Rammy03 Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 46 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: To be fair,I had really forgot about that early period of 4-3-3 with sibbers and bielik and yes you are right,it did look much better but it seemed to be a brief patch sadly as we went away from that embryonic system (which I perhaps put down to Macs early influence and advice to wayne) and it all became a bit if a mess. It started falling apart when we kept changing our playing style and formation to match up to other teams. Bielik aside, when we let teams worry about us, we played our best stuff. norwichram, r_wilcockson, mwram1973 and 6 others 3 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 45 minutes ago, Rammy03 said: It started falling apart when we kept changing our playing style and formation to match up to other teams. Bielik aside, when we let teams worry about us, we played our best stuff. Thing settng up to stop the opponent was pretty much Rooney's MO from the off. Even the switch to a 433 from a 4231 was to counter Swansea and we quickly dropped. The only thing that happened is the changes got bigger and more exagerated over time, which I strongly suspect had a destabilising effect. Jimbo Ram and Rammy03 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 1 hour ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: To be fair,I had really forgot about that early period of 4-3-3 with sibbers and bielik and yes you are right,it did look much better but it seemed to be a brief patch sadly as we went away from that embryonic system (which I perhaps put down to Macs early influence and advice to wayne) and it all became a bit if a mess. It was brief, I suspect we got there by accident more than design and we didn't stick to or take any lessons from doing it. We were soon back to putting Knight at 10...... kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 On 26/04/2021 at 07:52, ck- said: The difficulty for any appointment is that if it goes wrong, the hindsight experts come out in droves. Not aimed at you @mr kia, just a general observation. If he is given a 1 year contract to prove himself, and does really well he’d be targeted by others. Cue criticism for not locking him down when it was “obvious he was going to be a success” if he does badly on a 3 year contract, well then “It’s naive to give a long contract to an inexperienced manager” I suppose the compromise is a 1 year deal, with enforceable extensions of say 1 or 2 years to at least ensure decent compensation (a la Lampard) if he is a success. Contract until end of season with guaranteed single year extension based on meeting performance targets? Don't need to be Captain Hindsight to know that giving him a 2 and half year gig was bonkers. Zag zig, Andicis, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong and 4 others 2 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 1 hour ago, Rammy03 said: It started falling apart when we kept changing our playing style and formation to match up to other teams. Bielik aside, when we let teams worry about us, we played our best stuff. It didn't. That policy actually started our recovery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 8 minutes ago, sage said: It didn't. That policy actually started our recovery. Whilst I think whether our recovery was down to that is very debatable. It was there from though off. Although I'd say the changes got a lot more exagerrated in feel after Bielik's injury and we brought in the loan players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 18 minutes ago, brady1993 said: Whilst I think whether our recovery was down to that is very debatable. It was there from though off. Although I'd say the changes got a lot more exagerrated in feel after Bielik's injury and we brought in the loan players i think this is case of Brian Clough's '3 points shuts everyone up' When it worked, it was great tactics, when it didn't it wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 48 minutes ago, sage said: i think this is case of Brian Clough's '3 points shuts everyone up' When it worked, it was great tactics, when it didn't it wasn't. Eeh I get what you are saying but there has been few instances where I've personally thought how we set up was a big reason why we got the result and generally it's been varying degrees of keep it tight and hope to nick something. Overall though even with your argument, he's got it wrong more than he has right. Jimbo Ram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 1 hour ago, sage said: i think this is case of Brian Clough's '3 points shuts everyone up' When it worked, it was great tactics, when it didn't it wasn't. It didn't work for very long tho did it,those 3 points have been spread very thinly through this season Rammy03 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 41 minutes ago, brady1993 said: Eeh I get what you are saying but there has been few instances where I've personally thought how we set up was a big reason why we got the result and generally it's been varying degrees of keep it tight and hope to nick something. Overall though even with your argument, he's got it wrong more than he has right. But was it the tactics that were right then wrong? Maybe just the injuries mounted up, a couple of the young players had played too much and we had no depth of squad. Plus the uncertainty of everything. When things go wrong, it's to easy to point at one thing, when often there are 6 or 7 significant factors. uttoxram75 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Sheriff Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 Always felt Mcclaren only had a Plan A and was happy to see him go both times. I felt some squads should have been getting top 2 and he perhaps underachieved with us. I see him as a fantastic coach