Wayne Rooney

[RoyMac5]

4 minutes ago, Andicis said:

28.57% win rate. You wanted Cocu out who had a 32.31% win rate. 

If only Rooney had Martin! ?

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

1 minute ago, Jimbo Ram said:

But he’s learning Andicis, he’s learning.....what he is learning I have no idea whatsoever but Roy Mac thinks he is learning.....

[Andicis]

Just now, RoyMac5 said:

If only Rooney had Martin! ?

If only Cocu had Bielik. And didn't have to pick Rooney to wobble around his midfield. 

[Andicis]

3 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

But he’s learning Andicis, he’s learning.....what he is learning I have no idea whatsoever but Roy Mac thinks he is learning.....

Soon he'll be learning how to manage in league 1! 

[Jimbo Ram]

Just now, RoyMac5 said:

If only Rooney had Martin! ?

Think where Wazza would have been without the Bielik bounce ? Keep going Roy Mac, I admire the fact you repeatedly get torn to shreds but come back with a little whimper ?

[LeedsCityRam]

8 hours ago, Jimbo Ram said:

You were quick enough to want Cocu out who got us on the fringes of the play offs and a tenth place finish. But want to keep Wazza who has a worse record, has won one game in 14 and lost 6 games on the bounce and has us on the brink of relegation. Is it just me or is that a tad odd, hypocritical some might say. What does go on in that head of yours Roy Mac ?

Admire your persistence Jimbo but he has no argument, which is why he keeps ignoring your questions. He's smitten with celebrity, thats the only reason he wants 'patience'...there's certainly no footballing reason for backing Rooney. 

Quite ironic his criticism of Mel because they're both guilty of being blinded by Rooney's status rather than his ability.

8 hours ago, Zag zig said:

B.t.w @LeedsCityRam has just reminded me I half called him out when we was on our strongest run under Rooney, so don’t think I’ve ever been anti him. Just reacting to what I’ve seen since that Cardiff game.

To be fair, you said to judge him over the next 6 games (it was after the 0-3 at Rotherham) & we did indeed get a few results. It only fell apart shortly after that!

[RoyMac5]

Lol. You two boys talking to yourselves. ?

If you think I'm wasting my time arguing with either of you over how come I didn't rate Cocu but do rate Rooney you can keep waiting! ?

But that's not why you're doing it is it, yet again bringing personal comments into the discussion, that your thing isn't it @Jimbo Ram- point scoring. ?

 

[Jimbo Ram]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

Lol. You two boys talking to yourselves. ?

If you think I'm wasting my time arguing with either of you over how come I didn't rate Cocu but do rate Rooney you can keep waiting! ?

But that's not why you're doing it is it, yet again bringing personal comments into the discussion, that your thing isn't it @Jimbo Ram- point scoring. ?

 

No don't come that again RoyMac5, showing up someone who maintains the ludicrous bizarre and double standards position you do for some reason isn't getting personal at all. If you could just explain the reasoning behind your position in layman's terms for an old simpleton like me we could put this all to bed. But you seem unable to do so...I wonder why that is.......

[RoyMac5]

41 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

No don't come that again RoyMac5, showing up someone who maintains the ludicrous bizarre and double standards position you do for some reason isn't getting personal at all. If you could just explain the reasoning behind your position in layman's terms for an old simpleton like me we could put this all to bed. But you seem unable to do so...I wonder why that is.......

 

Thanks. I don't think any of that is necessary. I've already told you my opinion on Cocu and Rooney and why they are different. You cannot accept my reasons - well tough.

But EVERY time you see a chance to call things up again you do just that. Why not give it a rest and talk about football rather than my views on Cocu and Rooney? No you'd rather points score.

Edited May 6, 2021 by RoyMac5

[Jimbo Ram]

20 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

 

Thanks. I don't think any of that is necessary. I've already told you my opinion on Cocu and Rooney and why they are different. You cannot accept my reasons - well tough.

But EVERY time you see a chance to call things up again you do just that. Why not give it a rest and talk about football rather than my views on Cocu and Rooney? No you'd rather points score.

Sorry must have missed your answer. Remind me again ?

[RoyMac5]

Just now, Jimbo Ram said:

Sorry must have missed your answer. Remind me again ?

No. ?

[Jimbo Ram]

25 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

No. ?

Mmmmm, me thinks I missed nothing. This sorry saga Roy Mac reminds me of someone who tells a little white lie that goes on and on, eventually getting bigger and bigger and finally catches up on the person. But it gets to the stage that it has gone on so long, they have taken it that far that the person feels they can’t own up as they will lose face, hence they keep the charade going on however silly it makes them look. My advice to the person in that situation is to own up, admit they got things wrong, much the better option in the circumstances and everyone involved can move on ?

