Discriminatory abuse

[Tyler Durden]

2 minutes ago, OUTSIDER said:

OK ?

There's another international Premiership footballer currently under investigation for similar offenses too but their name is protected from being reported in the UK press. 

[Archied]

7 hours ago, Crewton said:

So is the general consensus on here that, although a Derby player appears to have received discriminatory abuse yesterday, the real issue is that our fans have done worse? Cos I'm a bit confused... 

what I picked up on the issue your confused about was that some were saying it’s a Millwall thing rather than a scumbags in society thing ??‍♂️, we really need to do away with 5he identity politics/ labelling of both the victims and perpetrators of this stuff and have just two identities, decent people and scumbags 

[Archied]

6 hours ago, Crewton said:

There's plenty of people on Twitter though identifying the player and describing the most likely point at which it occurred. 

I'd suggest, perhaps, that in 2021, anti-catholic/Irish Republican abuse is not the societal problem that discrimination based on skin colour is (which, I'm guessing, is what happened here) but the sticker?poster? at Barnsley has attracted far more comment and has, IMO, obscured what happened yesterday, on this particular thread.

'Nuff said.

You are very out of touch wrong on the scale of sectarian problems , perhaps you just don’t come across it or didn’t grown up with it around you ??‍♂️

[B4ev6is]

16 minutes ago, Archied said:

You are very out of touch wrong on the scale of sectarian problems , perhaps you just don’t come across it or didn’t grown up with it around you ??‍♂️

Well no abuse should not be tolerated at all.

[jono]

51 minutes ago, Archied said:

what I picked up on the issue your confused about was that some were saying it’s a Millwall thing rather than a scumbags in society thing ??‍♂️, we really need to do away with 5he identity politics/ labelling of both the victims and perpetrators of this stuff and have just two identities, decent people and scumbags 

Bravo

Everywhere we need to do this. Politics, race, economics, sport, disabilities, employers and individuals 

Everyone makes errors , no one is perfect, we can all learn, there’s everything from a slip up, a moment of red mist, lack of factual info, misunderstanding, even lack of brains …. but in the end what was your intent ? and show me your working out. If we do this we can depolarise so much in society ( pssst mods this is sociology not politics … I think !  ?) 

[CWC1983]

10 hours ago, Gritstone Ram said:

I believe the no surrender came back in the 80’s when English fans were running riot across the world. Some Rangers fans were looking at setting up a Scottish firm but had two problems. 1. They hardly qualified for any tournaments and 2. When they did they ended up taking a load of blokes wearing tartan skirts and ginger wigs and no one could take them serious. So the Rangers fans decided to do what could only be described as an act of treason and sided up with the English. That is where the chant came from.

Correct, Scotland didn't qualify for anything apart from 82 World cup, 86 World cup, 90 World cup, 92 Euros, 96 Euro's, 98 World cup

In the 90's there was a brief East Coast firm following Scotland, Aberdeen/ Hibs/ Dundee and Utd. 

 

[GB SPORTS]

15 minutes ago, CWC1983 said:

Correct, Scotland didn't qualify for anything apart from 82 World cup, 86 World cup, 90 World cup, 92 Euros, 96 Euro's, 98 World cup

In the 90's there was a brief East Coast firm following Scotland, Aberdeen/ Hibs/ Dundee and Utd. 

 

Forgot the 78 World Cup lol.

[Miggins]

12 hours ago, Archied said:

Traditionally it’s a fear and stupidity thing , people scared of anybody different and scared to go against the herd 

I think it's much more deeply rooted in our psychology as a people.

Thousands of years ago we were right to fear anyone different approaching our villages. We had no idea whether they were friends or enemies. Whilst we knew everyone in our tight community, strangers were viewed as a potentially hostile, potential enemy. It was sensible to be cautious and on your guard and definitely not stupid reaction. The herd instinct we still retain speaks for itself! Safety in numbers, less chance of being picked off. Stick with your supportive community and they will protect you. Not scared to go against the herd, but recognizing the benefit of being part of something larger and supportive in uncertain times.

Fear of strangers, apprehension about anyone different is probably even now written into our natural survival instinct.

Abuse or hostility against anyone who is seen to be 'different' is totally unacceptable these days. We view it as moronic, stupid and uneducated and rightly so, but I sometimes think that whilst there have been so many advances in civilizations over the past thousands of years, perhaps our basic fear of anyone different to us and our reluctance to go against the herd is slow to catch up.

Just re read the above and it seems so heavy, my apologies. Just trying to understand the root of abusive behaviour. ?

 

[blue texel ram]

3 hours ago, OUTSIDER said:

this s*x offender chant is every where now, i dont get it. sung at welsh game and heard it on the united city game yesterday, cant remember who it was at but  heard it clear on TV

The chant was sung by City fans to a Utd player who was accused of some misdemeanours in Vegas a few years back 

[Miggins]

6 minutes ago, blue texel ram said:

The chant was sung by City fans to a Utd player who was accused of some misdemeanours in Vegas a few years back 

I guess it's sung to upset the player and the team and put them off their game and is a fan tactic to help their team win, but for me it's a really hateful and cheap way to attack the opposition.

[Ram-Alf]

30 minutes ago, Miggins said:

I think it's much more deeply rooted in our psychology as a people.

Thousands of years ago we were right to fear anyone different approaching our villages. We had no idea whether they were friends or enemies. Whilst we knew everyone in our tight community, strangers were viewed as a potentially hostile, potential enemy. It was sensible to be cautious and on your guard and definitely not stupid reaction. The herd instinct we still retain speaks for itself! Safety in numbers, less chance of being picked off. Stick with your supportive community and they will protect you. Not scared to go against the herd, but recognizing the benefit of being part of something larger and supportive in uncertain times.

