway), but it will come back, so you may get a lot of the positives for a fraction of the money needed to buy us now.....I'd love to be wrong, but I can't see hard-nosed business men paying what's need to take us over this late in the season, when it looks very likely that we'll be liquidated in a matter of weeks....

[Elwood P Dowd]

2 minutes ago, vonwright said:

Sadly while I'd dearly love to believe this, the fact is not a single investor anywhere in the world seems to agree. (At least, not at the price we need them to pay.)

Most football clubs are a money pit rather than a investment, the people that buy them  do so for a wide variety of reasons but usually making money isn’t one of them.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

1 hour ago, StrawHillRam said:

To quote Debbie Harry and Blondie -  One way or another I think we are getting close to the end of this debacle. 
No idea what the end looks like though

[Seth's left foot]

39 minutes ago, StrawHillRam said:

You should apply for the vacant communications and marketing job at Quantuma.

Can’t he apply for administrator… probably do a better job!

[jono]

24 minutes ago, Elwood P Dowd said:

Most football clubs are a money pit rather than a investment, the people that buy them  do so for a wide variety of reasons but usually making money isn’t one of them.

I think you’re right .. but as a vanity project you’d have some difficulty playing “the big I Am”  When your new status symbol club is starting next season at the bottom of the table and faces a huge fight to even stay in the 3rd tier. 
 

Perhaps Don Amott might rename Micklover sports, do a rental deal with Mel on PPS and we start again. It isn’t so ridiculous, sad though it is that we are in this position. I know it sounds daft but Saturday is my big day out. You go to a cathedral of the game. It’s the sense of an event. I’ve been to smaller grounds but somewhere like The Impact Arena is just to much of a struggle for even my most happy clappy instincts. We need a theatre worthy of the name of our great club. It might take a while to fill it but if it’s there then the players and the fans can make that happen together.

[curb]

32 minutes ago, jono said:

I think you’re right .. but as a vanity project you’d have some difficulty playing “the big I Am”  When your new status symbol club is starting next season at the bottom of the table and faces a huge fight to even stay in the 3rd tier. 
 

Perhaps Don Amott might rename Micklover sports, do a rental deal with Mel on PPS and we start again. It isn’t so ridiculous, sad though it is that we are in this position. I know it sounds daft but Saturday is my big day out. You go to a cathedral of the game. It’s the sense of an event. I’ve been to smaller grounds but somewhere like The Impact Arena is just to much of a struggle for even my most happy clappy instincts. We need a theatre worthy of the name of our great club. It might take a while to fill it but if it’s there then the players and the fans can make that happen together.

I was wondering if Don Amott would be considering that is well, it’s an opportunity for them to boost their fan base considerably.

They’d have to change colours though.

[May Contain Nuts]

Surely it would obliterate their fanbase, not boost it.

[atherstoneram]

1 hour ago, ilkleyram said:

But that's not true.  If a bidder buys the club for (say) £30m then they get the club trading as a business - season ticket and other income, TV income, sponsorship income, goodwill and all the other things that go with a football club.  They buy one of the founders of the league (at the moment) well managed by one of England's all time great players, they get training facilities and an academy with Cat1 status and a fantastic reputation in this area, they get one of the biggest fanbases in the lowest 3 divisions.  They buy potential - a club that's always looking to go upwards even if the trajectory might be the opposite way and they buy opportunity. 

Never (I suspect in the history of English football) will an owner have had such an opportunity to balance the books, to create a business model that works - the player wages/contracts will be the lowest they've ever been, not only in pounds, shillings and pence but also as a % of income.  And they buy a staff and fan group pretty demoralised by the events of the last 6 months off the pitch. In short they can create a club almost from scratch and turn negativity into positivity almost overnight.

We are, in short, one helluva opportunity for a purchaser with some seed money, with ambition, imagination and a willingness to achieve a lot in a short space of time.  And, relatively, cheap too - not necessarily in terms of how the deal stacks up as a deal but how much you might have to spend on a company giving you similar opportunities.  We can be profitable and we can be fun to own.

And, no I I do not work for Quantuma.

Perhaps you should,you've convinced me.

[1of4]

The more I listen to the rhetoric coming from Quantuma the more I'm convinced that there is more chance of us being liquidated than there is of a new owner being found willing to pay what Q want.

How are Q arriving at what they think is fair price for the club? 

If the club was to be liquidated this very minute, what money would Q be able to offer to the club's creditors?

What as the club stands today are it's actual assets? Rightly or wrongly I assume that the main assets are the players that will still be under contract at the end of the season. What the fees that could be obtained for these players is very subjective. Meaning any money raised could be far less than Q thinks they could get from their sale.

So why are Q not willing to accept one of the offers presently tabled? Wouldn't an offer that is more than the clubs current assets, be more acceptable to the creditors than what they would receive through the club being liquidated.

While the sale of the ground may muddy the water for any potential buyer. Surely the sale of the stadium is a matter that can only be resolved between the new club owner and morris and should have no baring on what the administrators are doing.

[The_Sheriff]

1 hour ago, ilkleyram said:

But that's not true.  If a bidder buys the club for (say) £30m then they get the club trading as a business - season ticket and other income, TV income, sponsorship income, goodwill and all the other things that go with a football club.  They buy one of the founders of the league (at the moment) well managed by one of England's all time great players, they get training facilities and an academy with Cat1 status and a fantastic reputation in this area, they get one of the biggest fanbases in the lowest 3 divisions.  They buy potential - a club that's always looking to go upwards even if the trajectory might be the opposite way and they buy opportunity. 