[Nuwtfly]

10 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Mmmmm, me thinks I missed nothing. This sorry saga Roy Mac reminds me of someone who tells a little white lie that goes on and on, eventually getting bigger and bigger and finally catches up on the person. But it gets to the stage that it has gone on so long, they have taken it that far that the person feels they can’t own up as they will lose face, hence they keep the charade going on however silly it makes them look. My advice to the person in that situation is to own up, admit they got things wrong, much the better option in the circumstances and everyone involved can move on ?

To be fair, @RoyMac5has consistently said that he has stuck behind Rooney because he thinks the biggest reason behind this seasons debacle is how poor the squad is. He thinks WR should get an opportunity to build his own side, or at least the amount of windows Cocu got, and has said multiple times that, based on what he did with Bielik, he has enough about him to get a team going with decent enough players.

I may not agree with him, but he has at least been consistent in his reasoning behind supporting Rooney. 

[VulcanRam]

4 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Mmmmm, me thinks I missed nothing. This sorry saga Roy Mac reminds me of someone who tells a little white lie that goes on and on, eventually getting bigger and bigger and finally catches up on the person. But it gets to the stage that it has gone on so long, they have taken it that far that the person feels they can’t own up as they will lose face, hence they keep the charade going on however silly it makes them look. My advice to the person in that situation is to own up, admit they got things wrong, much the better option in the circumstances and everyone involved can move on ?

I don't know what @Roymac reasons are, but I agree that Cocu had to go and Rooney, at the moment, deserves to stay. I'll offer you some reasons: 

Comparing win rate is unfair given that one had a season and a quarter and one has had half a season. David Lowe had a 100% win record when he took over for the Man U semi final a few years ago. Does it make him the best DCFC manager ever? 

Cocu had to go because while he started ok, and only ok, the end of last season / start of this season's form was horrendous. The players clearly weren't buying it. We were bottom of the table. The football was dire. It was the right decision.

Under Rooney, the initial bounce saw us win games and move up the table. The last 16 game or so have been awful. The football is terrible and the players look shot and devoid of, frankly, anything. 

The only two things Rooney has in his corner at the moment are that he has removed a team from the bottom and we might yet stay up. The second, which is important, is that Cocu bought in his own coaching team while Rooney has had to deal with having Rosenior, Given and Walker foisted upon him, which has proven to be a failed project. Two bits of mitigation which I'd say just about, and only just, keep Rooney afloat.

If we stay up, he deserves a crack at it again next season but only with the caveat of him having his own team, with some proper experience, around him.  If we start with the same coaching setup next year, forget it.

If we go down, he's toast as far as I'm concerned as he's failed in his remit, just like Cocu was doing. 

 

[RadioactiveWaste]

4 minutes ago, VulcanRam said:

I don't know what @Roymac reasons are, but I agree that Cocu had to go and Rooney, at the moment, deserves to stay. I'll offer you some reasons: 

Comparing win rate is unfair given that one had a season and a quarter and one has had half a season. David Lowe had a 100% win record when he took over for the Man U semi final a few years ago. Does it make him the best DCFC manager ever? 

Cocu had to go because while he started ok, and only ok, the end of last season / start of this season's form was horrendous. The players clearly weren't buying it. We were bottom of the table. The football was dire. It was the right decision.

Under Rooney, the initial bounce saw us win games and move up the table. The last 16 game or so have been awful. The football is terrible and the players look shot and devoid of, frankly, anything. 

The only two things Rooney has in his corner at the moment are that he has removed a team from the bottom and we might yet stay up. The second, which is important, is that Cocu bought in his own coaching team while Rooney has had to deal with having Rosenior, Given and Walker foisted upon him, which has proven to be a failed project. Two bits of mitigation which I'd say just about, and only just, keep Rooney afloat.

If we stay up, he deserves a crack at it again next season but only with the caveat of him having his own team, with some proper experience, around him.  If we start with the same coaching setup next year, forget it.

If we go down, he's toast as far as I'm concerned as he's failed in his remit, just like Cocu was doing. 

 

Good post, well made points.

I disagree, yes, it's a rum hand he was dealt but he's then played it pretty badly and the sheer lack of belief in the team says to me he's not gonna make it here.

For me, I want him gone after Saturday even if we stay up, but it's a point for discussion.

[RoyMac5]

16 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

I may not agree with him, but he has at least been consistent in his reasoning behind supporting Rooney. 

G'wan! You know you want to! ?

[RoyMac5]

18 minutes ago, VulcanRam said:

If we stay up, he deserves a crack at it again next season but only with the caveat of him having his own team, with some proper experience, around him.  If we start with the same coaching setup next year, forget it.

Yeah, I could go along with that. 

