The Administration Thread

[Andicis]

2 minutes ago, Gritstone Tup said:

I’ve posted Ashley’s conversation with Derbyshire live.

No nothing has changed with regard to Boro claims, this has been on the table for over 12 months.

Ashley did not have a conversation with journalists. There is 0 quotes from Ashley in that article. That is the journalists using sources and other knowledge and putting things together. It shouldn't be taken as gospel. 

Apart from things clearly have been moving? You think nothing has changed in relation to Boro's legal case over a 12 month period? If the admins said they were in a position to announce the preferred bidder when they did, I assume they were told they would be allowed to deal with it after the takeover was completed. Clearly something changed for whatever reason. 

[Gritstone Tup]

2 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Ashley did not have a conversation with journalists. There is 0 quotes from Ashley in that article. That is the journalists using sources and other knowledge and putting things together. It shouldn't be taken as gospel. 

Apart from things clearly have been moving? You think nothing has changed in relation to Boro's legal case over a 12 month period? If the admins said they were in a position to announce the preferred bidder when they did, I assume they were told they would be allowed to deal with it after the takeover was completed. Clearly something changed for whatever reason. 

We’ll have to agree to disagree buddy!

[IslandExile]

54 minutes ago, Gritstone Tup said:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/Derby-county-takeover-mike-ashley-6519706.amp
 

I don’t like the sound of this story at all.

1) Ashley is waiting for hmrc to strike a deal, very unlikely in my opinion flood gates would open.

2) He wants the creditors to have already accepted a deal from the administrators. That takes time we haven’t got.

3) He’s prepared to take it to the wire, we certainly can’t afford anyone else playing silly beggars with our club.

This is probably Simon Jordan’s epiphany he mentioned this morning. Great!!!!

Come back Kirchner. Come back Appleby. MSD.

Alonso, the Shiekh, anyone.

Mel-2? Ok too far. But somebody, please save our club.

Edited January 19, 2022 by IslandExile

[Ramifications]

I still think if it turns out to be Ashley, he would not want to be associated with a club in the lower divisions. He would want to be associated with the bigger teams. It's a business for him after all. 

At the end of the day, it's all about money. 

Edited January 19, 2022 by Ramifications
Added content

[S8TY]

lets get one thing straight here ...the EFL is not allowing us to be taken over due to pending claims from two parasite clubs both of which should not be happening whilst we are in admin

the EFL are allowing this to happen and could solve all of this tomorrow by saying that they have dealt with DCFC and given us points deductions and transfer embargoes.

But all the time they let the tail wag the dog with claims from parasite teams effectively stopping anyone buying the club we are going nowhere...Instead of trying to get 4 parties to agree Us,EFL, ParasiteFC1 and ParasiteFC2 which will be difficult just have some balls EFL and tell them we have been dealt with and acted on there advice and got paperwork in to the EFL's deadlines

Stop fannying around with our future...grow some balls and do what you're supposed to do and take governence of this situation then tell them that the EFL will deal directly with any misdemeanours and the buck stops with them....

 

This is what it will take so grow a pair EFL and you might actually go up in some people's estimations !!

[i-Ram]

28 minutes ago, Ramifications said:

I still think if it turns out to be Ashley, he would not want to be associated with a club in the lower divisions. He would want to be associated with the bigger teams. It's a business for him after all. 

At the end of the day, it's all about money. 

Actually it’s all about return on investment. The cheaper he can buy DCFC, given its stadium, academy, history and fanbase, the greater his upside potential. He will be happy to take a 5 to 10 year view on securing that return.

[Leeds Ram]

1 minute ago, i-Ram said:

Actually it’s all about return on investment. The cheaper he can buy DCFC, given its stadium, academy, history and fanbase, the greater his upside potential. He will be happy to take a 5 to 10 year view on securing that return.

Depends on the operating loss at the club though? Even if he bought us for a quid if the debts accrued are too high to make us too risky then he'll just walk away and not buy us. I think this is the big issue with wycombe and Boro, the potential liability is so high it makes us completely unattractive. Even if we settled with Boro for 10-15 million and wycombe for 2-3 million it makes me wonder if any investor is willing to fork that over to save us. 

