Wayne Rooney

[Day]

3 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Pretty moot point as what players will we have by the end of the season?

Hence why it's important to clarify his position, players such as Bird, Knight could obviously play at a higher level, yet if they are on board with Rooney, chances are they will agree to stay.

No FFP in League 1, so no immediate reason to sell, unless players want out 

[Tyler Durden]

Just now, David said:

Hence why it's important to clarify his position, players such as Bird, Knight could obviously play at a higher level, yet if they are on board with Rooney, chances are they will agree to stay.

No FFP in League 1, so no immediate reason to sell, unless players want out 

I think players knowing that Rooney being here or not will have little effect on their desire to stay if they are flogged by the club. 

[Day]

1 minute ago, Tyler Durden said:

I think players knowing that Rooney being here or not will have little effect on their desire to stay if they are flogged by the club. 

Club can't sell a player unless they sign on the dotted line.

[Tyler Durden]

1 minute ago, David said:

Club can't sell a player unless they sign on the dotted line.

Really? I thought that was how we got lumbered with Bradley Johnson who said he didn't want to go to us....

[Day]

2 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Really? I thought that was how we got lumbered with Bradley Johnson who said he didn't want to go to us....

Don't remember that, will take your word for it.

But don't see this need to sell where we would be pushing players out against theirs and the managers wishes.

There would be no point in giving Rooney a contract in that scenario as I don't see him tolerating that at all.

[Tyler Durden]

5 minutes ago, David said:

Don't remember that, will take your word for it.

But don't see this need to sell where we would be pushing players out against theirs and the managers wishes.

There would be no point in giving Rooney a contract in that scenario as I don't see him tolerating that at all.

https://www.pinkun.com/sport/norwich-city/ex-city-midfielder-bradley-johnson-explains-why-he-left-norwich-1835102

[Day]

Just now, Tyler Durden said:

https://www.pinkun.com/sport/norwich-city/ex-city-midfielder-bradley-johnson-explains-why-he-left-norwich-1835102

Out the managers hands.

That can happen, but if you want to keep hold of Rooney, I don't think selling players over his head is the way to go.

Still not sure where this fire sale would be coming from though or why. You don't see Premier League clubs holding fire sales on relegation, so why us into League 1 with no FFP.

Our wage bill will be fairly low given the squad we have. 

Feels like we're playing devils advocate here for the sake of it.

IF Rooney was to sign a new deal, or even stay next season I'm sure it wouldn't be done on the understanding we're going to sell all our assets.

[Jourdan]

18 minutes ago, David said:

It has been earned and no we don't need a circus or distractions, what that has to do with Rooney I don't know.

Any managerial appointment is a risk, there's less risk in sticking with what you have and the players are on board with.

Rooney has instilled a fighting spirit this season, something we will desperately need next season.

Would have been so easy to walk away and hold his head up high, but he stuck with us, incredible really given the circumstances. 

Can't think of anyone I would rather have lead us into next season. Hopefully he still has the hunger for it.

It has been earned? Based on what metric?

1 win in 15 to end last season? Surviving by the skin of our teeth and a late Cardiff intervention? This season, you say? No wins in 7? 3 wins in 17? 20th without deductions?

It is hardly a convincing case. It would be a charitable decision and incredibly sentimental.

Indeed I think there is an element of rose tinted glasses on your part. As I recall, you were fervently pro Rooney from the day he arrived.

Less risk sticking with an inexperienced manager over appointing a more experienced manager? I would say there are pros and cons to both decisions, but logic and evidence suggests going for experience unless Rooney shows great promise, which he hasn’t as yet.

Given the make up of the squad could be drastically different in six or seven months’ time - only 8 players are currently contracted past 2022 - it makes no sense to be wedded to the idea of Rooney being manager or indeed this group of players assembled under Rooney.

Rooney has done some good, we can all agree there. But there are often times when his lack of experience shines through and I think he would have to show much more as a manager for the new owners to stake the club’s future on him.

If we do end up in League One next summer, it would be much more prudent to have a complete reset and let the club be viewed with fresh eyes, both on and off the pitch.

[Day]

Just now, Jourdan said:

It has been earned? Based on what metric?

1 win in 15 to end last season? Surviving by the skin of our teeth and a late Cardiff intervention? This season, you say? No wins in 7? 3 wins in 17? 20th without deductions?

It is hardly a convincing case. It would be a charitable decision and incredibly sentimental.

And where is the context here, doesn't appear to matter.

He's won this out of that, not good enough, get gone.

I just hope the new owner does not view his tenure in such simplistic terms and looks and the whole picture.

[Jimbo Ram]

8 minutes ago, David said:

And where is the context here, doesn't appear to matter.

He's won this out of that, not good enough, get gone.

I just hope the new owner does not view his tenure in such simplistic terms and looks and the whole picture.

Unfortunately at the end of the day he doesn’t win enough football matches. His win rate is just above Phil Brown. 