but not so great of a manager. However i was looking yesterday at win percentages and he has a very impressive record - one of our top managers. So statistically for Derby he has been very good so i am now in two minds about a possibility of a MAC3 not sure how much involvement he is having with Rooney. Rooney always seems to shut down any suggestions of Mcclaren helping out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elwood P Dowd Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 (edited) I am sure Rooney has lots of Tactical knowledge however, I think the real skill lies in when to apply those tactics and I am not sure that Rooney has learnt that skill yet. In a number of games this season Rooney's changes in tactics have made matters worse. For all McClarens faults I think he knew, in the majority of cases, when a change was required, what change was needed and when to make it. Edited April 30, 2021 by Elwood P Dowd TheresOnlyWanChope, Ramarena and kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Elwood P Dowd said: I am sure Rooney has lots of Tactical knowledge however, I think the real skill lies in when to apply those tactics and I am not sure that Rooney has learnt that skill yet. In a number of games this season Rooney's changes in tactics have made matters worse. For all McClarens faults I think he knew, in the majority of cases, when a change was required, what change was needed and when to make it. It really helped (and Mac said this himself) having Simmo as his assistant. He really encouraged Mac to attack. Rosenior seems a 'lovely bloke', but is he what Rooney needs as an assistant? Never thought Mac2 and Powell were on quite the same page either. Steeley was pretty good to have around too, but maybe Given fits well there? Edited April 30, 2021 by RoyMac5 Andrew3000, TheresOnlyWanChope and r_wilcockson 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteHorseRam Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 37 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: 'lovely bloke' We always seem to have a lot of these. I have often wondered whether the manager we seek to get real results won't be a 'lovely bloke.' Lee Bowyer - I am sure he is a good bloke, but I don't' think he does much arm-around-the-shoulders lovely bloke thing at work. I doubt whether Clough did 'lovely bloke' either on the touchline. Rammy03 and r_wilcockson 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 13 minutes ago, WhiteHorseRam said: We always seem to have a lot of these. I have often wondered whether the manager we seek to get real results won't be a 'lovely bloke.' Lee Bowyer - I am sure he is a good bloke, but I don't' think he does much arm-around-the-shoulders lovely bloke thing at work. I doubt whether Clough did 'lovely bloke' either on the touchline. No but in Clough's case Taylor was that bloke. Don't want a Pearson-type manager thanks. Was really trying to suggest that maybe Rosenior isn't what Rooney needs as a assistant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Ram Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 1 hour ago, The_Sheriff said: Always felt Mcclaren only had a Plan A and was happy to see him go both times. I felt some squads should have been getting top 2 and he perhaps underachieved with us. I see him as a fantastic coach but not so great of a manager. However i was looking yesterday at win percentages and he has a very impressive record - one of our top managers. So statistically for Derby he has been very good so i am now in two minds about a possibility of a MAC3 not sure how much involvement he is having with Rooney. Rooney always seems to shut down any suggestions of Mcclaren helping out. Wish we could have Mac back and see him get it wrong again some more..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 9 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said: Wish we could have Mac back and see him get it wrong again some more..... What, more wrong than now? Ramarena 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheresOnlyWanChope Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 16 hours ago, Rammy03 said: It started falling apart when we kept changing our playing style and formation to match up to other teams. Bielik aside, when we let teams worry about us, we played our best stuff. I don’t think we have the players to just do this... we can’t pick a settled team because of injuries and lack of squad depth not to mention players underperforming. David Graham Brown 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheresOnlyWanChope Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 2 hours ago, The_Sheriff said: Always felt Mcclaren only had a Plan A and was happy to see him go both times. I felt some squads should have been getting top 2 and he perhaps underachieved with us. I see him as a fantastic coach but not so great of a manager. However i was looking yesterday at win percentages and he has a very impressive record - one of our top managers. So statistically for Derby he has been very good so i am now in two minds about a possibility of a MAC3 not sure how much involvement he is having with Rooney. Rooney always seems to shut down any suggestions of Mcclaren helping out. Loved Mac. Felt injuries cost is in that first season. I don’t know how he would be considered a great coach and bad manager? As you said his win percentage is impressive. He’s also had some notable achievements as a manager as well as coach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Ram Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 6 minutes ago, GboroRam said: What, more wrong than now? Oh dear, let me keep it simple, I would love Mac back ? Ramarena, Indyram, GboroRam and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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