Where Rooney ranks compared to other Rams managers

[IslandExile]

7 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Who signed him?

It was Dave Mackay but, as @ilkleyram says, he didn't play in the Championship winning season.

[Chester40]

Rooney has managed for more games than everybody else below/around him. Obviously that record leads to a sacking generally...not saying he deserves that right now but some of the praise for him is OTT at times.

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, Chester40 said:

Rooney has managed for more games than everybody else below/around him. Obviously that record leads to a sacking generally...not saying he deserves that right now but some of the praise for him is OTT at times.

Can you perhaps tell me of times at Derby such as we've been going through for the past two seasons? No money, few players, transfer embargo, selling the club but not, administration...etc?

[Tyler Durden]

12 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Peter Taylor had some really good players , just that most of them were well past it or always injured.

Kenny Burns, Archie Gemmill, John Robertson, Steve Powell, Steve Buckley, Paul Futcher. Bobby Davison.   Even Roy McFarland occasionally and Dave Watson.

 

Sounds exactly like the Dad's Army Rooney has at his disposal.

[Tyler Durden]

11 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Can you perhaps tell me of times at Derby such as we've been going through for the past two seasons? No money, few players, transfer embargo, selling the club but not, administration...etc?

There's massive synergies between the squad Rooney has available and the one Peter Taylor had - regardless of how the squads came about or were inherited by each respective manager. 

Am sure Taylor inherited the club when we were bottom of the league and got us to mid table by the end of that season. Pretty certain as well that the income from the FA Cup run the following season helped stave off the club going into administration (ring any bells).

[PistoldPete]

23 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Sounds exactly like the Dad's Army Rooney has at his disposal.

Yeah I was thinking that, two ex England centre backs. I think Rooney has some better youngsters though. Also competition tougher now in the Championship than it was nearly 40 years ago. 

[RoyMac5]

16 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

There's massive synergies between the squad Rooney has available and the one Peter Taylor had - regardless of how the squads came about or were inherited by each respective manager. 

Am sure Taylor inherited the club when we were bottom of the league and got us to mid table by the end of that season. Pretty certain as well that the income from the FA Cup run the following season helped stave off the club going into administration (ring any bells).

So that's (debatably, plus were we in admin and/or being sold?) one period of similarity and the manager was the inexperienced Peter Taylor. Not mentioning no fans and a pandemic of course.

Edited December 16, 2021 by RoyMac5

[Jimbo Ram]

1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said:

So that's (debatably, plus were we in admin and/or being sold?) one period of similarity and the manager was the inexperienced Peter Taylor.

Both had it tough but the experience of Taylor wins the day ?

[TINMANTED]

34 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Sounds exactly like the Dad's Army Rooney has at his disposal.

if we had a bobby davison now,we would not be in the relegation fight

[Tyler Durden]

9 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

So that's (debatably, plus were we in admin and/or being sold?) one period of similarity and the manager was the inexperienced Peter Taylor. Not mentioning no fans and a pandemic of course.

I said the circumstances of each manager inheriting the squads they did is not important, what is important is that both managers inherited and oversaw playing squads mostly full of cack. 

And in the final analysis Taylor, with the same player restrictions as Rooney, fared better than his counterpart. 

So I don't buy this no other manager could do as well as Rooney line.

[RoyMac5]

4 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

I said the circumstances of each manager inheriting the squads they did is not important, what is important is that both managers inherited and oversaw playing squads mostly full of cack. 

And in the final analysis Taylor, with the same player restrictions as Rooney, fared better than his counterpart. 

So I don't buy this no other manager could do as well as Rooney line.

It's still debateable even if you're excluding external factors like no fans and covid!

Wiki: "Taylor took over as manager of Derby County in November 1982, to the great surprise of most people in the game. He brought in Roy McFarland as his assistant, and signed Archie Gemmill and Bobby Davison."

Who is Rooney's Bobby Davison?

Edited December 16, 2021 by RoyMac5

[Tyler Durden]

5 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

It's still debateable even if you're excluding external factors like no fans and covid!

Wiki: "Taylor took over as manager of Derby County in November 1982, to the great surprise of most people in the game. He brought in Roy McFarland as his assistant, and signed Archie Gemmill and Bobby Davison."