[IslandExile]

[peakram]

23 minutes ago, S8TY said:

lets get one thing straight here ...the EFL is not allowing us to be taken over due to pending claims from two parasite clubs both of which should not be happening whilst we are in admin

the EFL are allowing this to happen and could solve all of this tomorrow by saying that they have dealt with DCFC and given us points deductions and transfer embargoes.

But all the time they let the tail wag the dog with claims from parasite teams effectively stopping anyone buying the club we are going nowhere...Instead of trying to get 4 parties to agree Us,EFL, ParasiteFC1 and ParasiteFC2 which will be difficult just have some balls EFL and tell them we have been dealt with and acted on there advice and got paperwork in to the EFL's deadlines

Stop fannying around with our future...grow some balls and do what you're supposed to do and take governence of this situation then tell them that the EFL will deal directly with any misdemeanours and the buck stops with them....

 

This is what it will take so grow a pair EFL and you might actually go up in some people's estimations !!

They are very happy for Derby to be sued and in fact encouraging it so as not to get sued themselves, this has been admitted by Rick Parry on the radio today, absolutely disgraceful  and shameful behaviour. Then have the gall to say they are trying their best to help, no better than Morris himself!

[Ambitious]

The EFL are worried about covering their own arses, evidently, so I wouldn’t count on them for any support in the short term.

I also believe that Middlesbrough and Wycombe see the latest developments as nothing more than postering so that they drop their respective claims, certainly the latter. Gibson, honestly, I don’t know as I think he is all in and does not care one jot whether Derby County survives or not. I think both have put their foot down so whoever takes over the club, if anyone does, will have to agree to take on the liability. 

I do know that the club is in a far worse state than we ever imagined and I also believe that Mel put the club into administration to avoid the legal challenges from Wycombe and Middlesbrough himself. At least it was one of the reasons he did so, despite telling us at the time that it was for our own good.

As we stand today, it’s the first time I’ve felt there is more chance of there not being a Derby County in the future than there is, perhaps at a 40/60 level of confidence. I have never been against the club starting again, in order to rid the disease that’s manifested itself into Derby County. We’ve had 3 or 4 years now dominated by off the field financial issues and a takeover doesn’t remedy that for a long time. Honestly, it’s just jarring to be a fan. I’d take a non-league club, providing we can continue to use the stadium and the fans continue to turn up, over indefinite court battles, transfer embargo’s, point deductions and threats from the EFL to kick us out the league. Anything that allows me to focus PURELY on the football again, at whatever level, without the other noise that comes with it. I don’t watch Derby for their high level of football or competition. I watch them because I enjoy the sport and that’s the team I support. It really doesn’t bother me at what level. 

All that being said, it would be good to see light at the end of the tunnel. Relegation or not, if we get a takeover without a future point deduction, transfer embargo or legal battles then I would be delighted. I just don’t think that’s possible, regardless of the outcome, unless we start from scratch. 

[Rev]

21 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

Depends on the operating loss at the club though? Even if he bought us for a quid if the debts accrued are too high to make us too risky then he'll just walk away and not buy us. I think this is the big issue with wycombe and Boro, the potential liability is so high it makes us completely unattractive. Even if we settled with Boro for 10-15 million and wycombe for 2-3 million it makes me wonder if any investor is willing to fork that over to save us. 

To settle for those amounts, you'd have to show that Boro made £10-£15m profit across the season they were in the PL, and in the following years in the championship with parachute payments. Even if that were true, which I doubt, you'd be looking at 25% of that amount to allow for the fact we denied them a 1/4 chance of promotion, disregarding form and opponents.

Wycombes claim can get in the bin.

[Leeds Ram]

8 minutes ago, Rev said:

To settle for those amounts, you'd have to show that Boro made £10-£15m profit across the season they were in the PL, and in the following years in the championship with parachute payments. Even if that were true, which I doubt, you'd be looking at 25% of that amount to allow for the fact we denied them a 1/4 chance of promotion, disregarding form and opponents.

Wycombes claim can get in the bin.