11 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

I disagree, yes, it's a rum hand he was dealt but he's then played it pretty badly and the sheer lack of belief in the team says to me he's not gonna make it here.

Lots of the 'lack of belief' will be gone next season? Literally?! Think mental attitude is a real tough one, you only have to compare Byrne's two halves against Swansea and wonder what was going on in his head. #COYR

[Jimbo Ram]

22 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

To be fair, @RoyMac5has consistently said that he has stuck behind Rooney because he thinks the biggest reason behind this seasons debacle is how poor the squad is. He thinks WR should get an opportunity to build his own side, or at least the amount of windows Cocu got, and has said multiple times that, based on what he did with Bielik, he has enough about him to get a team going with decent enough players.

I may not agree with him, but he has at least been consistent in his reasoning behind supporting Rooney. 

I agree Roy Mac has been consistent in his support for Wazza, but the whole point is that that is totally inconsistent and at odds with his stance on Cocu. He was one of the most vocal on here saying Cocu had to go. Why? Because results were bad, performances were poor, the football was unattractive and boring etc etc etc. Both Cocu and Wazza were dealt poor hands, nobody is denying that. Due to the delay in Lampard leaving on taking over Cocu had next to no time in terms of a pre season and no real time to bring in that many new players. We had lost the 3 quality loans and the squad was thin. His remit was to integrate a number of academy players which he did and got them performing well, particularly Jason Knight and Louis Sibley, generating some interest from bigger clubs. Despite these challenges, coming in to March in his first season, Cocu got us on the fringes of the play off places, 5 or 6 wins on the bounce. He too was hit by injuries and we faltered at the end. I can remember at one point in the WBA away defeat we had 8 or 9 academy players on the pitch during the game, but we still finish 10th. Then we have the very poor start to the new season and Cocu is sacked, something Roy Mac had been demanding for a very long time. We are bottom of the table so one would think that experience would be called for, maybe Steve Mac back to the end of the season, Paul Cook maybe. But no, Mel in his wisdom goes for a rookie manager, a novice with next to no coaching experience and no management experience whatsoever. Wazza is appointed. 

For many the alarm bells are ringing. What transpires? Wazza, despite an initial bounce (perhaps it was a coincidence that the period of the bounce coincides with Bielik's return, perhaps that's the cynic in me and Cocu had no Bielik), gradually we see results and performances deteriorate, there seems no leadership on or off the pitch, Wazza doesn't seem to have a Plan B like other Managers (eg Bowyer), he seems tactically inept, he puts a reserve side out away at Cardiff, fails to use substitutes effectively, openly criticises players. So where does Wazza's leadership leave us? One win in 14 games, six losses on the bounce, on the brink of relegation. So my simple question to Roy Mac is surely the same logic for you being very vocal on here in calling for Cocu to go now applies to Wazza, if not more so? His record is actually worse than Cocu's. I ask you Roy Mac, have results improved, have performances improved, can you see a style of play developing, are we good to watch, has he successfully brought on the youngsters? Why when using the same criteria did you repeatedly call for Cocu to go but now are one of the last man standing in wanting Wazza to stay? Just answer me and we can move on...

[Rammy03]

57 minutes ago, VulcanRam said:

I don't know what @Roymac reasons are, but I agree that Cocu had to go and Rooney, at the moment, deserves to stay. I'll offer you some reasons: 

Comparing win rate is unfair given that one had a season and a quarter and one has had half a season. David Lowe had a 100% win record when he took over for the Man U semi final a few years ago. Does it make him the best DCFC manager ever? 

Cocu had to go because while he started ok, and only ok, the end of last season / start of this season's form was horrendous. The players clearly weren't buying it. We were bottom of the table. The football was dire. It was the right decision.

Under Rooney, the initial bounce saw us win games and move up the table. The last 16 game or so have been awful. The football is terrible and the players look shot and devoid of, frankly, anything. 

The only two things Rooney has in his corner at the moment are that he has removed a team from the bottom and we might yet stay up. The second, which is important, is that Cocu bought in his own coaching team while Rooney has had to deal with having Rosenior, Given and Walker foisted upon him, which has proven to be a failed project. Two bits of mitigation which I'd say just about, and only just, keep Rooney afloat.

If we stay up, he deserves a crack at it again next season but only with the caveat of him having his own team, with some proper experience, around him.  If we start with the same coaching setup next year, forget it.

If we go down, he's toast as far as I'm concerned as he's failed in his remit, just like Cocu was doing. 

 

I totally agree. In my opinion, there are bigger problems at the football club than wayne Rooney. There is no point in changing manager again. If we win on Saturday, give him some resources and let's see what he can do.

[Kingpin]

2 minutes ago, Rammy03 said:

. If we win on Saturday, give him some resources and let's see what he can do

Let’s not. Please.