Fear of strangers, apprehension about anyone different is probably even now written into our natural survival instinct.

 

 

That's not far off, Before we were called Britain we were a mix of tribes, Brigantes, Icini, Trinovantes and so on, They'd fight each other, Take each other as slaves, Pinch their animals and so on, Then along came the Romans...3 times, Julius Ceaser twice and went home around 45BC thinking there's Sod all here, Then again in 55AD and stayed until 410  Romans, Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Vikings, Normans all came, Saw and gave us a bloody nose, They all either left or stayed and mixed with the locals, We're a Heinz 57 variety of races.

We learned from all of the above, Britain is/was a fighting Nation, We then exported our prowess on other Nations for 100s of years ending with the British Empire, Now thank heaven called the Commonwealth, History has shown all that what Rome started Britain Finished.

As the saying goes...what have the Romans done for us!

[Foreveram]

4 hours ago, Unlucky Alf said:

That's not far off, Before we were called Britain we were a mix of tribes, Brigantes, Icini, Trinovantes and so on, They'd fight each other, Take each other as slaves, Pinch their animals and so on, Then along came the Romans...3 times, Julius Ceaser twice and went home around 45BC thinking there's Sod all here, Then again in 55AD and stayed until 410  Romans, Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Vikings, Normans all came, Saw and gave us a bloody nose, They all either left or stayed and mixed with the locals, We're a Heinz 57 variety of races.

We learned from all of the above, Britain is/was a fighting Nation, We then exported our prowess on other Nations for 100s of years ending with the British Empire, Now thank heaven called the Commonwealth, History has shown all that what Rome started Britain Finished.

As the saying goes...what have the Romans done for us!

The aqueduct 

[BathRam72]

On 06/11/2021 at 20:15, RoyMac5 said:

It must be a youth thing, but what does that even mean?

I think the pope is getting drunk

[G STAR RAM]

22 hours ago, Crewton said:

So is the general consensus on here that, although a Derby player appears to have received discriminatory abuse yesterday, the real issue is that our fans have done worse? Cos I'm a bit confused... 

That was not the point I was intending to make.

More that, responding to the incident by saying Millwall are a vile little club with vile little fans is a bit of a case of the pot calling the kettle...

[ariotofmyown]

12 hours ago, Miggins said:

I guess it's sung to upset the player and the team and put them off their game and is a fan tactic to help their team win, but for me it's a really hateful and cheap way to attack the opposition.

Usually yes, but the allegations against Ronaldo are pretty serious, plus the accuser was paid off.

[Crewton]

14 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

That was not the point I was intending to make.

More that, responding to the incident by saying Millwall are a vile little club with vile little fans is a bit of a case of the pot calling the kettle...

It's still a valid opinion. The two things aren't mutually exclusive and this idea that you can't criticise Millwall fans because we have some vile fans too is a great example of how debate gets shut down on social media. 

 

[G STAR RAM]

6 minutes ago, Crewton said:

It's still a valid opinion. The two things aren't mutually exclusive and this idea that you can't criticise Millwall fans because we have some vile fans too is a great example of how debate gets shut down on social media. 

Not sure why it is shutting down the debate?

Just think it is a bit rich for us to be referring to Millwall fans and Millwall as a club as vile on the back of ALLEGATIONS where none of us know (a) what was said (b) who to/by and; (c) in what context.

 

[Archied]

14 minutes ago, Crewton said:

It's still a valid opinion. The two things aren't mutually exclusive and this idea that you can't criticise Millwall fans because we have some vile fans too is a great example of how debate gets shut down on social media. 

 

You can say millwall have SOME vile fans what you can’t say if you are not double standards on discrimination is millwall is a vile club with vile fans , they have some very decent fans but your generalisation of millwall as a club and it’s fans casts many decent people as vile ?‍♂️, that is how discrimination works , I’m always stunned that people who are against discrimination can’t see they are doing the same thing and think it’s acceptable, from what I can see ALL clubs and they’re decent fans are sick to the back teeth of this kind of stuff in grounds and outside and have been trying for some time to stamp it out 

Edited November 8, 2021 by Archied

[Crewton]

26 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Not sure why it is shutting down the debate?

Just think it is a bit rich for us to be referring to Millwall fans and Millwall as a club as vile on the back of ALLEGATIONS where none of us know (a) what was said (b) who to/by and; (c) in what context.

 

Because it deflects from and obscures the original issue. I've seen exactly the same kind of defences and counter-accusations all over social media, not one expressing any concern that a player may have been racially abused. It's absolutely classic trolling. 

[PistoldPete]

24 minutes ago, Archied said:

You can say millwall have SOME vile fans what you can’t say if you are not double standards on discrimination is millwall is a vile club with vile fans , they have some very decent fans but your generalisation of millwall as a club and it’s fans casts many decent people as vile ?‍♂️, that is how discrimination works , I’m always stunned that people who are against discrimination can’t see they are doing the same thing and think it’s acceptable, from what I can see ALL clubs and they’re decent fans are sick to the back teeth of this kind of stuff in grounds and outside and have been trying for some time to stamp it out 

To be fair , I have known a few Millwall fans and I can’t find any exceptions to the rule that they are vile. Plus Millwall are managed  by rattlesnake Rowett. Mason Bennett didn’t exactly endear himself either. But I get your drift.