Derby finally accept 21 point deduction.

[Tamworthram]

6 minutes ago, Macintosh said:

I can't agree on filling up the side with loan signings, unless they were try before you buy. Loans signings for a doomed side would basically be paying other teams' player's wages and their development, doing them a favour and achieving nothing for our club. Last term we brought in five players that added over one million to the wage bill, to do again ahead of playing youngsters we hope can break through would be as stupid as selling Pride Park to yourself then finding out it made no difference at all.

Not saying I agree but, I guess the theory is, get decent loan players in that are good enough to keep us in the championship (not sure how easy they would be to find) and then reset in the summer on the basis a reset whilst still in the championship “might” be easier than in league 1. 

[CornwallRam]

2 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

Just to query some of your observations if you take last seasons final league table then fifteen clubs would have mathematically avoided relegation by having more points at the end of the season then the 3rd bottom club even with having 12 points removed.

If you add another 3 points onto that then the number of clubs who still would have had more points than the 3rd bottom club is still very significant - 13.

So over half of the teams in the  league last season would have had more points than the 3rd bottom club therefore avoiding relegation even with a theoretical 15 points deduction. 

 

 

I think the embargo and the ongoing threat of a points deduction also need to be factored in. Our squad is considerably weaker than it should because of these factors, so our ability to gain points is inhibited. That hasn't been the case for those other teams. 

It might be interesting to add in an embargo weighting to the calculation. Maybe -9?

[RoyMac5]

1 hour ago, i-Ram said:

I am no EFL apologist, but the pelters they are getting when this all really falls at Morris’s door still continues to amaze me. He chose to put the club into Administration not to save us point deductions, but to trigger a sale. He wanted to get out, and retain the multi-millions he still has in investments, property, etc.

I'm no Morris apologist but until we see some figures then the EFL are the ones who have been trying to bury us! 

[CornwallRam]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Question: If we haven't submitted the accounts, as per the EFL's embargo reporting service, how are we being penalised for having failed P&S during the periods where those accounts haven't been submitted?

I reckon it's the same as drink driving. If you fail to provide a sample, you get done anyway. 

[Ghost of Clough]

4 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

I reckon it's the same as drink driving. If you fail to provide a sample, you get done anyway. 

The punishment for not providing them is embargo.

[nick_d]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Question: If we haven't submitted the accounts, as per the EFL's embargo reporting service, how are we being penalised for having failed P&S during the periods where those accounts haven't been submitted?

Didn't we have to submit accounts as part of the Admin Penalty Appeal?

[Comrade 86]

34 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

I think the EFL appear to have treated us shabbily regarding the pace this has all moved, and I have not thought them fit for purpose for somewhile, and particularly since Harvey negotiated such a pisspoor TV deal. What we really don’t know here is how much Morris and Pearce have contributed to the delays. I suspect a lot, and certainly more than many posters on here think (many of whom bizarrely remain pro-Morris). I think the Government does need to get an independent regulator established to give the EFL, and these kind of bunfights which will be come a lot more common in years to come, proper and effective oversight, and for the fans greater transparency.

Having empathy for Mel is not the same as being 'pro-Morris'. Even Mel's most ardent supporters, a faction whose numbers diminish by the day, would admit he has ducked up royally. I retain some sympathy for the man, but that does not infer I'm blind to his failings. This isn't a binary assessment and in the view of many, the EFL have more than amply played their part. 

Once this 'process' is completed, I've little doubt that the truth will out and even less doubt that it will paint either Mel or the EFL in anything close to a favourable light. I'm not blind to Mel's part in this debacle, nor do I believe for one moment that those criticising the EFL are either.

[Ghost of Clough]

1 minute ago, nick_d said:

Didn't we have to submit accounts as part of the Admin Penalty Appeal?

Still embargoed for these reasons:

[Ram-Alf]

11 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

Having empathy for Mel is not the same as being 'pro-Morris'. Even Mel's most ardent supporters, a faction whose numbers diminish by the day, would admit he has ducked up royally. I retain some sympathy for the man, but that does not infer I'm blind to his failings. This isn't a binary assessment and in the view of many, the EFL have more than amply played their part. 

Once this 'process' is completed, I've little doubt that the truth will out and even less doubt that it will paint either Mel or the EFL in anything close to a favourable light. I'm not blind to Mel's part in this debacle, nor do I believe for one moment that those criticising the EFL are either.

I'll agree with that, It's like the compulsive gambler who wants the best for his family, Keeps gambling and gambling for that lucky day that he can go home and tell all that our troubles are over, Unfortunately he kept losing, Lost his family. His home, His friends...but you can't hate him, He was just foolish.

[alram]

29 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

Having empathy for Mel is not the same as being 'pro-Morris'. Even Mel's most ardent supporters, a faction whose numbers diminish by the day, would admit he has ducked up royally. I retain some sympathy for the man, but that does not infer I'm blind to his failings. This isn't a binary assessment and in the view of many, the EFL have more than amply played their part. 