If Boro's claims are even close to the 40 million  being reported then getting them round the table to solve the issue which is what gets us out of this mess isn't likely to be solved by offering them 2-3 million. The administrators have already said no buyer is willing to touch us with these claims hanging over us so they've either got to be settled or we need to find several million quid over the next 11 days. In addition if we do fight it out we've got to hope the arbitration process ends before the start of next season when if we're still in administration they fold us up anyway. The more I think about it the more I think the club will die a death by a thousand cuts. If we settle on numbers that could drive away interested parties as it'd likely be a very big number, fight and lose then we're done, fight and it takes too long and we're done too. 

Edited January 20, 2022 by Leeds Ram

[Rev]

7 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

If Boro's claims are even close to the 40 million  being reported then getting them round the table to solve the issue which is what gets us out of this mess isn't likely to be solved by offering them 2-3 million. The administrators have already said no buyer is willing to touch us with these claims hanging over us so they've either got to be settled or we need to find several million quid over the next 11 days. In addition if we do fight it out we've got to hope the arbitration process ends before the start of next season when if we're still in administration they fold us up anyway. The more I think about it the more I think the club will die a death by a thousand cuts. If we settle on numbers that could drive away interested parties as it'd likely be a very big number, fight and lose then we're done, fight and it takes too long and we're done too. 

The Boro numbers are there in Black and White though, excuse the pun. 

They were recently promoted, and relegated with parachute payments to follow. 

All we need to do is look at their publicly available accounts, and work out how much profit from promotion, and the following seasons they actually made. That will give us a figure we can argue about, rather than a plucked from the air figure that suits Gibson.

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

If Boro's claims are even close to the 40 million  being reported then getting them round the table to solve the issue which is what gets us out of this mess isn't likely to be solved by offering them 2-3 million.

3 hours ago, Brailsford Ram said:

Derby were beaten to promotion by Leicester, QPR, Bournemouth,Villa and others who all breached P&S to get there but we just left the EFL to deal with the matter as they saw fit. When we were found out, Gibson threatened to sue the EFL because they had allowed Derby to cheat. The EFL had allowed us to cheat just like they had all the others before us because they did not have an efficient regulatory framework in place to prevent the breaches.

The EFL were in a corner with Gibson and they got out of it by telling him to make a claim against Derby, not them and they would support him. It is a corrupt can of worms and we are the victims. We have been victimised with embargoes and restrictions so that the EFL can get themselves off the hook and satisfy Gibson. That is not a conspiracy theory, it is a reasonable and likely hypothesis that a senior criminal investigating officer, looking into this matter, would be entitled to arrive at following the information we have been given about today's meeting between the administrators and the MPs.

I think the EFL now have very serious questions to answer about how they have treated Derby County. Parliament yesterday put them on notice to get their act together. Today's disclosures have amplified the need for them to heed that warning. I actually think that today has been as good as yesterday in moving us nearer to a resolution of our predicament.

In view of my observations above I do not think we should be even entertaining Middlesbrough around a table. I think we should now be going on the attack against them and the EFL and attempt to expose their corrupt vendetta against us for the charade that it is. I was a senior criminal investigating officer, in a force outside Derbyshire, with 40 years experience - 25 of them at the senior level I have referred to. From what has been placed in the public domain today it suggests that the EFL has used DCFC as a Trojan Horse to deflect their own liability towards us in a collusive deal with Middlesbrough. As a result we have been subjected to unjustified punitive transfer embargoes and restrictions on top of the 21 points penalty we have accepted.

If I was still at work and in receipt of a complaint about this matter, I would be conducting dawn raids at the EFL and the Riverside Stadium tomorrow to secure evidence. I will be passing my observations to the administrators tomorrow because this is too late in the day for anyone to be fiddling while Derby is burning.

If the EFL, Middlesbrough and Wycombe want a fight, now is the time for us to take them on because the intervention of the politicians has brought about exposure of the wrongs that have been inflicted on our club.

We should now be taking off the gloves and fighting back if we are to survive.