Never (I suspect in the history of English football) will an owner have had such an opportunity to balance the books, to create a business model that works - the player wages/contracts will be the lowest they've ever been, not only in pounds, shillings and pence but also as a % of income.  And they buy a staff and fan group pretty demoralised by the events of the last 6 months off the pitch. In short they can create a club almost from scratch and turn negativity into positivity almost overnight.

We are, in short, one helluva opportunity for a purchaser with some seed money, with ambition, imagination and a willingness to achieve a lot in a short space of time.  And, relatively, cheap too - not necessarily in terms of how the deal stacks up as a deal but how much you might have to spend on a company giving you similar opportunities.  We can be profitable and we can be fun to own.

And, no I I do not work for Quantuma.

Exactly this! So stop the brinkmamship get a deal done bidders

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

10 minutes ago, 1of4 said:

The more I listen to the rhetoric coming from Quantuma the more I'm convinced that there is more chance of us being liquidated than there is of a new owner being found willing to pay what Q want.

How are Q arriving at what they think is fair price for the club? 

If the club was to be liquidated this very minute, what money would Q be able to offer to the club's creditors?

What as the club stands today are it's actual assets? Rightly or wrongly I assume that the main assets are the players that will still be under contract at the end of the season. What the fees that could be obtained for these players is very subjective. Meaning any money raised could be far less than Q thinks they could get from their sale.

So why are Q not willing to accept one of the offers presently tabled? Wouldn't an offer that is more than the clubs current assets, be more acceptable to the creditors than what they would receive through the club being liquidated.

While the sale of the ground may muddy the water for any potential buyer. Surely the sale of the stadium is a matter that can only be resolved between the new club owner and morris and should have no baring on what the administrators are doing.

Not if we liquidate.  They can go elsewhere contract or not as the business isn't there to pay them.  

[curb]

23 minutes ago, Coconut's Beard said:

Surely it would obliterate their fanbase, not boost it.

Yes, on second thoughts, it’s a bit arrogant to think that their fans would want anything to do with it.

[The_Sheriff]

1 hour ago, Tyler Durden said:

If its all that good why the lack of buyers kicking Quantumas door down 

I would argue 95% of the other football league clubs would not attract any legitimate bidder if they were in our state.

The fact we do have bidders in our situation says a lot. Infact its the reason i believe we can avoid liquidation.   

We are an attractive club.

[curb]

13 minutes ago, 1of4 said:

How are Q arriving at what they think is fair price for the club? 

They’re not, as has been said many times, their job is to try and get the best deal for the creditors, which means selling it for the highest price possible.

But there is a minimum limit, set by the EFL, who won’t allow us to stay in the league without paying 100% to football creditors, a percentage that HMRC will accept, and a percentage to all other creditors, so they will have an absolute minimum figure that if a buyer isn’t prepare to pay then the club will be kicked out the league.

The second limit is the other creditors, which if the buyer doesn’t meet we get a points deduction next season, which isn’t quite as bad as liquidation, but makes it harder for us to recover, which in turn makes it less attractive for potential buyers, which in turn forces the value of the club down (a catch 22).

So according to the latest quantuma statement no buyer has so far come forward with a high enough bid to satisfy the first limit.

[ilkleyram]

1 hour ago, Gaspode said:

Great sales pitch, but out of all the positive things you've listed (and I like them a lot), I'm struggling to see how they add up to anywhere near £30M - and that's the real problem.....potential is great, but it doesn't make sense to pay over the odds for it. I'm also pretty sure that any new owner will take a look at the academy, look how PL clubs can steal our best talent away for a pitance and then shut it down - or at least greatly scale it back....

If you're Mike Ashley, this close to Q pulling the plug, it makes sense to sit back and wait, buy up whatever is left after we've been liquidated and begin again - sure the fanbase/attendances would take a hit (but it will in League One anyway), but it will come back, so you may get a lot of the positives for a fraction of the money needed to buy us now.....I'd love to be wrong, but I can't see hard-nosed business men paying what's need to take us over this late in the season, when it looks very likely that we'll be liquidated in a matter of weeks....

You're correct, of course, but also wrong, and any new owner will make some tough decisions, depending on the division we're in, who the manager is, what players we have still and what we don't.  One of those decisions will be about the academy and the decision may be different if we're still in the Championship.  Chris Coles says on Radio Derby that 'there's practically no one left at Moor Farm now' so the opportunity to start again is significant.

If you buy a house needing work on it the investment decisions you make will vary according to your long term goals.  If you want to flip it on again after 6 months then you buy as cheap as you can, buy cheap fittings, don't knock walls down or put an expensive kitchen in, you put enough money into it to sell at maximum profit.  Very different if you aim to keep it for 15 years, have a family, continue to live in the area etc.  In short you invest not only for the potential but also for the fun you will have living there

So, Derby's potential is important, has a value that changes over the years

[jono]

52 minutes ago, curb said:

I was wondering if Don Amott would be considering that is well, it’s an opportunity for them to boost their fan base considerably.

They’d have to change colours though.

Sporting Derby County FC ? .. might just allow their studs or sock garters  to be red but I can’t go further than that ?