Once this 'process' is completed, I've little doubt that the truth will out and even less doubt that it will paint either Mel or the EFL in anything close to a favourable light. I'm not blind to Mel's part in this debacle, nor do I believe for one moment that those criticising the EFL are either.

Why would any Derby fan have empathy or any kind of positive feelings for Mel Morris? he has burnt the club to the ground!

[alram]

15 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

I'll agree with that, It's like the compulsive gambler who wants the best for his family, Keeps gambling and gambling for that lucky day that he can go home and tell all that our troubles are over, Unfortunately he kept losing, Lost his family. His home, His friends...but you can't hate him, He was just foolish.

What a pathetic excuse for him.

He is running a football club, one that he claimed to love and care for! If you are willing to 'gamble' with it then you should be willing to bail it out when it backfires. It's not a corner shop.

and the point about him losing his home is completely thrown out the window when you know mel morris has made money these past few years, what he has done is nothing but "not my problem anymore, somebody elses"

I cannot believe people continue to defend mel morris, it really is unbelievable to me. I wonder what he would have to actually do for some people to actually think he has no interest in anything but himself.

[alram]

to add on to my points yesterday about the administrators and a reason why i have little faith in them, admin 101 is keep people in the club informed of what is going on. from what i have read and heard there has been no communication between administrators and staff at the club. My deep deep worry is they were after a quick sale before the deductions are finalised to make it still a relatively appealing club to sell. But that is out the window now and a buyer will know what they are getting, which for us is a bad thing. 

[Eddie]

13 minutes ago, alram said:

Why would any Derby fan have empathy or any kind of positive feelings for Mel Morris? he has burnt the club to the ground!

He gambled - with the encouragement of many Derby fans (see transfer threads passim).

The numbers didn't come up. Like many gamblers, he went 'double or quits' on several occasions, and everything spun out of control, so then you end up robbing Peter to pay Paul. Unfortunately, when Peter works for HMRC, you're buggered.

[Philmycock]

Who's the Bamford on the EFL board who's sending Percy all the confidential updates, oh it'll be the Forest or Boro guys then ?

[Ram-Alf]

18 minutes ago, alram said:

What a pathetic excuse for him.

He is running a football club, one that he claimed to love and care for! If you are willing to 'gamble' with it then you should be willing to bail it out when it backfires. It's not a corner shop.

and the point about him losing his home is completely thrown out the window when you know mel morris has made money these past few years, what he has done is nothing but "not my problem anymore, somebody elses"

I cannot believe people continue to defend mel morris, it really is unbelievable to me. I wonder what he would have to actually do for some people to actually think he has no interest in anything but himself.

Do you have nightmares concerning DCFC/MM?

It was no "pathetic excuse for him" it was an analogy which means..."a comparison between one thing and another, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification"

Your angst is pretty alarming fella...unless you're one of the unfortunate ones who lost their job through DCFCs Administration.

 

[May Contain Nuts]

57 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

I'll agree with that, It's like the compulsive gambler who wants the best for his family, Keeps gambling and gambling for that lucky day that he can go home and tell all that our troubles are over, Unfortunately he kept losing, Lost his family. His home, His friends...but you can't hate him, He was just foolish.

Not only gambled, like spending a fortune on lottery tickets and relying the luck of the draw, but gambled competitively.

Gambled in an institution where 3 members each day may as well have the results sheets in front of them before the evening has started, merely needing to memorise them to walk away with the big prize at the end of the night.

Gambled in an institution where some members have cheated their way to a fortune, and yet despite knowing this the house then welcomes them back a few days later with open arms and a tiny fraction of their ill gotten gains as a fine before being handed one of the results sheets mentioned earlier as compensation.

It was a very stupid bet to take on when the odds are so clearly heavily stacked against him, very nearly pulled it off but very nearly counts for poo.

I bet he wishes he's just brazenly cheated now rather than finding other ways to compete, seeing as the institution bizarrely seems to look at this behaviour as the greater of two evils.

Edited November 11, 2021 by Coconut's Beard

[Eatonram]

Surprised the Percy story hasn't gained more traction with other journos.....pehaps not cut and dries as he implied.

[Ram-Alf]

4 minutes ago, Coconut's Beard said:

 

It was a very stupid bet to take on when the odds are so clearly heavily stacked against him, but he very nearly pulled it off.  I bet he wishes he's just brazenly cheated now, rather than finding other ways to compete.

And that's why it's called a Gamble.

[Woodley Ram]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Still embargoed for these reasons:

@Ghost of Clough you seem to be good at looking at accounts, have you ever thought of looking at say Reading and Stokes for a comparison?

[Norman]

29 minutes ago, Eddie said:

He gambled - with the encouragement of many Derby fans (see transfer threads passim).

The numbers didn't come up. Like many gamblers, he went 'double or quits' on several occasions, and everything spun out of control, so then you end up robbing Peter to pay Paul. Unfortunately, when Peter works for HMRC, you're buggered.

Nah, I'm not having this. 

We were told we were right on the line after most of the extravagant spending. Every penny counted. 

Derby fans did not encourage gambling, did not encourage spending what Mel could not afford or have the details on wages and fees paid. There is no blame on Derby fans for that.