[Sparkle]

3 hours ago, Brailsford Ram said:

In view of my observations above I do not think we should be even entertaining Middlesbrough around a table. I think we should now be going on the attack against them and the EFL and attempt to expose their corrupt vendetta against us for the charade that it is. I was a senior criminal investigating officer, in a force outside Derbyshire, with 40 years experience - 25 of them at the senior level I have referred to. From what has been placed in the public domain today it suggests that the EFL has used DCFC as a Trojan Horse to deflect their own liability towards us in a collusive deal with Middlesbrough. As a result we have been subjected to unjustified punitive transfer embargoes and restrictions on top of the 21 points penalty we have accepted.

If I was still at work and in receipt of a complaint about this matter, I would be conducting dawn raids at the EFL and the Riverside Stadium tomorrow to secure evidence. I will be passing my observations to the administrators tomorrow because this is too late in the day for anyone to be fiddling while Derby is burning.

If the EFL, Middlesbrough and Wycombe want a fight, now is the time for us to take them on because the intervention of the politicians has brought about exposure of the wrongs that have been inflicted on our club.

We should now be taking off the gloves and fighting back if we are to survive.

I too have been very suspicious of the collusion between the Middlesbrough owner and some of his employees and the EFL for a while and everything that has been happening to our football club, you appear to know how to go about bringing that relationship to the wider world and I fully support you. That’s the diplomatic bit 

Have they transgressed business law? 
Have they been complicit to harm a competitor and a member?

Have they colluded to treat Derby differently to other clubs and is there evidence of it?

is the potential collusion a criminal act? 
there are probably a lot more questions and if we do or don’t survive the situation we are now in they should all be fully  investigated  and whilst I fully acknowledge Derby’s failings a tremendous amount of harm has been placed onto Derby by both the EFL and  people at Middlesbrough football club which have been designed to harm the successful running of the buisness by either the former owner or potential new owners.

[Rich84]

5 hours ago, Rev said:

The Boro numbers are there in Black and White though, excuse the pun. 

They were recently promoted, and relegated with parachute payments to follow. 

All we need to do is look at their publicly available accounts, and work out how much profit from promotion, and the following seasons they actually made. That will give us a figure we can argue about, rather than a plucked from the air figure that suits Gibson.

Come on guys, there are plenty in here that seem to pop in and out of Companies House on a daily basis.....

What are their profit/loss numbers from their last spell in the prem and parachute years?

Alternatively,  it has to be the lost revenue from the PO games themselves.

These are what the 'starting' point for discussion has to be, then argue that it wasn't guaranteed anyway so the max they could win in a court or arbitration is the numbers above! 

[jono]

9 hours ago, RandomAccessMemory said:

 

It’s like they’ve opened the regulations, searched for the word compensation, and run with it.

Unless there’s another rule 92.2.5 somewhere and I quoted the wrong one? But I found that one and it seemed to fit what with mentioning paying compensation.

You have to laugh at 92.1 = which roughly translates as  “we can make it up as we go along”  

 

[jono]

Here’s one for Mr Gibson.

So Derby gained an advantage due to profligate spending ?

What were the the player wages and transfer fees at Boro during the same period ?

How does this compare to Derby ? 

I contend that there was no advantage whatsoever. 

There was a technical breach of FFP/P+S for which Derby have been punished

 

[BramcoteRam84]

16 minutes ago, jono said:

Here’s one for Mr Gibson.

So Derby gained an advantage due to profligate spending ?

What were the the player wages and transfer fees at Boro during the same period ?

How does this compare to Derby ? 

I contend that there was no advantage whatsoever. 

There was a technical breach of FFP/P+S for which Derby have been punished

 

Middlesbrough spent more on both! Boro had 4th highest wage bill that season Derby 9th highest. If budget directly correlates to success (seems to be Boro’s argument), Derby overachieved and Boro underachieved.

Makes their argument a nonsense. 

[PistoldPete]

6 hours ago, peakram said:

They are very happy for Derby to be sued and in fact encouraging it so as not to get sued themselves, this has been admitted by Rick Parry on the radio today, absolutely disgraceful  and shameful behaviour. Then have the gall to say they are trying their best to help, no better than Morris himself!

What radio was this? Do you have a link?