Who is Rooney's Bobby Davison?

I'm not even going to attempt to compare each player by player - as a comparison both squads were crap.

The generalisation is that no other manager could have done so well with the resources Rooney has at his disposal in playing staff, I'm merely comparing and contrasting to challenge this sacred cow. 

 

[Jimbo Ram]

10 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

It's still debateable even if you're excluding external factors like no fans and covid!

Wiki: "Taylor took over as manager of Derby County in November 1982, to the great surprise of most people in the game. He brought in Roy McFarland as his assistant, and signed Archie Gemmill and Bobby Davison."

Who is Rooney's Bobby Davison?

Seem to remember Taylor having to throw on an ageing Dave Watson upfront in the Cup match v Plymouth….he didn’t have the luxury of an academy with the likes of Knight, Bird, Sibley, Festy and Buchanan at his disposal like Wazza has…..just a poor, ageing squad, many over the hill ?

[Van der MoodHoover]

5 hours ago, Kathcairns said:

Surely you have got to take into account what divisions they were managers in. Everybody knows it's harder to win games in the prem.

Does that mean sir Brian and lord Arthur don't count as they never managed us in the Prem and everyone knows football was only invented in 1992.....?

 

[jono]

6 hours ago, 1977 Ram Raider said:

Brian Clough joint third with Paul Clement, just wow. ?

And that’s it in the proverbial nutshell….  I often self criticise and reflect when I think how my Granddad and Dad did in business compared to my mundane efforts but when I really stand back far enough I know that so much of where we are and what we did or do is dependant on the world, history, the industry, the rub of the green and circumstances .. Perspective and achievement relative to starting point, circumstances and luck is 95% of everything. There’s 5% in the mix for talent and god given skill, the rest… is what it is and you make the best of it, play your best cards and sweat  as much as you can. Silk purses from sows ears are not easily made, whoever you are. 

[Jimbo Ram]

23 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

I'm not even going to attempt to compare each player by player - as a comparison both squads were crap.

The generalisation is that no other manager could have done so well with the resources Rooney has at his disposal in playing staff, I'm merely comparing and contrasting to challenge this sacred cow. 

 

Just looked at the team that played the Greens in the Cup match….for me only Cherry, Bobby and Kevin Wilson would get in to the current Rams team….

[Kathcairns]

13 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

Does that mean sir Brian and lord Arthur don't count as they never managed us in the Prem and everyone knows football was only invented in 1992.....?

 

1992 was when football was ruined, to much money.

[Crewton]

2 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

It's still debateable even if you're excluding external factors like no fans and covid!

Wiki: "Taylor took over as manager of Derby County in November 1982, to the great surprise of most people in the game. He brought in Roy McFarland as his assistant, and signed Archie Gemmill and Bobby Davison."

Who is Rooney's Bobby Davison?

Exactly. 

Davison scored 18 goals in 83/84, when Derby were facing liquidation. Does anyone doubt that sticking a striker capable of scoring 18 goals into Rooney's team wouldn't greatly improve his win ratio? 

Rooney hasn't been able to spend a penny, but some posters have no problem taking the p*** ? 

[Wistaston Ram]

1 minute ago, Crewton said:

Exactly. 

Davison scored 18 goals in 83/84, when Derby were facing liquidation. Does anyone doubt that sticking a striker capable of scoring 18 goals into Rooney's team wouldn't greatly improve his win ratio? 

Rooney hasn't been able to spend a penny, but some posters have no problem taking the p*** ? 

Who remembers the remarkable upturn in form in the previous season (82/83)? -  somehow escaping relegation in that infamous last game v Fulham and Bobby D netting the winner.  This season has so many parallels with that time and as has been pointed out, if we had Bobby in this team then another great escape might be on the cards.

[europia]

9 hours ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

 

The stats say Nigel Clough was unimpressive, most fans were pretty ground down by the years of austerity football, but the board were happy with him throughout because he was competitive for the budgets he had and managed a huge cost cutting and rebuild without tanking the club.

 

If we avoid liquidation, supporters should probably prepare for more of the same. 

Edited December 16, 2021 by europia