[Ramos]

10 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Unfortunately at the end of the day he doesn’t win enough football matches. His win rate is just above Phil Brown. 

He also has a combined CB pairing of almost 80 and the best he’s been able to do is bring in a striker who can’t score to compete for a spot with another 35 year old.

Phil brown on the other hand had Tommy smith, idiakez, Seth johnson, michael johnson etc. There’s a lot more context to these comparisons than simply results. Wayne has not had a fair chance at even remotely putting his own team together. 

He will however be under a lot of pressure if he is our manager next season in league one to finally be measured on results - and I won’t be surprised if after say 8 games we don’t look like we are in the top 6 form, there will be a lot of people calling for him to go. 

Edited November 10, 2021 by Ramos

[Rev]

There's no way Wayne will remain our manager in League One. 

His contract would cripple us, for a start, and I bet it doesn't contain a relegation clause.

[Ratpackram]

Has any Derby manager had to deal with anything like Rooney has ? 

Judge him on a level playing field surely. 

When all this madness is over and IF Rooney is still in charge then that's when he should be judged in my opinion 

[Yani P]

I think the fact he has never had what is close to a level playing field to prove himself against is just conveniently ignored by a few..I would like to see what he can do when he has the chance to do the job without ridiculous restrictions..

[twinkletoes]

do we think the 21 points will make him walk? wouldnt balme him one bit

[OoooMarkWright]

I think Derby have had to pay off enough managers over recent years. Rooney has a year left after this, no need to extend it. No point in extending it then sacking him if we’re struggling next year. Pay out would be huge. 

[Jourdan]

23 minutes ago, David said:

And where is the context here, doesn't appear to matter.

He's won this out of that, not good enough, get gone.

I just hope the new owner does not view his tenure in such simplistic terms and looks and the whole picture.

OK, which context is missing?

If football was all about context and making allowances, Nigel Clough would have had a job for life here.

No-one has said Rooney has had an easy job. He hasn’t. But the bottom line is that winning football matches is what counts. Winning football matches will improve our position, not sentiment. 

What have you seen from Rooney that suggests he could rebuild the squad and get us winning matches in League One with the regularity needed to win promotion?

It is taking a shot in the dark quite plainly.

[Jourdan]

13 minutes ago, Ratpackram said:

Has any Derby manager had to deal with anything like Rooney has ? 

Judge him on a level playing field surely. 

When all this madness is over and IF Rooney is still in charge then that's when he should be judged in my opinion 

Who gets a level playing field? In every league, there will be those who have more and those who have less.

Blackpool, Luton, Coventry, Peterborough, Preston, Millwall, Hull and a few others could argue that the Championship is not a level playing field for them, couldn’t they?

Yet it hasn’t stopped them from getting on with things and trying to compete the best way they can. Sometimes to improve those efforts, the manager may be replaced.

Even Sheffield Wednesday on a points deduction last season went through two or three managers trying to compete. It is modern football. Winning is the bottom line.

So why should Rooney have allowances made for him?

[Rev]

23 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

Who gets a level playing field? In every league, there will be those who have more and those who have less.

Blackpool, Luton, Coventry, Peterborough, Preston, Millwall, Hull and a few others could argue that the Championship is not a level playing field for them, couldn’t they?

Yet it hasn’t stopped them from getting on with things and trying to compete the best way they can. Sometimes to improve those efforts, the manager may be replaced.

Even Sheffield Wednesday on a points deduction last season went through two or three managers trying to compete. It is modern football. Winning is the bottom line.

So why should Rooney have allowances made for him?

@Jourdan, I appreciate your posts, and can see your POV. 

In normal circumstances, I'd agree with your analysis of the bare fact's, statistically he's had a terrible record so far.

However, he started off with one hand tied behind his back (lack of experience), then swiftly had the other hand tied up too (lack of finance) in the January window.

We somehow survived the season, more by others failings than our own efforts I grant you, but just when he'd expected the bounds to be released he's had a blindfold placed over his eyes too!

Then after groping around in the dark to pull together a semblance of a squad with half a chance of competing, he's had cotton balls stuffed in his ears too, exposing him for what he is. 

A rookie manager, dealing with the total implosion of the football club he's employed by, and unable to do anything about the situation other than grit his teeth and fight his way through.

He's done that in spades, and faced a situation that I'm convinced other more experienced managers would have walked away from by now.

That he hasn't is praiseworthy enough in itself in my eyes, he's got little to gain in our situation, and an awful lot to lose, yet he keeps on keeping on, keeps fighting for us and our club.

In those circumstances, I'm happy enough to set aside the stats and critique of his tenure, and appreciate that we've got a manager who'll fight for us now, and is playing his part in our survival.

Whatever happens in the future, and however he happened upon his current position, he's our man right here and right now, and imo he's led the club like a Lion.

 

[RoyMac5]

8 minutes ago, Rev said:

Whatever happens in the future, and however he happened upon his current position, he's our man right here and right now, and imo he's led the club like a Lion.

#COYR